Interface with loopback function with Cakewalk and another audio softwarequestion

[Misha]

Hi Folks.

Can somebody who actually used/knows about this reply. I am looking at a couple interfaces with "loopback" feature. To my understanding they are something like multi client Asio drivers?

Here is what I want to accomplish. I have a standalone  software that has internal synth (produces sound+midi) The midi part is relatively straight forward.  Loopmidi in/out of Cakewalk, done. The audio part what concerns me. Would I be able to monitor and record audio from another software to Cakewalk with interface that has a loopback feature?  Thank you in advance!

[tecknot]

Hi Misha,

This should be doable, however, this would depend on what driver mode you would be using.  This will not work if you are trying to use ASIO for both CbB and your stand-alone software.

Kind regards,

tecknot

[Misha]

Tecknot,

I assume interface with loopback function will have a proprietary driver, which most likely be Asio. If I am thinking about this in right perspective, it is internal audio routing. I do not think it is a combination of Was/Asio...

Anybody used these interfaces with audio "loopback"  with Cakewalk + other sound producing, non vst software?

Thank you.

[tonemangler]

I have a Clarett 4Pre which has loopback.  I have it set to loopback any audio that appears at outputs 1&2 which are the main stereo outs.  In Windows I have set the Clarett as my main audio o/p so I can loopback record audio from YouTube or Spotify.  My monitors are connected to the main stereo outs 1&2 of the Clarett so anything I hear on my monitors can be looped back into Cakewalk.  I don't use standalone synths but am pretty sure that a loopback interface would do what you need.  If you could buy one from a store with a return policy that would be the best way to test.  Cheers.

[Misha]

Tonemangler, 

thank you for your input.  I done some reading and from what you are describing, it seems doable. There are couple of issues I see that I forgot to mention and your post "reminded" me of one. I intend to use this particular loopback interface with headphones only...  You are running your setup, directly monitoring external source (youtube) through dedicated 1&2 outputs, but  headphones I think would give me whole mix. Which can be problematic because as I understand the recording channel in Cakewalk has to be muted so it does not create feedback.  

My goal is to route the audio from non VST, standalone software to a track(s) in Cakewalk for auditioning and recording in Cakewalk. Sounds simple with the loopback, but it might get tricky.

[InstrEd]

MOTU M2 and MOTU  M4 plus Focusrite  Scarlet 4i4 unit does. There are also some Roland units that do to.

Here is the link for the Focusrite one https://us.focusrite.com/en/usb-audio-interface/scarlett/scarlett-4i4

I wanted to get the MOTU M4 myself for Christmas but they seem to be out of stock at the moment.

[Misha]

InstrEd, Thank you.

My probable choice was  M2

Hopefully it will do this sort of routing thing.  Seems to be quite a piece of gear at that price point.

These guys have M2s in stock (for now) :

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/ 

 

 

[azslow3]

All RME interfaces allow arbitrary loopback. By arbitrary I mean you are free to compose several mixes (f.e. in your case from one software output) as use that mixes as input in other software. That "loopbacks" can be used for other mixes, f.e. for headphones (mixed with any other signals, f.e. Cakewalk output).

Note that the number of mixes is equal to the number of the interface IO channels. F.e. Babyface pro has 12. Related physical channels are irrelevant, so you can use ADAT channels for loopbacks and still have all analog channels for something else.

Multi ASIO capable, so both (or more) programs can use ASIO in parallel (so use any driver mode).

PS.  I have RME, so I have checked all that really works.

PSPS. without "special" interface, you can try voicemeeter banana to do the trick. I have not checked it for multi-asio, but Skype->DAW with fancy routing works.

[rsinger]

1 hour ago, InstrEd said:

I wanted to get the MOTU M4 myself for Christmas but they seem to be out of stock at the moment.

They're around, but you have to be quick. I bought one from Zzounds on Thursday 11/26. American Musical had them as well. It looks like they're selling out fast.

Edited December 5, 2020 by rsinger

[John Vere]

I was lucky and found one in Victoria were my son lives. Was 1 of 2 that Long & Mquade had in BC.  He should be bringing it to me this coming week. 

I can see they would be popular as they are $30+ cheaper than the Scarlett4i4 and have better features. 

[Misha]

Hey Hey, don't derail my topic

I know all the good stuff that is said about RME. I already have a good interface that I use to record vocals etc. I am keeping that.  The MOTU M2 I want mainly because it has that loopback feature and it just seems it just might do what I want from it.  Hopefully without Windows  drama.

[John Vere]

Sorry Its all Ed's fault.   But when I get mine I will most certainly try this. I was thinking it was for reamping too.  Or send my vocals though my Lexicon MX 200. 

[azslow3]

9 hours ago, Misha said:

The MOTU M2 I want mainly because it has that loopback feature and it just seems it just might do what I want from it.

 

14 hours ago, Misha said:

I intend to use this particular loopback interface with headphones only...  You are running your setup, directly monitoring external source (youtube) through dedicated 1&2 outputs, but  headphones I think would give me whole mix. Which can be problematic because as I understand the recording channel in Cakewalk has to be muted so it does not create feedback.  

My goal is to route the audio from non VST, standalone software to a track(s) in Cakewalk for auditioning and recording in Cakewalk. Sounds simple with the loopback, but it might get tricky.

And that in fact can be problematic. I don't have MOTU, but M2 is 2x2 interface. So

In other words you most probably (I simply do not see any theoretical possibility) can't monitor loopback recording together with Cakewalk, so Cakewalk output should be muted when you are recording (or there should be no other tracks in Cakewalk and recorded track should have echo off).

Logically M4 should be able to do that, creating loopback on one pair of outputs and cakewalk output to another pair (since 4x4)

[Misha]

azslow3,

Thank you for joining. Unfortunately I do not understand German (Dutch?)

But, I do not think you are correct about only one pair of loopback ports in M2.  Loopback seems to be a separate thing from physical outputs.  And as I understood from this video, it has 2 pairs of loopback outputs (even on M2) .  

https://cdn-data.motu.com/django_prod/techlink-attachments/156163/2020-08-24 11-17-09.mp4 

 

I know there are some software solutions that exist for multi client ASIO,  but overall this seems to be a perfect package for the price, if it works like I want it  of course  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[azslow3]

Ah sorry.... I am Russian, but for long time I don't notice the difference between Russian, German and English on YouTube... ?

In short: when released, M2/M4 had no real loopback (while it was declired). But that feature was added later.

There are 2 loobacks: one just with output, one mixing output with hardware input (f.e. to record windows sounds + mic).

But there is just one "output", so if it is already used for loopback, you can't use it for something else. In other words, you can hear what you are recording but you can't hear something you don't want to record (f.e. other tracks from Cakewalk, otherwise they are also recorded).

MAY BE IMPORTANT: I have not found any prove that all works with 2 ASIO applications. Loopback does not automatically mean 2x ASIO, can be WDM+ASIO/WDM+WDM only.

[Misha]

Hmm...

It is a bit confusing.  "mixing output with hardware"  I thought that you can have it routed as internal signal mix.

There is only one way to find out. Thankfully there is a return policy  I will try it and report back.

 Всех благ,
Миша.

[John Vere]

On a 2x 2 interface the only way you could have a true loopback is internally via a software mixer.  With my Scarlett I have Mix Control which goes beyond the simple controls and option on the hardware. I don't think M2 or M4 come with the Cue Mix software mixer, at least there's no mention of this in the any of the documents and no download link. 

From the Motu web site and Manual for the M2 and M4 

Loopback

The M4 driver provides convenient loopback channels to your host computer, so you can easily route computer output back to the computer, where you can mix it with live mics and/or guitar inputs from the M4 in your host software for live streaming or podcasting. Streaming and podcasting has never been easier and better-sounding!

LOOPBACK Use the Loopback 1-2 input channels provided by the M Series audio driver to capture audio output from your computer. These channels return the signal being sent to Outputs 1-2 back to the computer, as Loopback inputs 1-2, so that you can capture the signal in your host software, stream it to the web or broadcast it with pod casting software.

Mixing loopback with live inputs If you need to mix loopback channels with live inputs, use the Loopback 1-2 Mix channels provided by the M Series audio driver. These channels combine audio being sent to Outputs 1-2 from the computer with any live signals on the unit’s inputs. For example, you could play back a music (or other audio) from your computer software, speak or sing into a mic connected to the M series unit, and feed the combined result back to the computer for recording or internet streaming. ☛ Remember, be careful! When monitoring loopback channels and live inputs, your host software can cause loud feedback loops. Be sure to disable the monitoring of loopback tracks to avoid feedback.

 

This implies a software loopback channel which I do not see in the control panel.  If it was anywhere it would be in Cue Mix.  Possibly it shows somehow in the interface mixer section in Console view found to the right ? Not overly impressed with info at this point,, very  Mac oriented. On the list of DAW's they don't include Cakewalk. 

Oh well, I downloaded the sparse manual and have installed the driver so ready to go when it gets here. 

The other downside is it doesn't come with any useful freebies. Focusrite at least came with some 1st class Plug ins and a licence for Addictive keys. 

This is the Cue Mix which I don't think is included and the very basic control panel. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by John Vere

[John Vere]

I didn't see your video you posted before my last post. I see now how it works. You will have the loopback channels show in Cakewalk as following

When you open the ASIO input dialog. 

M2 inputs 1/2 are the physical inputs , (on the M4 there is 1/2 and 3/4 ) 

M2 inputs 3/4 are the virtual loopback input s ( on the M4  5/6 and ? 7/8? )  

In the video he is clearly using ASIO mode. So this might depend on the DAW you use and sharing drivers on how it works. Also I think You tubes use 48 hz so might depend on that too. Your stand alone synth might have the options to share drivers or clock rate. . 

But it looks as easy as setting an audio track in Cakewalk choosing inputs 3/4 and away you go. In other words the loopback features is a simple matter of adding 2 more virtual inputs to the ASIO driver channel list. 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by John Vere

[Misha]

Ok, talked to a guy at Motu. He said it should work.  Routing a standalone program audio to Cakewalk.  We shall see. 

[John Vere]

Just got the M4 and fired it up. Certainly better RTL specs, nothing huge but down to 16ms from 27 I got with the scarlett. thats a setting of 256 Buffer and using lowly 44.1.  It goes down to 6 ms at 64 buffer but playback was distorted. Seem OK at 128 but I always run at 256 to avoid issues. 

And the loopback is as I reported. 

I inserted a new audio track, set the input to Motu M series Loopback 1 and when I engage record I get the signal sent from my master. 

I then opened Wave Lab and played a wave file, returned to Cakewalk and that audio was also coming into the track.  It obviously captures output 1/2 and as said loops it back. So don't see why a stand alone synth or? would not work, The trick will be making sure everything is using the same sample rate and therefore can share the driver.