Larry Shelby Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 $9.99 at Plugin Boutique https://www.pluginboutique.com/product/1-Instruments/4-Synth/1545-Hybrid-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Vere Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 Air products are always on sale. I have everything as a result. Most are top notch VST’s and certainly worth it. But they really need to do something about the installers. I just re did 2 computers and Air was the only product that sucks up way to much of your time. First the iLok. Then they never seem to find their libraries. Do not even attempt to relocate them or you’ll have a nightmare on your hands I leave them at the default and they still are lost. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) On 1/29/2021 at 9:41 AM, John Vere said: Air products are always on sale. I have everything as a result. Most are top notch VST’s and certainly worth it. But they really need to do something about the installers. I just re did 2 computers and Air was the only product that sucks up way to much of your time. First the iLok. Then they never seem to find their libraries. Do not even attempt to relocate them or you’ll have a nightmare on your hands I leave them at the default and they still are lost. I own several AIR VSTs that I bought cheap but never installed any of them until the other week when I tried to install one of my two licenses of Hybrid3 on my son's Windows 10 PC. It absolutely stopped the PC from working. It took me a half hour to deal with getting the PC working again and I had to roll Windows back. When I went to AIR's forum on KVR, I found a AIR support employee stated in July 2020 that it's a known problem, not to install PACE with the installers and instead do it later and that AIR was working on a fix. Except there is no option to NOT install PACE with the Hybrid3 installers and the tech support guy disappeared and never posted again after July. I cannot strongly enough recommend that people run from any AIR VSTs. The developer has no interest in supporting their products. Even for free, their VSTs aren't worth the trouble they cause and the KVR thread and threads at other forums make clear that my experience is common. I would only try installing any of their VSTs again after they made updates and other users reported no problems. Edited February 1, 2021 by PavlovsCat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 6 hours ago, PavlovsCat said: I cannot strongly enough recommend that people run from any AIR VSTs I avoided them for years because installing the PACE/iLok software way back when did indeed present me with lots of problems that I didn't have beforehand that magically disappeared as soon as I uninstalled it. I was persuaded a few years back to try again as the PACE software was ok now, so I did and everything works as it should on win 7, so I guess it must be a win 10 issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) I haven't had any installation problems with AIR VSTs on Windows 10*. No problems with PACE/iLOK either ... yet. Maybe I've been lucky. * I'm still on 1909, which might explain my lack of problems. Edited February 2, 2021 by Wibbles Footnote 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fleer Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 No problems here either, luckily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeGBradford Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Or here. Except I had to install them on system drive for them to work rather than data drive where I keep most of my VSTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 My AIR installers that were downloaded 5 years ago via my Plugin Boutique do not include Pace iLok installers. I have them all archived, and no problem here when re-installing them. In fact, the install instructions back then listed a required step for going directly to iLok and registering for an account and getting the iLok set up and product serials activated BEFORE installing the instruments. I don't know what has happened to AIR since then, but according to the reports I have read online, AIR must have changed something in the installers since. But evidently not for the better regarding PACE. Ironically, I do not believe AIR has made any actual updates to the instruments themselves in 5 years or so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 +1 on not having troubles with any of my AIR synths. I use the most recent installers on Windows 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wibbles Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 "AIR Music Technology - Death or Glory" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promidi Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 And then there is this from Plugin Boutique tech support after requesting the installers... "Due to a severe technical issue with the Windows versions of various AIR Music Technology & SONiVOX software, we have made the decision to remove the affected products from the Plugin Boutique site whilst we wait for the updated installers which will fix this problem. As a result of this, we recommend that Windows 10 users DO NOT download or install any AIR Music Technology/SONiVOX software. " 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Promidi said: And then there is this from Plugin Boutique tech support after requesting the installers... "Due to a severe technical issue with the Windows versions of various AIR Music Technology & SONiVOX software, we have made the decision to remove the affected products from the Plugin Boutique site whilst we wait for the updated installers which will fix this problem. As a result of this, we recommend that Windows 10 users DO NOT download or install any AIR Music Technology/SONiVOX software. " Like I mentioned earlier, there is something going on with recent versions of their installers. This confirms it. Nothing wrong with the instruments themselves though... they still work fine. Edited February 1, 2021 by abacab 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Promidi said: And then there is this from Plugin Boutique tech support after requesting the installers... "Due to a severe technical issue with the Windows versions of various AIR Music Technology & SONiVOX software, we have made the decision to remove the affected products from the Plugin Boutique site whilst we wait for the updated installers which will fix this problem. As a result of this, we recommend that Windows 10 users DO NOT download or install any AIR Music Technology/SONiVOX software. " Yep. It's been acknowledged by the developer and there are lots of people on KVR and other forums who've reported the same issues. To those posting that they're fine, I would suggest that you may be doing fine, but after future OS updates you may not be fine. AIR is selling abandonware and I appreciate Plugin Boutique for having the integrity to pull AIR products and make a clear public statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeGBradford Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Fair point! Agreed PIB have done the right thing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) AIR's instruments and plug-ins are largely irrelevant, TBH. Hybrid 3 competes directly with Surge. Both are Hybrid Analog Subtractive/WaveTable Synths. Surge is free and actively developed. Scalable UI (and Skins - the new Royal Surge Skin is $$$), VST3, MPE, WaveTable Import, etc. All there... I consider these Legacy Instruments. Transfuser 2 is the only one that is still quite useful (as a sampler/slicer when you don't have other options), but it needs a serious GUI update. For several months the Strike 2 installer was bugged and would install EVERYTHING EXCEEPT THE VST PLUG-IN... Lol. Took about 6 months for them to update that installer. Before then, the only way to get the DLL was to download the update installer from AIR's website and install that over the installation you'd already performed. Mini Grand's installer also copied it's content to the Program Installer cache, so it would de facto waste 1GB of storage on your system drive. You had to work around this by installing without the content, copying the content yourself, and then specifying the location in the plugin settings. Lots of weird issues with the installers... and lots of people have reported some serious stability issues with Xpand!2 (probably the most owned AIR plug-in). Edited February 2, 2021 by Maestro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 (edited) Oops. Now that you mentioned it, the plugin that actually caused all the issues on my son's Windows 10 PC was actually XPand!2 not Hybrid 3. I own a bunch of their plugins that I picked up over the years but never installed any of them until last month. I was pretty interested in installing Loom 2, which I also own, but the nightmare I dealt with trying to install XPand!2 was a pretty big deal. I will not bother with any of the AIR plugins I own until they fix their installers and I can see people posting that they work on Windows 10. If that ever happens. To Maestro's point, yes, like Sonivox (owned by the same company), AIR plugins are really old and haven't been properly maintained by their current owner who clearly buys declining plugin and sample brands just to use their products as cash cows That is, the get as much money as they can for the products -- which isn't much for these old VSTs and Sonivox sample libraries made in the 90s with VST wrappers from the 00s -- but don't invest anything in new products, in maintaining existing products or in providing even minimal level of customer support. Edited February 2, 2021 by Peter DeLegge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Promidi Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Are the AIR and SONiVOX issues with Windows 10 only with the installers themselves or the fact that the plugins are on your Windows 10 system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatstand Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 I have most if not all of the AIR and Sonivox plugins although rarely used. I have just checked and Hybrid 3 V 3.07.19200 is working fine on my Win10 V 2004 build 19041 782 Admittedly they were installed a while back. I did start updating recently until I realised the last update was mainly to deal with compatibility with the latest Mac OS. In regards to the installation path, yes the resultant folders are huge but I was able to move the data files off the main drive and use a folder redirect to fool the vst. From memory there is some info out there (youtube video?) on how to do this. I know there are Anti-Ilokkers out there who don't like the whole PACE thing, given that it is always running on the system but tbh I now have so many other vendors that use I Lok such as soundtoys, eventide, Izotope, zynaptic and slate that I have just accepted it as a way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Promidi said: Are the AIR and SONiVOX issues with Windows 10 only with the installers themselves or the fact that the plugins are on your Windows 10 system? They are known problems with the installer that a company support rep has acknowledged as a known problem they plan on addressing stated in July 2020 -- but never have done so. It is a problem with Pace drivers in the installer and the current installer version of XPand!2 doesn't permit the user to opt out of installing PACE and the result many users have reported and AIR acknowledges, is that it will completely shut down your Windows 10 installation and require the user to rollback Windows. You'd think AIR would have at least updated the installer in 6 plus months. Anyhow, after responding to several people, I'll make this my last post in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 This might explain why my machine started BSOD'ing just after installing the AIR products when I did a "clean" windows upgrade to Windows 10 20H2 (i.e. the one where it wipes out all your program files, but keeps your data). Luckily, I eventually managed to get a normal upgrade to Windows 10 20H2 working in the end, and all my AIR products work normally. So I guess if you've got the option, run the installers on Windows 10 1909, update iLok licence manager - then do your Windows upgrade. Doesn't help people who are already on Windows 10 2004 or 20H2 though. I'm surprised they just don't take the PACE installers out completely, and just tell people to install iLok manager first. I mean... installing AIR products is a PITA anyhow - there's that many files, it's easy to get lost - so adding an extra step isn't going to make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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