Cloud Storage Of Cakewalk Projects?

[user390096]

Is anybody using cloud storage of their Cakewalk Projects? I'm trying to. I have about 600 GB of files (1200+ projects/songs). I just bought the Microsoft OneDrive 6 TB service but I don't see that it's uploading much at all, I just see a "pending sync" icon next to each folder. I also have a much smaller Google GDrive and I've learned that uploading just 1 project with only about 20 .wav files can take well over an hour and I'm using very slow Xfinity cable internet. Doing the math it may take months to upload everything so I'm considering buying FIOS for a month or so to speed things up as their upload speed is a lot faster than cable.

Anyway, is anybody doing this and are there things to look out for? And yes I have all my projects backed up in 2 places on hard drives but I wanted something off-site as well.

[msmcleod]

I use Mega for backing up my projects. I've only got about 20GB of data though (most of my tracks are MIDI based).

This ensures that not only are my projects backed up, I can easily sync between my house PC and my studio PC.

The way I do it is:

- My main project directory is on one drive (E:\SEQUENCE)
- I've got a copy of this directory on another drive (F:\Projects) which is used to sync to Mega - this is important... you can't have the cloudsync accessing files at the same time as Cakewalk.
- At the end of a session - I run a batch file which copies any changed files in my main project directory to my sync directory. I then let Mega do its sync.
- Before I start a session - I run a different batch file that copies any files that are newer from the sync directory to my project directory

My end of session batch file (copy to cloud)

ROBOCOPY E:\SEQUENCE F:\Projects\SEQUENCE *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY E:\PICTURE F:\Projects\PICTURE *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY E:\TEMPLATES F:\Projects\TEMPLATES *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT
ROBOCOPY E:\WAVEDATA F:\Projects\WAVEDATA *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT

My beginning of session batch file (copy from cloud)

ROBOCOPY F:\Projects\SEQUENCE E:\SEQUENCE *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY F:\Projects\PICTURE E:\PICTURE *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY F:\Projects\TEMPLATES E:\TEMPLATES *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT
ROBOCOPY F:\Projects\WAVEDATA E:\WAVEDATA *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT

Note:  The flags passed to ROBOCOPY make sure only the changed files are copied over.

[Bill Phillips]

17 hours ago, msmcleod said:

I use Mega for backing up my projects. I've only got about 20GB of data though (most of my tracks are MIDI based).

This ensures that not only are my projects backed up, I can easily sync between my house PC and my studio PC.

The way I do it is:

- My main project directory is on one drive (E:\SEQUENCE)
- I've got a copy of this directory on another drive (F:\Projects) which is used to sync to Mega - this is important... you can't have the cloudsync accessing files at the same time as Cakewalk.
- At the end of a session - I run a batch file which copies any changed files in my main project directory to my sync directory. I then let Mega do its sync.
- Before I start a session - I run a different batch file that copies any files that are newer from the sync directory to my project directory

My end of session batch file (copy to cloud)

ROBOCOPY E:\SEQUENCE F:\Projects\SEQUENCE *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY E:\PICTURE F:\Projects\PICTURE *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY E:\TEMPLATES F:\Projects\TEMPLATES *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT
ROBOCOPY E:\WAVEDATA F:\Projects\WAVEDATA *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT

My beginning of session batch file (copy from cloud)

ROBOCOPY F:\Projects\SEQUENCE E:\SEQUENCE *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY F:\Projects\PICTURE E:\PICTURE *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT 
ROBOCOPY F:\Projects\TEMPLATES E:\TEMPLATES *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT
ROBOCOPY F:\Projects\WAVEDATA E:\WAVEDATA *.* /XO /E /COPYALL /DCOPY:DAT

Note:  The flags passed to ROBOCOPY make sure only the changed files are copied over.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is perfect for me. I've used batch file backup forever and am very comfortable with your process. The only question I have is, given the amount of time I've spent fretting about this, why didn't I come up with it myself!?

[msmcleod]

1 minute ago, Bill Phillips said:

Thank you, thank you, thank you. This is perfect for me. I've used batch file backup forever and am very comfortable with your process. The only question I have is, given the amount of time I've spent fretting about this, why didn't I come up with it myself!?

One thing I would say though if, for 600GB of data, you're initial sync will be pretty slow (unless you've got a VERY fast upload speed).

My connection is 80Mb down / 20Mb up, and it took a few hours for the first upload. 

Now that's done though, incremental uploads are usually less than 2 mins. I use that time to let me pack some gear away (mics / cables / switch pre-amps off etc), and make sure my phone and keys are in my pocket!

The download sync takes less than 20 secs.

[Bill Phillips]

4 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

One thing I would say though if, for 600GB of data, you're initial sync will be pretty slow (unless you've got a VERY fast upload speed).

Thanks. I'm not the OP. I only have about 140 GB in my Projects folder. I also just checked. My sync speeds are 100 Mbps upload and 10 Mbps download. I wish I had your download speed.

[user390096]

Just ordered FIOS 200/200 for starters.  Sadly I tested my Xfinity cable upload performance by uploading a project with about 40 audio tracks and it took about an hour and a half for just 1 project, ugh. But I think the advertised upload speed is around 6 mbps up and I just did a speed test and got 5.8 mbps. So FIOS is about 33 times faster uploading if it really can do that speed. Unfortunately when you order FIOS you have to wait a few days for their SYSTEM to recognize you even exist though I already own the ONT modem and I'm ready to start uploading.  The great news is that you can cancel at any time with no fees and if I get everything uploaded in under 30 days and then cancel, there is no cost at all. If I need more speed, they have a 400/400 plan and even faster plans. Once everything is uploaded I can live with the slower cable uploads as it will be just incremental uploads and I think the downloads speeds are decent with cable.

 

UPDATE: Did a download of the project that took an hour and half to upload and it completed it in about 3 minutes. Not bad at all on Xfinity cable which is what I have for the next year on a contract. OneDrive put it into a zip file then downloaded it. Still waiting for Verizon to turn on the FIOS 200/200 so I can get the projects uploaded.

Edited February 5, 2021 by user390096

[user390096]

Wow! Fiber is King!!! My FIOS was just activated (after waiting for 6 days) and the Song Project that took about an hour and a half to upload using Xfinity cable, took only 2 minutes to upload with FIOS optical fiber! Did a FIOS speed test and it's about 300 mbps down and 220 up, of course I'm doing it at 5 AM when I don't think many folks are using the internet but I've read FIOS fiber doesn't "share" like cable and bog down. We'll see later today. Also I have the FIOS ethernet cable coming directly into my ethernet port on my computer and not sent through the router so I'm sure that helps with the speed.

Looks like I'm going to be able to upload all my songs plus another 3 TB of family movies (maybe 12 hours of my kids playing field hockey that no one has ever watched, lol), and other family pictures and videos, plus all the documents, other music, etc. Too bad I'm stuck with a contract with Xfinity for a year but it's bundled with a $18/month phone deal shared by my wife and myself. THAT'S RIGHT, $9 per person per month with unlimited texting and talking and 1 TB shared data which we've never used more than 20% of in a month. Can't beat that, and they told me the price doesn't go up for the phone plan as long as I keep the super-slow upload speed Xfinity internet.

UPDATE: In about an hour I've been able to upload all the songs that start with an "A" which consisted of 54 songs and about 24 GB. 25 more letters to go. So at 1 hour per letter, that's about 26 hours via FIOS, rather than about 40 days via Xfinity. And I just learned there are some Xfinity optical connections near where I live in the Philadelphia suburbs. Hope they come to my town.

UPDATE at Noon: Wow 2! I'm uploading in the middle of the day and it's even faster. As I'm uploading I did another speed test and it says it's now doing uploads at 320 mbps. Letter "E" only took 10 minutes for 25 songs, very impressive. I know not everyone even has access to fiber but it's way faster and my whole internet is way snappier too. Give it a try when you can, it's a game changer.

Edited February 5, 2021 by user390096
grammar

[Glenn Stanton]

i just had Optimum (north NJ) installed - 300/300 - i was on 100/20 - the difference is radical (but expected by me as having experience building fiber networks). even if i'm at the far end of the house from the wifi router (about 60ft) i'm still doing 200 down and 180 up... i uploaded 2TB (1 each to Google and OneDrive) in about 16 hours...

keeping in mind 300mbs = 30Mbs... and yes, at some point the switching circuit where all the fibers connect will have to share.

in general a switch consists of say 6 independent sections (often called an "ASIC"), each typically with 12 fibers. if done correctly the sections will be balanced so only a few are truly active at a time - resulting in best overall performance for that switch - but if they stack everyone on a single section before moving on to the next one, it can become congested quickly.

always a good idea to ask the installer "hey, can i get my fiber connection on it's own ASIC?" and maybe they can, in which case you'll have some nice speed for a while ? also, ask if the can get the levels to -20db or higher (most times the minimal spec is -24db) (mine is -17db) and this may require a couple of tries on the "fusing" operation (where they connect the raw fiber to the fiber lead going into a TOSLink-type connector box). much more reliable that way...

[user390096]

Thanx for the feedback Glenn. I'm pretty sure I'm by my lonesome self, as I was probably the only person on my street to get it once it became available about 5 years ago. I don't recall asking my installer anything other than "this truly is gonna be way faster than Xfinity, right", and I think he said download are about the same but uploads are way faster, and he was right! I keep going between Xfinity and FIOS every year now to get that "intro" price but Xfinity was ready for me this year and offered to extend my $39.99 intro deal to 2 more years with the first year on a contract. And since it made our cell phones almost free, I resigned with them. 

PS - Up to letter "J" already, 584 songs done and only 676 songs to go. Looks like I can maybe finish this task by midnight.

 

[user390096]

All done! It's a little after midnight but I'm very happy it went so fast and I even took a 2 hour break from hovering over the process ; 1 letter at a time, just in case any letter had garbage hiding in it and I had to start again, but just for that letter and not the entire alphabet. Started at 4:30 in the early morning and ended around midnight, so uploaded about 600 GB in about 18 hours that had been expected to take about 40 days. 40 days?? Unplugged the FIOS and ran a speed test on Xfinity and it was only 52 down and a solid 6 up, or was 5.8 up? Anyway the slowest FIOS speed offered, 200/200, actually was working most of the days at 300+/300+, a 40+ increase in upload speed, BRAVO! I may have to keep this and pay $80/month - speed is very addictive?

 

UPDATE: Well the speed is halved or worse when I run the FIOS through my Netgear router which supposedly can stream at 1300 mbps. It's a NETGEAR Dual Band Gigabit AC1750 Smart WiFi Router (R6300v2). Anybody know how to make it go as fast as possible? I'm using the 5G option which I assume is the fastest but it's just not nearly as fast as hardwiring it directly to my computer which sits about 10 feet from the router. I'm using this Wifi Adapter connected to a USB 3 port:

USB Wifi Adapter 600Mbps USB 2.0 Wifi Dongle 802.11 AC Wireless Network Adapter with Dual Band 2.4GHz/150Mbps+5Ghz/433Mbps 2DBI High Gain Antenna for Desktop Windows XP/Vista/7/8.1/10 Mac 10.7-10.15

It got pretty good ratings on Amazon although several folks said it was not really capable of 600 mbps.

 

Well, I plugged another ethernet cable from the router into my desktop/CW Thunderbolt 3 computer (I built myself) and the download speed returned to +300 but the upload speed didn't, but it's much faster than the wireless as I'm getting about 150 up on a consistent basis. I'll give this a try for the home system where my family can hopefully see a positive benefit.

 

UPDATE:  Before I went to bed for my typical 2 hours, I did a wireless speedtest on an old HP laptop and it was slow around 100/55. Now I tried on the actual laptop I use, a much more advanced ASUS flipbook which is about 4 years old and got back to over 200 both down and up. I guess newer tech is just faster but I'm very happy with it. Now to test the wife's but she was happy with the old speed and wouldn't know what any of this speed stuff means, lol. OK back to bed for another 2 hours. Almost forgot, my Android phone (LG Stylus 5) was in the 300's down and I think over 200 up. Great improvement as it took 3 days to upload about 3500 pictures to the Cloud via Xfinity as I waited for the FIOS connection to be activated. I think I'll delete those pix and do it again with the FIOS  connection, it should do it 40 times faster. Fun!

Edited February 5, 2021 by user390096

[Glenn Stanton]

ah, wifi speed. has numerous technical impediments - a major one is it's got a radio which is essentially restricted to 54mbs (or 27Mbs) per channel. the way it gets higher speed is using multiple channels...

so there needs to be a device on the other end capable of leveraging those multiple channels - hardware of course would be best, but device software can do it as well - just less efficiently. the more devices you have on the network then, the more channels become congested - at the end of the day it is all "serialized" streams... i use 2.4G for "non-essential" and guest wifi, and the 5G connection (not to be confused with the hype about the magic 5G from your phone provider) for important devices (like my desktop/laptop ?) .

set the device interface to use fastest bandwidth options, highest power transmit, etc to maximize the connection strength and consume the maximum bandwidth per channel. 

of course the fastest would be a wired connection running giga speed ethernet through a pair of NIC but that might not be an option unless  you have Cat5e (or better) wiring or will run it. forget powerline ethernet...

[user390096]

Discovered my old laptop is so old it's not capable of receiving 5G, so I moved the wifi adapter that  is 5G capable, and that I  had been using with my desktop computer into the USB 2 input on the  old laptop, and immediately it discovered my 5G network and I saw dramatic increases in speed. I also have a 2.4 private, and a 2.4 guest account but I can't ever remember the passcode name of it for guests, lol. I think I'll change it to "guest", that should be easy to remember but I have hundreds?  of people every weekend walking right by my front door playing Pokemen and I don't want them connecting to my house. Therefore, I'm not gonna change it but instead will try harder to remember it. One of those Pokemon folks is gonna get hit by a car some day?

[John Vere]

Fiber Optic here We used to live rural and had Satellite which sucked. There was 80GB max we paid $130 a month for the stupid satellite now we pay $70 for unlimited.  Get different results with different test sites.  

I have always used one drive to store projects but only my backing tracks which have no audio.  That way I can open them on both computers and they are up to date. Also this gives my 3 safe copies. The 2 local folders and the cloud.  I guess I could store album projects on the cloud. I just checked and last album which has 18 songs is 10 GB.  But I'm a ruthless deleter! I know people keep way too many tracks that are sub par, I don't. If it sucks, even a little,  it's in the dust bin. 

 

[user390096]

 

 

LOL, if I threw away all my sucky trax, I wouldn't have anything to save! Maybe I should just give up music and try golf again.

Edited February 6, 2021 by user390096

[Bill Phillips]

On 2/5/2021 at 1:10 AM, user390096 said:

All done! It's a little after midnight but I'm very happy it went so fast and I even took a 2 hour break from hovering over the process ; 1 letter at a time, just in case any letter had garbage hiding in it and I had to start again, but just for that letter and not the entire alphabet. Started at 4:30 in the early morning and ended around midnight, so uploaded about 600 GB in about 18 hours that had been expected to take about 40 days. 40 days?? Unplugged the FIOS and ran a speed test on Xfinity and it was only 52 down and a solid 6 up, or was 5.8 up? Anyway the slowest FIOS speed offered, 200/200, actually was working most of the days at 300+/300+, a 40+ increase in upload speed, BRAVO! I may have to keep this and pay $80/month - speed is very addictive?

 

Are you still using OneDrive? If yes, how are you copying your project files to OneDrive and how are you updating project files on OneDrive? I've tried a couple of different methods so far with no luck.

[Glenn Stanton]

for a while i was using a separate drive for the active projects and copying over to OneDrive, but i discovered if i turned off onedrive or paused it, it no longer interfered with the project files when working on them. i have gotten a bit lazy after setting it to pause for 8 hours and just let it re-engage after it expires and let it do its synchronization thing... same for the Google Drive which is used for bulk content backup. just re-enable the sync once i'm done installing new content etc and let it work. since it's all mainly working on only updated or new files, it doesn't take as long as the first time...

[user390096]

Bill, first I created a folder on OneDrive called  "Cakewalk Projects to be uploaded". Then I created another folder on my PC called "Cakewalk Projects to be uploaded". Next I copied all of my songs from the Cakewalk Projects folder to my new folder called "Cakewalk Projects to be uploaded" on my "D" drive on my PC. I uploaded my Project files from the new folder one letter at a time: for example, all songs that start with the letter "A", then all songs that start with the letter "B", and so on. I did this as I read if an upload goes bad, you have to restart from the beginning. I have so many big files I decided to do it one letter at a time as doing the entire project would take about 12 hours of flawless uploading which I didn't think would/could happen. Anyway, it went fairly quickly with FIOS, letter by letter, and I don't recall any of the letters crashing.

After everything was uploaded I changed the name of the folder on OneDrive back to "Cakewalk Projects" which is the active folder on my "D" drive and hope the synchronization is happening but it's not as far as I can tell. I need to figure that out. The only thing that's working "in-sync" is my phone that sends my phone's pictures and videos immediately to OneDrive and annoyingly, it did this on it's own when I first got OneDrive (6TB) installed - I never asked OneDrive to involve my phone and I was going to delete the pictures/videos on OneDrive as I already have them on a Google Drive. But good thing I didn't, as I learned if you delete files from OneDrive it will also delete them from your device, in this case, my phone and they could be gone forever. That would not be good.

I created the mirror Cakewalk folder with a slightly different name in case OneDrive started to delete my files from my PC which I've read could happen. Once I got everything uploaded and didn't see anything strange going on, I changed the name of the folder in OneDrive to "Cakewalk Projects" which is my active storage location on my "D" drive. Now I just sit and hope when I add, delete, or edit files in my Cakewalk Projects folder they are also updated in the Cloud and "in-sync" but it's just not happening even though I see that everything is supposedly "in-sync".

I need to get into a chat with MS but that's not so easy, they hide their chat links and may want to charge you if you use their help. I was in one chat with them and they took over my PC because my old free version of OneDrive was showing up kinda as my new paid version (6 TB with 6 accounts). It was a confusing mess but now it seems to be working but I'm still trying to tweak the whole thing.

 

[Bill Phillips]

On 2/8/2021 at 12:42 AM, Glenn Stanton said:

for a while i was using a separate drive for the active projects and copying over to OneDrive, but i discovered if i turned off onedrive or paused it, it no longer interfered with the project files when working on them. i have gotten a bit lazy after setting it to pause for 8 hours and just let it re-engage after it expires and let it do its synchronization thing... same for the Google Drive which is used for bulk content backup. just re-enable the sync once i'm done installing new content etc and let it work. since it's all mainly working on only updated or new files, it doesn't take as long as the first time...

Thanks. Do you have your Cakewalk Projects folder on OneDrive  and not duplicated on another drive? If yes, do you have them marked "Always keep on device." Do your projects include audio tracks that are on OneDrive?

[Glenn Stanton]

sorry, the project (includes audio files) and the audio content (Cakewalk Content, libraries, etc) folders are in the Google Drive configuration - so all files are kept on the (separate) drive but not under the Google Drive folder. the OneDrive has all my other work (recording studio design, and other architecture)  files, and yes, those are in the OneDrive folder and configured to always be kept on the device.

[mdiemer]

For those doing only midi, Box.com is a good choice. 10 GB of storage is plenty for midi. I have only used about 2 GB so far.

[Bill Phillips]

11 hours ago, user390096 said:

Bill, first I created a folder on OneDrive called  "Cakewalk Projects to be uploaded". Then I created another folder on my PC called "Cakewalk Projects to be uploaded". Next I copied all of my songs from the Cakewalk Projects folder to my new folder called "Cakewalk Projects to be uploaded" on my "D" drive on my PC. I uploaded my Project files from the new folder one letter at a time: for example, all songs that start with the letter "A", then all songs that start with the letter "B", and so on. I did this as I read if an upload goes bad, you have to restart from the beginning. I have so many big files I decided to do it one letter at a time as doing the entire project would take about 12 hours of flawless uploading which I didn't think would/could happen. Anyway, it went fairly quickly with FIOS, letter by letter, and I don't recall any of the letters crashing.

Thanks for the details. Very helpful. I did something similar which worked fine. I have a bloated (~130GB) active projects (Cakewalk Projects) folder but I managed to get it copied to OneDrive and marked "Always keep on this device." So I've got the Cakewalk Projects folder used by Cakewalk on one drive, OneDrive with a Cakewalk Projects BU folder on another drive, and another copy of the Cakewald Projects BU folder in the OneDrive cloud. All three folders are identical. So far so good.

12 hours ago, user390096 said:

After everything was uploaded I changed the name of the folder on OneDrive back to "Cakewalk Projects" which is the active folder on my "D" drive and hope the synchronization is happening but it's not as far as I can tell. I need to figure that out. The only thing that's working "in-sync" is my phone that sends my phone's pictures and videos immediately to OneDrive and annoyingly, it did this on it's own when I first got OneDrive (6TB) installed - I never asked OneDrive to involve my phone and I was going to delete the pictures/videos on OneDrive as I already have them on a Google Drive. But good thing I didn't, as I learned if you delete files from OneDrive it will also delete them from your device, in this case, my phone and they could be gone forever. That would not be good.

AFAIK, OneDrive will not sync with a folder not on OneDrive. That's the rub. So far all I've found that works is to manually drag files into the Cakewalk Projects BU folder "Always kept on this device." But I haven't tested what happens when a newer version is copied into OneDrive. I hope it will replace (update) the existing file which is what file Explorer does, but I haven't verified it. However, I can tell you something that doesn't work: Using a RoboCopy command including the \MIR (for mirror) on a ~130 GB folder. That blew up and I'm still working on recovery. I didn't lose or corrupt any project files but my ISP limits me to 1250 GB/mo and I'm tettering on the limit as I work through recovery. Before I tried the RoboCopy command on the 130 GB folder I tested it on a 1 GB folder deleting a couple of files and updating a couple more. Worked like a charm. Tried the same thing on the 130 GB folder and OneDrive sync failed while it appears it was deleting the entire folder in OneDrive on my PC. Next month with a fresh 1250GB Internet budget, I'm going to try some other things. One might be just limiting the scope of updates which will require more bookkeeping.

12 hours ago, user390096 said:

I created the mirror Cakewalk folder with a slightly different name in case OneDrive started to delete my files from my PC which I've read could happen. Once I got everything uploaded and didn't see anything strange going on, I changed the name of the folder in OneDrive to "Cakewalk Projects" which is my active storage location on my "D" drive. Now I just sit and hope when I add, delete, or edit files in my Cakewalk Projects folder they are also updated in the Cloud and "in-sync" but it's just not happening even though I see that everything is supposedly "in-sync".

AFAIK, OneDrive will not read/write/delete/add any files/folders not in the local OneDrive folder. So OneDrive probably won't sync with a folder not in the local OneDrive folder. That's why I tried RoboCopy which I've used for years to maintain backups.

12 hours ago, user390096 said:

I need to get into a chat with MS but that's not so easy, they hide their chat links and may want to charge you if you use their help. I was in one chat with them and they took over my PC because my old free version of OneDrive was showing up kinda as my new paid version (6 TB with 6 accounts). It was a confusing mess but now it seems to be working but I'm still trying to tweak the whole thing.

That little redhead bot with the blue shirt has been pretty helpful to me. I believe her sync problem troubleshooting suggestion walked me through my sync problem resolution. Can't be sure because I've turned sync off until tomorrow to find out where I stand with my 1250 GB that needs to keep a pretty steady streaming user supplied with content until the 25th. I've also gotten email support a couple of times. Don't think I've been offered chat support on this problem.