Audio Drivers Problem/Question

[Bobby Thistle]

Greetings all…

 

This is my first post, but I have been lurking around here for a while.

I’m hoping that I’m posting this in the right place.  But if not, please forgive me.

I am a long time (Sonar Platinum) Cakewalk user.  I go back to Cakewalk 3 (Twelve Tone Systems anyone?)  I made the jump from version 8.5 – which I loved - up to Sonar Platinum once I upgraded to a 64-bit computer.  I loved, and still love that too.  But lately my version started to do little annoying things and I guess my mucking around pressing all kinds of settings here and there just made things worse.

So, out of frustration, I decided to take BandLab up on their offer to give me a completely new install for free.  I can’t help but wonder, if they took over the “product/business” from Gibson and are giving it away, how are they making any money with it?  But this isn’t the reason I’m posting.

Up until today I haven’t been putting any audio tracks in my songs.  I use strictly MIDI with two VERY old modules, a Roland JV-1010 (hundreds of sounds that are still very cool) and a somewhat “newer” Ketron SD2 that also still sounds great.

The modules are connected to an M-Audio 2x2 Anniversary USB MIDI interface and they go into a Mackie ProFX8 (USB) which I also use as my audio interface.  This whole setup is working just fine – for MIDI.

I added an audio track today.  I wanted to record my bass guitar.  Trouble is, the sound isn’t making it into Cakewalk.  I can hear it in the Mackie but that’s as far as it goes.  I should also say that there are no drivers for the Mackie.  It is USB and shows up as a generic soundcard.

As per the audio driver in the Cakewalk setup, my only choice is ASIO4ALL.  I’ve seen where a lot of guys are saying that this driver can be a disaster and should be avoided at all costs.

My question is; is there another 64-bit driver that I can download from somewhere that will make things easier for me and give me the results I want?  Or, is there an audio interface that would make things a lot easier for me out there that won’t break the bank?  I will only be recording one audio track at a time so I don’t need an interface with hundreds of inputs.

I still like the way my Mackie handles both of my MIDI modules.  Could I still use it along side another audio interface?

The perfect scenario would be to just find another driver and use the gear that I already have.  But I have learned that there aren’t very many perfect scenarios in life.

While quickly scanning through some audio interfaces at my favorite music store, I’ve noticed that most only have one MIDI in/out connection.  I have two modules that I want to use.

By now I’m guessing you noticed that I’m no expert when it comes to this stuff.  Therefore, I humbly put my trials and tribulations before all of you, the real experts.

I’m sure that there’s more info you’d need before you can offer me any solutions and I’ll be glad to provide it to you once you tell me what you need.  I guess I should at least tell you that I’m running Win 10.

Any help and suggestions would be gratefully appreciated!

 

 

 

[msmcleod]

5 minutes ago, Oscar Myer said:

I added an audio track today.  I wanted to record my bass guitar.  Trouble is, the sound isn’t making it into Cakewalk.  I can hear it in the Mackie but that’s as far as it goes.  I should also say that there are no drivers for the Mackie.  It is USB and shows up as a generic soundcard.

Have you selected both the audio input on the track, and enabled input echo?

6 minutes ago, Oscar Myer said:

As per the audio driver in the Cakewalk setup, my only choice is ASIO4ALL.  I’ve seen where a lot of guys are saying that this driver can be a disaster and should be avoided at all costs.

My question is; is there another 64-bit driver that I can download from somewhere that will make things easier for me and give me the results I want? 

There aren't any ASIO drivers (or any native drivers for that matter) for the ProFX8. ASIO4ALL is really your best choice here.

7 minutes ago, Oscar Myer said:

Or, is there an audio interface that would make things a lot easier for me out there that won’t break the bank?  I will only be recording one audio track at a time so I don’t need an interface with hundreds of inputs.

I still like the way my Mackie handles both of my MIDI modules.  Could I still use it along side another audio interface?

I would personally recommend any of the Focusrite Scarlett range. The 6i6 is probably the best for your needs, that way you can route the audio out of your ProFX8 into the rear inputs of the 6i6, whilst using the front two for real instruments. 

Shop around though - there may be cheaper options, although IMHO, the 6i6 is best bang for buck for quality/features/price.

13 minutes ago, Oscar Myer said:

While quickly scanning through some audio interfaces at my favorite music store, I’ve noticed that most only have one MIDI in/out connection.  I have two modules that I want to use.

There's no reason you can't continue to use your 2x2 for MIDI. The 6i6 does have one extra port though, which you can use at the same time as your 2x2.

If you need more MIDI ports, I've found the MidiFace 8x8 to be the most reliable for me. I still have my MidiSport 8x8 (the big brother of your 2x2), but the drivers are old and aren't as reliable as the MidiFace.

 

[Gswitz]

I love midi too. 

Windows supports class compliant midi interfaces now. Any USB port can become one or more midi knot output pairs.

For this reason, interfaces are less likely to support lots of midi. They work along side your regular interface without issue.

https://smile.amazon.com/Converter-LiDiVi-Professional-Keyboard-Adapter/dp/B071KLC884/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=midi+usb&qid=1552568440&s=gateway&sr=8-3

[msmcleod]

13 minutes ago, Gswitz said:

I love midi too. 

Windows supports class compliant midi interfaces now. Any USB port can become one or more midi knot output pairs.

For this reason, interfaces are less likely to support lots of midi. They work along side your regular interface without issue.

https://smile.amazon.com/Converter-LiDiVi-Professional-Keyboard-Adapter/dp/B071KLC884/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?keywords=midi+usb&qid=1552568440&s=gateway&sr=8-3

Whilst there are a lot of class compliant MIDI interfaces out there, most of them don't support SysEx properly or heavy MIDI traffic. As the OP is using hardware modules, this may be a consideration.

The M-Audio (MidiSport) range, MidiFace & MOTU are ones that definitely behave with SysEx and heavy MIDI traffic.

I've not tried them, but I suspect the Roland and Yamaha interfaces are fine too.

Unless you're just recording notes and basic controller information, I'd avoid the USB to MIDI cables out there. They won't be suitable for any synth patch editors.

[Bobby Thistle]

I'm thinking that I'll pull the trigger on the Focusrite as it sounds like an easy way to cure my problems.

Can I plug the line outs on the Focusrite into their own channel on the Mackie - again, using the Mackie as a sound card?  I'm thinking yes but I have been known to be wrong - especially in wiring up gear. ?

Another option I have is to daisy chain my two MIDI modules and plug them into the Focusrite.  But to do this I have to be taken by the hand and shown how to do this. ?

Thanks to all for the replies... very much appreciated!!!

[msmcleod]

4 minutes ago, Oscar Myer said:

I'm thinking that I'll pull the trigger on the Focusrite as it sounds like an easy way to cure my problems.

Can I plug the line outs on the Focusrite into their own channel on the Mackie - again, using the Mackie as a sound card?  I'm thinking yes but I have been known to be wrong - especially in wiring up gear. ?

Another option I have is to daisy chain my two MIDI modules and plug them into the Focusrite.  But to do this I have to be taken by the hand and shown how to do this. ?

Thanks to all for the replies... very much appreciated!!!

I'd recommend using the Focusrite as your main audio device, and plugging the outputs from your Mackie into the rear inputs on the Focusrite, and do away with the USB connection from the Mackie to your PC.

Keep using your M-Audio 2x2 to plug into your two MIDI modules. As they're both multi-timbral devices, you don't want them running on the same MIDI out.

For recording, you've now got a choice:

Use the front two inputs on the Focusrite (the pre-amps are great BTW); or

1. Run everything through your Mackie, and set your audio input to be inputs 3/4 of the Focusrite within Cakewalk.
2. Personally I'd recommend option 1 (unless your mixing down your MIDI module sounds).

So essentially what you have is:

Sound Modules -> Mackie -> (via audio out)-> Focusrite Inputs 3/4  ;  Focusrite outputs 1/2 -> Monitor Speakers.

You could do it the other way around I guess, so take the output from the Focusrite and feed it to the input of the Mackie, then connect the Mackie to your monitors. However, this means unplugging your sound modules any time you need to record them as audio.

So I'd recommend feeding the Mackie into the Focusrite, essentially using your Mackie as a mixer only.

[Gswitz]

My Roland usb to midi words fine.

[John Vere]

First- Your only problem is the lack of good audio driver for the Mackie mixer. if it had an ASIO driver you would not need to buy anything.  But don't toss it aside yet. 

Option 1- Make the Mackie work with asio4all or WASAPI.  . The Mackie might not support WASAPI which would be the first thing you should try.  If that doesn't work  go ahead and download asio4 I used it for over a year for just midi work, not audio and it was fine.  Not ideal because there can be timing issues when not using ASIO drivers.If your plan is to work with audio then you really need an ASIO driver to avoid audio syncing issues.   Asio4all is NOT ASIO, it is a WDM wrapper. 

Option 2- Purchase 2x2 Audio interface and run the stereo outputs of the Mackie to the interface. Before you buy an interface read my shopping list of features, the interface that works for one person is not always the one that will work for you.  http://www.cactusmusic.ca/Recording.htm#AI Shopping List   

This way you can keep all your stuff plugged into the mixer and save money on a simple interface. All you would need is any 2x2 interface which are around $100. ( example this-https://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces/low2high?params=eyJmYWNldCI6eyJOdW1iZXIgb2YgUHJlYW1wcyI6WyIyIl19fQ

Downside might be this won't work if the Mackie mixer doesn't have a way to isolate the headphone mix so the DAW playback does not get sent to the main outputs.  Then you go to option 3 or 4. 

Option 3- An audio interface with all the connections you require so you can retire the Mackie.  Example this one https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/US16x08--tascam-us-16x08-usb-audio-interface

Option 4 - A USB Mixer with proper drivers https://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Soundcraft/?m=Soundcraft&sb=&pn=&params=&hide_info=

There are other small mixers that come with ASIO drivers but I choose this one as it had exactly the features I needed. I just started using mine as an interface just a few days ago and it work brilliantly.  We bought it for our duo and have only used the USB for playback.

I'm recording about 5 things right now, Vocal, Acoustic, electric, dobro and mandolin. I've also dusted off my old Korg 05/Rw and a Lexicon reverb unit.  With the mixer I can leave everything plugged in and ready to go. I also have a Tascam 1641 which has 14 inputs, but the mixer gives me a full blown channel strip for each instrument. It even has a Hiz input which seems to improve the tone of my Mandolins PU. There a limiter on the vocals which helps catch overs.  It has many monitoring options and what I chose was to use AUX 1 and 2 as my sends to the DAW leaving the mains as my hadphone and studio monitor mix. You can even solo channels.  I just mute all inputs but the one I'm using. And the headphone mx is LOUD. something you don't always get with most interfaces. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Cactus Music

[Bobby Thistle]

Well...  I picked up the FocusRite 6i6 this afternoon and just put it through it's tests.  I'm not going to lie...  I'm totally ecstatic with the results it gave me!!!

Hooking it up was easy.  In the back,  from the numbers 1 and 2 outputs I have it plugged into it's own channel on the Mackie, which allows me to monitor everything through my phones on the Mackie... audio and MIDI.  I'm actually thinking that I'll leave it hooked up the way it is because I prefer the bigger sliders and phone knobs on the mixer as opposed to the little knobs on the 6i6.

That being said, I will review the responses you all gave me to see how to hook up my M-Audio 2x2 MIDI interface into the FocusRite and have everything coming from it  into the mixer which I'll keep just for monitoring.

Thanks Mark for your fantastic suggestion about picking up the FocusRite.  All my problems were solved in just the amount of time it took me to get it set up.

In fact, thanks to all who sent replies!!!  So much appreciated. ?

[msmcleod]

3 minutes ago, Oscar Myer said:

That being said, I will review the responses you all gave me to see how to hook up my M-Audio 2x2 MIDI interface into the FocusRite and have everything coming from it  into the mixer which I'll keep just for monitoring.

MIDI is MIDI, Audio is Audio... they're two separate things.

You don't want the M-Audio 2x2 plugged into your Focusrite at all. Just plug it into a spare USB slot on your PC like you always did.

P.S. I'm really pleased the 6i6 has worked out for you. It's a great sounding interface

Edited March 14, 2019 by msmcleod

[Bobby Thistle]

Yep... I think you're right, Mark.  Everything is running smoothly the way it is set up now.  Best to leave it as is.  The less time spent plugging and unplugging and getting frustrated when it doesn't work, the more time I'll have to make music.  After all, isn't that why I have all this gear?  ?

[John Vere]

Well what you've done is bought an interface that  falls short of your requirement. 

You mention not wanting to swap cables around but you will do exactly this because the 6i6 only has the 2 rear panel line inputs and you said you have 2 stereo sound modules you depend on.  So to record the 4 tracks needed you'll have to use the front panel inputs as well. No problem, but then when you go to record your guitar or vocals you'll be swapping cables and setting the line/instrument toggle in mix control.  

You could use your mixer, but looking at it's options for monitoring   it's a bit of a cludge too. You could plug everything in but now your forced to  have only 2 tracks out and use the AUx 1 and effects sends to hear the DAW playback.  

[msmcleod]

2 minutes ago, Cactus Music said:

Well what you've done is bought an interface that  falls short of your requirement. 

You mention not wanting to swap cables around but you will do exactly this because the 6i6 only has the 2 rear panel line inputs and you said you have 2 stereo sound modules you depend on.  So to record the 4 tracks needed you'll have to use the front panel inputs as well. No problem, but then when you go to record your guitar or vocals you'll be swapping cables and setting the line/instrument toggle in mix control.  

You could use your mixer, but looking at it's options for monitoring   it's a bit of a cludge too. You could plug everything in but now your forced to  have only 2 tracks out and use the AUx 1 and effects sends to hear the DAW playback.  

The 6i6 should be fine.

I have a 12U rack full of modules, that go into a sub mixer ending up as a stereo input to my audio interface.

I normally leave my MIDI modules running "live" until the song is ready to mix. Only at that point will I record them as audio. Then I just solo the MIDI tracks one by one and record them as audio.

If the OP's sound modules are both plugged into the Mackie, with the stereo output of the Mackie going into the rear of the 6i6, then the front two inputs are left free. And with the 6i6 set to always send inputs 3&4 to the monitor out, the sound modules (via the Mackie) can be heard alongside any audio tracks within Cakewalk.

I see nothing wrong with this setup.

[John Vere]

Not saying his set up is bad, but would he have not been just as far ahead with a 2i2? I fail to see the extra money for the 6i6 is worth it in this situation. He already has midi, and if what you are doing is recording the modules in separate passes then 2x2 would suffice.  I have a 6i6. In reality it is only a 4x4 for most people unless you own a SPDIF device.