Is Cakewalk gaining users/popularity with Bandlab?

[Some Guy]

42 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

I got the Samplitude Pro Suite X3 way back, because it also came with Sound Forge Pro 11.... and it's one of the reasons I didn't upgrade to the Pro X4 Suite.

SoundForge is now at version 13, and they're still selling the Samplitude Pro X4 Suite with SF v 11.

I do use SoundForge, but I hardly use Samplitude - it's a good DAW, but I've got CbB set up more or less how I want it, and it's one of the few DAW's that support the Mackie C4.

I'm currently using Audio Studio 12 for Wave Editing, and Pro 11 - despite only being 32-Bit - is still way better, with far superior plug-ins.  So it being an old version doesn't matter, as it's still going to be a sizeable upgrade, for me.  I don't really need VST3 or 64-Bit support in it.  It's kind of meant as a companion to Samplitude, anyways.  For Sample Editing and Loop Creation, etc.  Otherwise no one would buy Sound Forge for $400 if you can get it bundled with Samplitude  for $5-600 ?

Bundled version will probably go to 12 on next Samp release.

I like the instruments that MAGIX ships with Samp, and the Suite version comes with the 70GB Independence Library.  Mostly interested in doing some digital compositions (and getting better at it) and recording the audio for my short films better.  With that, I probably would just have to install the stuff and not have to worry about scouring the web for add-ons.

$149 for that package is tempting...

[yeto]

I am new at this and I have tried Studio One, MuLab, Tracktion 6, LMMS, Audacity, BandLab and CakeWalk.

I found BandLab to be the easiest (almost too easy) to use but had to move over to CakeWalk (2nd easiest) as I couldn't find a way to do triplets with BandLab and I couldn't get a good bass guitar sound with BandLab's built in instruments. I know there are work arounds for both problems but Cakewalk takes care of both issues without going outside of the program.

Three updates I would like to see in BandLab would be:

1) SI-Bass Guitar instrument
2) ability to do triplets
3) when using piano roll view I would like for the notes to show on the keyboard and by the cursor.

Until these changes are made I will stick with CakeWalk as I am now making music with the help of this great forum which I think is another plus for CakeWalk. I don't think BandLab has a forum. 

[Tezza]

This whole popularity thing is also driven by genre and "what's happening now". At the moment Electronic music (in the box) production is driving the industry, the concept is, anyone can become a star overnight if you just buy Ableton Live suite and sit down at a computer. You don't need to know anything about music at all, just move your mouse, twiddle dials, press buttons and you will become a millionaire star DJ overnight.

The majority of young people buy DAW's with these high hopes and then after having them for 2 weeks to 3 months, they find out how complex the whole process really is, they then move on to something else, just using their DAW as a hobby occasionally or not at all. We can call them "EM newbies". Some of these have some success at electronic music production where they may become semi or fully professional with their songs. We can call these "EM artists".

The others might be engineers who want a DAW to record others in their home studio etc, they might be making money from a studio or have hopes to, we can call these "Engineers". The last group would be singer/musician songwriters who can play instruments and or sing and want to mainly record their own instruments and songs. We can call these "musician songwriters".

The DAW market is driven mainly by EM newbies and EM artists. Musician/songwriters are probably next and then engineers in terms of popularity.

DAW's try to cover all of these different needs in one DAW but it doesn't work really. The EM people are going to get Ableton, Bitwig or  Fruity Loops etc, they may try Studio One or Mixcraft. The Musician/Songwriters are likely to get Cubase or Studio One or Protools/Logic. The Engineers will get Protools Studio one or Logic.

The question is where does Cakewalk fit in here, my view is that it fits mainly in the musician/songwriter category and it does that category better than any other DAW.

Everything is there to produce your songs easily and to support hardware instruments. However, there are only a certain amount of musician/songwriters.

It can also fit in the engineer category.

Studio One tries to get a bite of every cherry and probably has some success at that. I think that Cakewalk should go after the Musician/Songwriter category mainly, it may not be the most popular category but seems to be more relevant to Cakewalk than the other categories.

 

[pbognar]

13 hours ago, Tezza said:

This whole popularity thing is also driven by genre and "what's happening now". At the moment Electronic music (in the box) production is driving the industry, the concept is, anyone can become a star overnight if you just buy Ableton Live suite and sit down at a computer. You don't need to know anything about music at all, just move your mouse, twiddle dials, press buttons and you will become a millionaire star DJ overnight.

The majority of young people buy DAW's with these high hopes and then after having them for 2 weeks to 3 months, they find out how complex the whole process really is, they then move on to something else, just using their DAW as a hobby occasionally or not at all. We can call them "EM newbies". Some of these have some success at electronic music production where they may become semi or fully professional with their songs. We can call these "EM artists".

The others might be engineers who want a DAW to record others in their home studio etc, they might be making money from a studio or have hopes to, we can call these "Engineers". The last group would be singer/musician songwriters who can play instruments and or sing and want to mainly record their own instruments and songs. We can call these "musician songwriters".

The DAW market is driven mainly by EM newbies and EM artists. Musician/songwriters are probably next and then engineers in terms of popularity.

DAW's try to cover all of these different needs in one DAW but it doesn't work really. The EM people are going to get Ableton, Bitwig or  Fruity Loops etc, they may try Studio One or Mixcraft. The Musician/Songwriters are likely to get Cubase or Studio One or Protools/Logic. The Engineers will get Protools Studio one or Logic.

The question is where does Cakewalk fit in here, my view is that it fits mainly in the musician/songwriter category and it does that category better than any other DAW.

Everything is there to produce your songs easily and to support hardware instruments. However, there are only a certain amount of musician/songwriters.

It can also fit in the engineer category.

Studio One tries to get a bite of every cherry and probably has some success at that. I think that Cakewalk should go after the Musician/Songwriter category mainly, it may not be the most popular category but seems to be more relevant to Cakewalk than the other categories.

 

+1  Would love to see a chord track (affecting polyphonic audio), analysis, and assistant.

[chuckebaby]

14 hours ago, Tezza said:

I think that Cakewalk should go after the Musician/Songwriter category mainly, it may not be the most popular category but seems to be more relevant to Cakewalk than the other categories.

I would agree with that 100%. Also agree with your analogy of Electronic music dreamers. But we all started somewhere, so I have to respect that.

The mid life crisis group are almost always musician/songwriters. These are the same people who also know how to save money (and spend).

I latched on to Cakewalk early like a slew of others did. Those users have stayed loyal to the product for years.

 

[Some Guy]

 

Quote

The DAW market is driven mainly by EM newbies and EM artists. Musician/songwriters are probably next and then engineers in terms of popularity.

The DAW Market is huge and EM is only a part of it:

• EDM
• Digital Composition (i.e. the people who want to learn how to compose, but don't have an Orchestra on hand to use as their guinea pigs)
• Singer/Songwriters who want to play guitar and sing into the microphone
• Mix Engineers
• Videographers who can't afford to pay a  third party ^ to do all of this work.
• Sound Designers
• Athletes, Coaches, and Chreographers who have to cut music for performances - something that two track editors like Sound Forge are actually not as good for as many people may think (Audition do work well, Audacity is awful when it comes to Noise Reduction, Retiming, and Pitch Changes - for obvious reasons). 

There are lots of DAWs, and while some are designed for the broader market, many of them do target specific niches within the broader market - and excel doing so.  Ableton Live is one of those products, which is why it is a de facto recommendation to people who want to do EDM and Live Performances.

Quote

DAW's try to cover all of these different needs in one DAW but it doesn't work really. The EM people are going to get Ableton, Bitwig or  Fruity Loops etc, they may try Studio One or Mixcraft. The Musician/Songwriters are likely to get Cubase or Studio One or Protools/Logic. The Engineers will get Protools Studio one or Logic.

It does work well.  That's why those DAWs survived and Cakewalk died.  Studio One is even a newer product, so there is actually room in the market to carve success out.  The difference is that many of them simply had better Product Managers than Cakewalk did, better investment from the parent companies, and much better development pace and code maintenance.

Other DAWs are catching up and surpassing Cakewalk in the areas where it was traditionally strong, while still keeping their competitive advantages intact. 

A lot of momentum for different DAWs also has to do with market conditions.  If you live in a market where everyone uses Ableton, then the chances of you using anything else are much less.  If you have to collaborate with other artists, then you need to be compatible.  Cakewalk is quite weak in this area, and there are very few reasons for anyone to bother switching off of their current DAW to Cakewalk.

Quote

The question is where does Cakewalk fit in here, my view is that it fits mainly in the musician/songwriter category and it does that category better than any other DAW.

Everything is there to produce your songs easily and to support hardware instruments. However, there are only a certain amount of musician/songwriters.

It can also fit in the engineer category.

Studio One tries to get a bite of every cherry and probably has some success at that. I think that Cakewalk should go after the Musician/Songwriter category mainly, it may not be the most popular category but seems to be more relevant to Cakewalk than the other categories.

It's completely expected that you will say this, because Cakewalk hasn't been well developed the past few years.  This leaves it with fairly obvious workflow and functionality holes, so it will naturally be fit more  in the markets that ask less of that  from it.

No AAF/EDL Support.  Mediocre Video Support.  Laggy and Mediocre Notation and Score Editor.  "Bring Your Own Stuff" packaging that makes it most useful for the types of people who need the least amount of stuff out-of-the-box, etc.

Then the statement about Studio One completely contradicts your earlier quoted statement.

I would finish off the bolded sentence with "who find the Cakewalk by BandLab to be an appealing choice."

Also the patronizing tone of your post isn't appreciated.  Fortunately, you weren't around to talk at Mozart.

Edited May 13, 2019 by SomeGuy

[Some Guy]

4 hours ago, Chuck E Baby said:

I would agree with that 100%. Also agree with your analogy of Electronic music dreamers. But we all started somewhere, so I have to respect that.

The mid life crisis group are almost always musician/songwriters. These are the same people who also know how to save money (and spend).

I latched on to Cakewalk early like a slew of others did. Those users have stayed loyal to the product for years.

 

1.  The best way to learn is by doing.  If that means they start off creating the type of music they, themselves, like... why not? 

Daft Punk isn't going to start doing Country just because some bitter old people on the Cakewalk forums are tired of EDM, and/or would prefer "most young people" look up to someone who does something other than the current in-fad music genre.  The only reason why this is even discussed is because that market is already dominated by a few DAWs that cater to it, anyways.  Cakewalk isn't one of them, and this is the only reason why those people, and that genre seem to be spoken about with such disdain by a choice few...

There are still tons of other niches where Cakewalk could have made inroads, but even in those areas the feature development simply isn't there.  You can't fit a square peg through a round hole.

2.  Young people know how to save and spend money, as well.  This is less of an issue, due to the decrease in price for Pro DAWs.  MAGIX is routinely selling Samplitude Pro Suite for $149.  You can get Pro NLEs for Free or $25 (Humble Bundle)-$299 Perpetual Costs.  Most Pro DAWs have lower-end SKUs and will give you upgrade pricing to the full thing later on, allowing you to pay nothing but the difference in cost between the two (PreSonus, MAGIX,  etc.).  Affinity sells Graphics design software for $50, which could easily have sold for $400 in the late 90s/early 2000s.

You can put together an entire suite of creative tools, pro level, for dirt cheap these days.

I think people are severely underestimating just how affordable this stuff is.  Computers are also more powerful at lower price points than they used to be.  You can get budget i7 Laptops now, which would have cost over two grand in 2004/5 (for an equivalent machine, back then).

3.  The people who latched onto Cakewalk early, and he people who are industry professionals are going to think the way Tezza does because that is a captured market.  Competitors went after it hard when they announced the shutdown of the product, becuase that forces people off of the product.  However, they aren't caring about the fact that they have a "Free" competitor, because they have already leeched off all of the users worth anything (as in, those most likely to invest more money into their own ecosystem).

Once people get established in the market, they are not going to see much value in switching software.  That is what people do when they're establishing their workflow and their career - as different software do appeal to different people, markets, workflows, and even music genres.

Those "young people" are no different than anyone else.  They want to make specific type of music, and those options are strongest for that. 

And those products have much cheaper SKUs than Ableton Live Suite ?

Edited May 13, 2019 by SomeGuy

[Tezza]

34 minutes ago, SomeGuy said:

 

The DAW Market is huge and EM is only a part of it:

• EDM
• Digital Composition (i.e. the people who want to learn how to compose, but don't have an Orchestra on hand to use as their guinea pigs)
• Singer/Songwriters who want to play guitar and sing into the microphone
• Mix Engineers
• Videographers who can't afford to pay a  third party ^ to do all of this work.
• Sound Designers
• Athletes, Coaches, and Chreographers who have to cut music for performances - something that two track editors like Sound Forge are actually not as good for as many people may think (Audition do work well, Audacity is awful when it comes to Noise Reduction, Retiming, and Pitch Changes - for obvious reasons). 

There are lots of DAWs, and while some are designed for the broader market, many of them do target specific niches within the broader market - and excel doing so.  Ableton Live is one of those products, which is why it is a de facto recommendation to people who want to do EDM and Live Performances.

It does work well.  That's why those DAWs survived and Cakewalk died.  Studio One is even a newer product, so there is actually room in the market to carve success out.  The difference is that many of them simply had better Product Managers than Cakewalk did, better investment from the parent companies, and much better development pace and code maintenance.

Other DAWs are catching up and surpassing Cakewalk in the areas where it was traditionally strong, while still keeping their competitive advantages intact. 

A lot of momentum for different DAWs also has to do with market conditions.  If you live in a market where everyone uses Ableton, then the chances of you using anything else are much less.  If you have to collaborate with other artists, then you need to be compatible.  Cakewalk is quite weak in this area, and there are very few reasons for anyone to bother switching off of their current DAW to Cakewalk.

It's completely expected that you will say this, because Cakewalk hasn't been well developed the past few years.  This leaves it with fairly obvious workflow and functionality holes, so it will naturally be fit more  in the markets that ask less of that  from it.

No AAF/EDL Support.  Mediocre Video Support.  Laggy and Mediocre Notation and Score Editor.  "Bring Your Own Stuff" packaging that makes it most useful for the types of people who need the least amount of stuff out-of-the-box, etc.

Then the statement about Studio One completely contradicts your earlier quoted statement.

I would finish off the bolded sentence with "who find the Cakewalk by BandLab to be an appealing choice."

Also the patronizing tone of your post isn't appreciated.

Patronizing tone? what are you talking about? Please explain where I have been patronizing.

I'm looking at the main users of DAW's. Athletes and coaches and choreographers really do not shape the DAW market. Neither do videographers really.

"That's why those DAWs survived and Cakewalk died."

Cakewalk hasn't died, it's only just started???

"Cakewalk is quite weak in this area, and there are very few reasons for anyone to bother switching off of their current DAW to Cakewalk."

Not correct at all, I've switched from Studio One to Cakewalk and am enjoying it. I don't know what the numbers of people who are changing DAW's are but then again, neither do you. There are many good things about Cakewalk that would attract other DAW users.

"Cakewalk hasn't been well developed the past few years."

I think they have been doing a great job developing Cakewalk, why would you even say this, it's only a couple of years old?

"This leaves it with fairly obvious workflow and functionality holes"

What "obvious holes"? I switched to Cakewalk because I prefer the workflow, it does some things differently to other DAW's but that is just difference between DAW's.

"No AAF/EDL Support.  Mediocre Video Support.  Laggy and Mediocre Notation and Score Editor"

No AAF/EDL support isn't relevant to me nor 90% of the population that use DAW's, mediocre video support is normal for DAW's, have you seen Studio One's black screen bug? Laggy? I am not finding that, Mediocre notation and score editor, that is because it is aimed at simple songwriting, not orchestral needs, no other DAW has this built in as well, you have to buy in extra and even in Cubase, you cannot put your lyrics straight in.

"Then the statement about Studio One completely contradicts your earlier quoted statement."

I have no idea what you are saying here.

You seem to be wanting to start a fight. You also have a lot of negative things to say about Cakewalk, a lot of it doesn't make sense. You also seem to enjoy attacking people who say good things about Cakewalk, are you Chenobyl Studio's under another identity?

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Tezza

[Some Guy]

 Your entire post, and the way you reference "young people" is patronizing.  Clearly, one as old and wise as yourself can see this?  It comes across as incredibly condescending.

4 hours ago, Tezza said:

Athletes and coaches and choreographers really do not shape the DAW market. Neither do videographers really.

Quote me where I stated they did, and I will take this statement seriously.  What they do is contribute to the DAW market by buying software licenses, which allow developers to license better tech and invest more into R&D to create and deliver better  projects and updates.  They also exist, so naturally products that care about those niches have to deliver on their requirements.

And DAWs like Nuendo and Sequoia market heavily at the high end post production industry (Cubase and Samplitude and basically* lower end SKUs of those products).  Digital Performer (which has great video support, BTW) is has been developed to cater very well to that market as well, with superb support for that kind of work.  You are looking at this through foggy glasses of bias.  Because you do not care about those markets, you speak of them as if they are completely non-factor.

Just because You and "90% of people who use DAWs" (tend to have a lot of  confidence for someone quick to point out what other people do not know) don't care about something doesn't mean that the company developing the software don't want to sell it to the tens of thousands of people who do...

4 hours ago, Tezza said:

"That's why those DAWs survived and Cakewalk died."

Cakewalk hasn't died, it's only just started???

Lol...  What?  Where have you been over the past few years?  Not all of us are completely stupid, and have convinced ourselves that BandLab buying it on a steep discount (after Gibson literally killing it off) makes it some brand new entry on the market.  It's Cakewalk SONAR, with slightly changed branding and a few bugfix updates...

4 hours ago, Tezza said:

"Cakewalk is quite weak in this area, and there are very few reasons for anyone to bother switching off of their current DAW to Cakewalk."

Not correct at all, I've switched from Studio One to Cakewalk and am enjoying it. I don't know what the numbers of people who are changing DAW's are but then again, neither do you. There are many good things about Cakewalk that would attract other DAW users.

The people who change DAWs tend to be upstarts looking for a DAW that fits them.  Once they establish themselves, they tend to change less.  Change is disruptive, and actual professionals do not change for the sake of change.   Hype is not as effective, there.  What you're bloviating about in the OP is normal, and the market has always been this way.  When SONAR was more "popular," it benefitted greatly from this.

There are very few reasons for anyone to bother switching off their current DAW to Cakewalk.  Telling me I'm wrong isn't going to cut it.  Tell me why I'm wrong.  What actual competitive advantages - that isn't just your opinion - does Cakewalk actually have over the competition .  There are very few, if any.

"I like the workflow" is the DAW user equivalent to Apple users saying "I like the UI" when people compare Windows and macOS.  It literally means nothing, and anything at the same time.  It's a failsafe.

4 hours ago, Tezza said:

"Cakewalk hasn't been well developed the past few years."

I think they have been doing a great job developing Cakewalk, why would you even say this, it's only a couple of years old?

What BandLab has done is barely anything.  They have fixed a few bugs, added a feature here or there, and changed some optiosn around.  The last few years  of development has been quite wanting.  The change logs are publicly available for all to see...  Again, Cakewalk is not "only a couple of years old, " except to delusional people.

4 hours ago, Tezza said:

What "obvious holes"?

Doing things differently is different from missing features/capabilities, and the inability to collaborate with others. 

4 hours ago, Tezza said:

Mediocre notation and score editor, that is because it is aimed at simple songwriting, not orchestral needs, no other DAW has this built in as well, you have to buy in extra and even in Cubase, you cannot put your lyrics straight in.

Samplitude's notation editor is 10x faster than Cakewalk's, and you can put your lyrics straight in.  There are options other than the one DAW that lacks a feature and requires an add-on that you can think of, in an attempt to make your argument sound stronger.  So many options.  That's part of the point, though I expect you to completely ignore this fact. 

You can add Notion to Studio One for like $99, IIRC.

4 hours ago, Tezza said:

"Then the statement about Studio One completely contradicts your earlier quoted statement."

I have no idea what you are saying here.

You said it doesn't really work, then you stay they are kind of doing it.  It's contradictory.  Do not expect you to have an idea what I'm saying... you wrote it!

4 hours ago, Tezza said:

You seem to be wanting to start a fight.

No.  You seem to enjoy being a condescending *****.  But then again...  Maybe "most of those young people" just haven't grasped the sheer immense amount of wisdom that spews forth through your old fingers slamming on that keyboard?

85% of "DAW Wars" is nothing but bias and personal preference posited as facts and statistics.  90%, Lol...

Edited May 13, 2019 by SomeGuy

[Craig Anderton]

Okay.

I've been working with music software since it could do only MIDI. I've worked on everything from award-winning classical albums, to an album that spent 2 years in the Billboard new age top 20 chart, to hardcore German electronic music. I do rock music and EDM concerts. I wrote the manual for Ableton Live version 2, was an expert witness for Magix when someone initiated (IMHO) a totally bogus lawsuit because they claimed they invented loops, consulted to Avid, wrote a best-selling book about Cubase, did demos at the last show about MOTU's really excellent amp sims...there's a lot more, but you get the idea. I love music, I love creativity, and I appreciate the people in this industry who've devoted their lives to what they love, instead of making smart bombs and raking in the $$. 

When it appeared Cakewalk was doomed, I know at least one "competitor" that was - and I don't use this term lightly - devastated. They had an incredible amount of respect for Noel and what Cakewalk was going. The two companies collaborated on working out the kinks in a third-party spec. This company is composed of musicians, and they knew what it would be like to lose your primary tool. When they offered a deal to Cakewalk users, they weren't leeching off of anyone. They genuinely wanted to help out.

The industry is very much like this. Look at MIDI, where companies got together for the common good of musicians. Sure, they made money selling MIDI gear. But I submit it was because they had the right motives.

This tribal talk about DAWs is silly. I have a lot of stringed instruments. Each one is different. Some have obvious differences, like an acoustic vs. electric, or 12-string vs. 6-string, or a 5-string bass vs. a 4-string. Some are dobros or ukuleles. Some have short-scale necks and some have long-scale necks, which has a huge influence on playing and tone.

Cakewalk has some extremely advanced features that other companies would do well to emulate. Studio One has that incredible harmonic editing and the project page for mastering. Ableton Live has an audio engine that won't quit. Acid Pro is still the fastest way to put music together. Cubase can basically do anything, if you put in the time to learn it. Mixcraft is the most flexible and cost-effective "needledrop music" library ever devised. Reason remains the #1 program that everyone should have, so they can ReWire it into their host program. And MOTU's amp sims, and video options, are stellar.

You can nit pick about "this program has this, this program has that, nyah nyah" but all that means is you're spending time on forums spinning your wheels, when you could be making music with your program of choice.

And before people get too freaked out about "those EDM kids," I've been watching the progress of the son of a close friend over the past few years. He started off borrowing a Casio keyboard I had, he was probably 11 or 12.  Then he started putting loops together in GarageBand. Then he became interested in Ableton Live but stopped doing loops, and is recording his own music into it. He's now 15 or 16, and following an arc where he is getting more creative and more individualistic all the time. He is not alone.

EDM is the "gateway drug" into a life of music for some people. I can't help but think of all those oldsters back in the 50s and 60s who dismissed those "kids" who could only play three chords on guitar in a garage. 

Be grateful there are so many choices, so that people can choose exactly what they need...or in my case, the right tool for the right job. This is a low-paying industry, and only getting worse as companies (like Apple, sorry) diminish the value of software.  If you want software to have all the features you want, be willing to pay $1,000 for a program. Until then, spread that $1,000 over multiple programs, and you'll be covered for anything. It's no harder to learn different software than it is to learn the differences in playing an acoustic guitar compared to an electric...actually, I think it's easier.

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2019 by Craig Anderton

[Tezza]

Someguy, All I attempted to do was to identify the different kinds of people who use DAW's and where Cakewalk fits in there, didn't expect the response to end up in the stratosphere. Having difficulty reading your post, It's just too long man, meditate or take another pill or something, do whatever you need to do to control those obvious obsessive compulsive desires of yours. You really are overreacting and just looking for argument.

My post is fine, saying it is patronizing and condescending all the way through is a dreadfully distorted characterization of my post. I'm not insulting younger people, I am stating what I think the marketing position of DAW's is, how they are marketed to young people. It's no different to the way the gaming industry drives computers, the EDM crew drive DAW creation at the moment, this is evidenced by the massive popularity of those EDM type DAW's. However, the marketers are making the whole business of music making appear more easy than it really is.

I am not even comparing DAW's or saying which is better, just stating the obvious really.

Not really interested in talking about Sonar, I use Cakewalk, different program, different owners. Whatever your past gripes there, try to move on before you bust a blood vessel.

Sonar is dead. Long live Cakewalk.

Cakewalk has all you need as a songwriter/musician, yes I'm well aware you can buy add ons for the other DAW's the point is, Cakewalk has it in the box and it is the only DAW that does have lyrics and notation with cute little guitar chords, together with console emulation, tape saturation etc all in the one place and easy to use. That's why I think it does very well against other DAW's in the musician/songwriter category. All it needs is some dedicated in house multi-instrument/sampler like Halion etc then everything will be there. But if you have your own instruments as I do with Kontakt, then you are good to go all the way.

Samplitude is very difficult to master, I do see you advertising that program a lot on this forum. Oh, that's where I went wrong, I forgot to mention your beloved Samplitude! sorry about that. I am just not sure where it fits in, which category, don't really hear much about it.

I think it's a bit rich of you to criticize Bandlab when they provide this DAW for free, that's just ungrateful.

And I am not that old.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Tezza

[chuckebaby]

5 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

What BandLab has done is barely anything.  They have fixed a few bugs, added a feature here or there, and changed some optiosn around.  The last few years  of development has been quite wanting.

Dude, Your painting yourself into a corner here . Heres the fixes in the past year alone.

These fixes and added features for Cakewalk are on par with any DAW in the market right now. Reaper, Cubase, Studio One are on the same pace as Cakewalk when it comes to added features and fixes. There are people who complain about DAW Joe just as much as there are people who complain about DAW Jane. Just ask the pro tool haters.

Seriously, I believe its good to have debates and opinions of all sorts, because it levels the playing field in discussions. But its beginning to sounds as if your running low on rehearsed DAW bashing material..lol.  

[Tezza]

44 minutes ago, Chuck E Baby said:

But its beginning to sounds as if your running low on rehearsed DAW bashing material..lol.  

That is exactly the phrase I've been searching for in the last 6 weeks or so when the anti-cakewalk trolls raise their heads here and there. Spot on Chuck!

Edited May 13, 2019 by Tezza

[jb101]

On 4/16/2019 at 11:48 AM, msmcleod said:

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by jb101
Darn mobile

[jb101]

Alex, Alex?

[Royal Yaksman]

On 5/13/2019 at 10:08 AM, SomeGuy said:

A lot of momentum for different DAWs also has to do with market conditions.  If you live in a market where everyone uses Ableton, then the chances of you using anything else are much less.  If you have to collaborate with other artists, then you need to be compatible.  Cakewalk is quite weak in this area, and there are very few reasons for anyone to bother switching off of their current DAW to Cakewalk.

Cakewalk has simple and easy stem bouncing options. Really any DAW that makes bouncing stems easy, is great for collabs because then it doesn't matter what DAW anyone is using.

If you are talking sharing the entire project fx, automation and all? Well the argument could be made that with Cakewalk being free, that it is actually the easiest DAW to collab with because all the other people need to do is download it, watch a couple of hours of 'how to' vids and then they are ready to get going without reaching into their pockets.

[Feral State Sound]

2 hours ago, pwalpwal said:

well i haven't seen any "i'm moving to cakewalk from X" posts in forums, unlike all the "i'm moving from cakewalk to X" posts after the shutdown, possibly due to lack of marketing?

There is nothing like a Marketing campaign for now... I wonder if it's because Bandlab is still preparing a new Cakewalk website or if It's due to Cakewalk not being a priority for them, time will tell. Nevertheless, It is also a reality that some people are switching to Cakewalk from different DAW, here an example:

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Feral State Sound

[Tezza]

I am switching to Cakewalk from Studio One or have almost completely switched.

 

[kitekrazy1]

On 5/11/2019 at 4:41 AM, msmcleod said:

I got the Samplitude Pro Suite X3 way back, because it also came with Sound Forge Pro 11.... and it's one of the reasons I didn't upgrade to the Pro X4 Suite.

SoundForge is now at version 13, and they're still selling the Samplitude Pro X4 Suite with SF v 11.

I do use SoundForge, but I hardly use Samplitude - it's a good DAW, but I've got CbB set up more or less how I want it, and it's one of the few DAW's that support the Mackie C4.

Besides Magix isn't that consumer friendly and seems to have boneheaded marketing.

[kitekrazy1]

On 5/11/2019 at 10:16 PM, Tezza said:

This whole popularity thing is also driven by genre and "what's happening now". At the moment Electronic music (in the box) production is driving the industry, the concept is, anyone can become a star overnight if you just buy Ableton Live suite and sit down at a computer. You don't need to know anything about music at all, just move your mouse, twiddle dials, press buttons and you will become a millionaire star DJ overnight.

The majority of young people buy DAW's with these high hopes and then after having them for 2 weeks to 3 months, they find out how complex the whole process really is, they then move on to something else, just using their DAW as a hobby occasionally or not at all. We can call them "EM newbies". Some of these have some success at electronic music production where they may become semi or fully professional with their songs. We can call these "EM artists".

The others might be engineers who want a DAW to record others in their home studio etc, they might be making money from a studio or have hopes to, we can call these "Engineers". The last group would be singer/musician songwriters who can play instruments and or sing and want to mainly record their own instruments and songs. We can call these "musician songwriters".

The DAW market is driven mainly by EM newbies and EM artists. Musician/songwriters are probably next and then engineers in terms of popularity.

DAW's try to cover all of these different needs in one DAW but it doesn't work really. The EM people are going to get Ableton, Bitwig or  Fruity Loops etc, they may try Studio One or Mixcraft. The Musician/Songwriters are likely to get Cubase or Studio One or Protools/Logic. The Engineers will get Protools Studio one or Logic.

The question is where does Cakewalk fit in here, my view is that it fits mainly in the musician/songwriter category and it does that category better than any other DAW.

Everything is there to produce your songs easily and to support hardware instruments. However, there are only a certain amount of musician/songwriters.

It can also fit in the engineer category.

Studio One tries to get a bite of every cherry and probably has some success at that. I think that Cakewalk should go after the Musician/Songwriter category mainly, it may not be the most popular category but seems to be more relevant to Cakewalk than the other categories.

 

 Some of those FL, Live, and Reason  EDM users who went for the Cubase crossgrade will probably revert back because of the workflow is designed for those genres.  Usually the complaints when other DAWs have a new version is they are geared towards EDM users.   For Mac users Logic is taking a bite out of the EDM market.