How Can This Be Happening???????

[Rfcousins]

11 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

As a former professional software QA engineer, with such a precise (and well-observed, I might add) symptom, there are questions to be asked outside of the usual "running out of memory" "bad drive," etc.

The most important one is: what event happens on your system each time you open (or possibly save or close) a project? There is some event, such as initializing the ASIO driver, the MIDI port, something like that. After the 22nd time, it breaks something. Software bugs are sometimes like this.

My guess, since it stops happening when you disconnect the TASCAM (good troubleshooting, BTW), is that there is something going on either in its driver or in the hardware itself. It can only take being reinitialized (or whatever) 22 times before going into an error condition. Did the change in the number of projects opened coincide with a change in buffer size? If you switch to WASAPI driver mode, does it still exhibit the problem?

It is a little unusual to open and save 22 projects in a row, so it's possible that TASCAM didn't test for this exact condition in the driver software or the interface's firmware. In any case, you have identified the component that is most likely the source of the issue: your audio interface. Contact TASCAM and see if anyone else has experienced similar issues.

Great advice. I will test and report tomorrow. I also copied your post to Tascam support for reaction.

Regards,

Roger

16 hours ago, LarsF said:

"Where would I check on the pagefile setting etc?"

Starship Krupa mentioned it above, rather early task manager Performance tab.

How much physical memory are you having free just booted computer?
You have 24 GB in your specs for computer. So around 20 GB free is probably close.

How much free as Cakewalk is started?
How much after first project loaded?
How much after 2nd project loaded?

....and so forth.

Are you getting less and less free memory all the time?
A little is normal depending how much a project contains in sampler plugin instances etc.

So when getting to 17th - what does it say in free memory in Performance tab?
You can also look at memory in the Processes tab, how much Cakewalk alone is using.
But overall free memory in system will probably do - it probably says available physical memory somewhere.


When you start getting above 75% of physical ram memory used, windows is starting to use pagefile swapping to virtual memory, This is simply using a file on disk as temporary storage to extend capabilities overall what can run.

But just below 10 GB memory or so available might having system use pagefile, so just get the number of what task manager Performance says is free when you feel system is getting slow.

Since you had harddrives earlier this would use some memory as read cache for things you loaded. Now using SSD this read caching is not needed in the same way, since reading arbitrary spot on disk is so much faster and read caching.

So mission is
- put a number here on forum for taskmanager available memory as you getting a slow system(17th load or whatever)
- size of pagefile or virtual memory also put that number here

That will give clues what is going on....

Great advice,

I will get after testing this tomorrow !

Regards.

Roger

[jackson white]

What is the make and model of your motherboard?

fwiw, I'm using a US-20x20 into a USB 3.1 port on a rack mount PC.

[Will.]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:36 PM, Rfcousins said:

Here is the latest observation: This does not occur when connected to USB2.0 port.

 

It this doesn't happen on USB 2.0 ports - That means you're using the USB2.0 cables. Double check and make sure you're using the USB 3.0 cables for 3.0 ports that came with it. 

Tascam USB20X20 USB3.0 comes with both USB3.0 cables and USB2.0 cables. 

Also check if you dont have a forgotten Asio4All drivers installed on you system still. 

Both my Scarlett and Twin had problems having both interface drivers and Asio4All drivers on the system. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Will_Kaydo

[Rfcousins]

19 hours ago, jackson white said:

What is the make and model of your motherboard?

fwiw, I'm using a US-20x20 into a USB 3.1 port on a rack mount PC.

Motherboard is ASUS P8P67-M..........USB 3.0 port on the motherboard. I tried a FebSmart 3.1 card from Amazon and the USB 20x20 was recognized but Cakewalk was locked/frozen trying to access. Aside from this 17-23 project (Not respronding) issue, all else seems to be fine.

Thanks for weighing in!

Roger

[Rfcousins]

10 hours ago, Will_Kaydo said:

It this doesn't happen on USB 2.0 ports - That means you're using the USB2.0 cables. Double check and make sure you're using the USB 3.0 cables for 3.0 ports that came with it. 

Tascam USB20X20 USB3.0 comes with both USB3.0 cables and USB2.0 cables. 

Also check if you dont have a forgotten Asio4All drivers installed on you system still. 

Both my Scarlett and Twin had problems having both interface drivers and Asio4All drivers on the system. 

Actually, my US-20x20 only came with the USB 3.0 cable. My sense was that the difference was in the plug type that connects to the interface. The computer connection seems the same as USB 2.0 . Anyway, this is the only cable that I have tried as it is the one that connects to the interface properly. Never have used/installed Asio4All drivers.

Thanks again for the input.

Roger

[Rfcousins]

9 minutes ago, Rfcousins said:

Actually, my US-20x20 only came with the USB 3.0 cable. My sense was that the difference was in the plug type that connects to the interface. The computer connection seems the same as USB 2.0 . Anyway, this is the only cable that I have tried as it is the one that connects to the interface properly. Never have used/installed Asio4All drivers.

Thanks again for the input.

Roger

UPDATE: I found the USB2.0 cable for the Tascam. I have been using the USB3.0 cable exclusively for sure. Is it bad to use the USB3.0 cable in a 2.0 port??????

Maybe a question for Tascam?

Regards,

Roger

[Will.]

54 minutes ago, Rfcousins said:

UPDATE: I found the USB2.0 cable for the Tascam. I have been using the USB3.0 cable exclusively for sure. Is it bad to use the USB3.0 cable in a 2.0 port??????

Maybe a question for Tascam?

Regards,

Roger

There you have it.

USB 2.0 cable goes in 2.0 USB port

And  . . . 

USB 3.0 cable goes in 3.0 USB ports. (Requires Windows 10.) Have you tried to update you ports drivers on windows 10? 

Read here:

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-do-i-update-my-pcs-usb-3-0-chipset-drivers/

Also: 

https://tascam.com/us/product/us-20x20/feature

Edited December 4, 2020 by Will_Kaydo

[Rfcousins]

On 12/3/2020 at 12:28 AM, LarsF said:

"Where would I check on the pagefile setting etc?"

Starship Krupa mentioned it above, rather early task manager Performance tab.

How much physical memory are you having free just booted computer?
You have 24 GB in your specs for computer. So around 20 GB free is probably close.

How much free as Cakewalk is started?
How much after first project loaded?
How much after 2nd project loaded?

....and so forth.

Are you getting less and less free memory all the time?
A little is normal depending how much a project contains in sampler plugin instances etc.

So when getting to 17th - what does it say in free memory in Performance tab?
You can also look at memory in the Processes tab, how much Cakewalk alone is using.
But overall free memory in system will probably do - it probably says available physical memory somewhere.


When you start getting above 75% of physical ram memory used, windows is starting to use pagefile swapping to virtual memory, This is simply using a file on disk as temporary storage to extend capabilities overall what can run.

But just below 10 GB memory or so available might having system use pagefile, so just get the number of what task manager Performance says is free when you feel system is getting slow.

Since you had harddrives earlier this would use some memory as read cache for things you loaded. Now using SSD this read caching is not needed in the same way, since reading arbitrary spot on disk is so much faster and read caching.

So mission is
- put a number here on forum for taskmanager available memory as you getting a slow system(17th load or whatever)
- size of pagefile or virtual memory also put that number here

That will give clues what is going on....

[Rfcousins]

Just now, Rfcousins said:

This is the Task Manager as requested just as the (Not Responding) event is recurring with each new project load.

Regards,

Roger

[Rfcousins]

UPDATE: I have been doing a lot of testing today. Thanks to all who have offered their suggestions.

Here's what I can say for sure.

1. There are no issues with (Not Responding) appearing when loading a project if the USB 20x20 is connected to a USB 2.0 port. This is true no matter what type cable is use (3.0 or 2.0).

2. There appear to be no issues regarding memory or pagefile use.

3. Once the behavior is occurring I can clear the issue by simply turning the USB 20x20 off and back on. (This I discovered today).

SO...............How do I determine if this is a problem with the USB 20X20 or my USB3.0 Ports???????? I am thinking it's the ports since the USB 20x20 works flawlessly when used with USB 2.0. Ports.  Maybe I am wrong and it is the 20X20 driver when it is in USB 3.0 mode?????

Happy to have everyone weigh in on what's next to test  or consider.

#3 above sure make continuing to work a lot easier than having to reboot every 23 projects!

Regards to All,

Roger

[Will.]

14 minutes ago, Rfcousins said:

This is the Task Manager as requested just as the (Not Responding) event is recurring with each new project load.

Regards,

Roger

But if you say the problem goes away when you unplug the Interface (by the way I'm jealous of it ?) or, when you plug it in to a USB 2.0 port, that shouts "connection" issue - not so? 

 

Update your USB ports - all of them, and let's take it from there again. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Will_Kaydo

[Rfcousins]

16 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

There you have it.

USB 2.0 cable goes in 2.0 USB port

And  . . . 

USB 3.0 cable goes in 3.0 USB ports. (Requires Windows 10.) Have you tried to update you ports drivers on windows 10? 

Read here:

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/how-do-i-update-my-pcs-usb-3-0-chipset-drivers/

Also: 

https://tascam.com/us/product/us-20x20/feature

Thanks again. Nothing I didn't know here. Have updated drivers etc and even tried rollbacks to correct. I posted some refined findings today for everyone to look at.

The cable idea was worth a try, but unfortunately did not make a difference. At this moment I am feeling that there is an issue with the USB 3.0 ports on my motherboard that goes beyond drivers. Maybe be I need to try another add-on card.

Regards,

Roger

[Will.]

6 minutes ago, Rfcousins said:

Thanks again. Nothing I didn't know here. Have updated drivers etc and even tried rollbacks to correct. I posted some refined findings today for everyone to look at.

The cable idea was worth a try, but unfortunately did not make a difference. At this moment I am feeling that there is an issue with the USB 3.0 ports on my motherboard that goes beyond drivers. Maybe be I need to try another add-on card.

Regards,

Roger

What's the brand and model number of your motherboard? 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Will_Kaydo

[Rfcousins]

7 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

But if you say the problem goes away when you unplug the Interface (by the way I'm jealous of it ?) or, when you plug it in to a USB 2.0 port, that shouts "connection" issue - not so? 

 

Update your USB ports - all of them, and let's take it from there again. 

I tend to agree that the computer is dropping the connection to the interface. (Power on/off) corrects connection. Big question is: Is the interface driver dropping the computer or is the USB3.0 driver dropping the interface. I am a live performer (when there is no Covid) so I don't need this happening in the middle of a set. I am frustrated to be locked down in my NC vacation home, because I have a Zoom UAC-2 USB3.0 interface in FL that I could use for comparisons to check the USB 3.0 ports.

I appreciate all of your input.

ROger

[Rfcousins]

1 minute ago, Will_Kaydo said:

What's the brand and model number of your motherboard? 

Asus micro ATX Model P8P67-M.

I suspect the USB 3.0 ports. When Presonus first released their USB 3.0 interface (forget name) , I ordered one from Sweetwater and could not make it work at all. I let tech support there remote connect and after over an hour of struggling, they gave up and I returned the unit. The Tascam on the other hand installed and seemed to work flawlessly until this recent discovery popped up. Additionally this all came about because my Presonus Firestudio stopped working after WIN 10 updates after VER 1803. Presonus is not supporting the Firestudio any more. I said in my other post , I wish I had my Zoom interface for comparison. Also I don't have this problem on my Lenovo Thinkpad T530 running USB 3.0. More ammo to point to the USB ports on the motherboard.

 

Regards,

Roger

 

[Will.]

2 minutes ago, Rfcousins said:

 or is the USB3.0 driver dropping the interface.

This problem stand out way more than any other issues in discussion at the moment. 

That's why my focus are locked in on this. The only solution that worked for me, was the drivers from the manufacturer's website. 

[Rfcousins]

2 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

This problem stand out way more than any other issues in discussion at the moment. 

That's why my focus are locked in on this. The only solution that worked for me, was the drivers from the manufacturer's website. 

Ok! I will revisit the drivers one more time! Appreciate your support.

Roger

[Rfcousins]

1 minute ago, Rfcousins said:

Ok! I will revisit the drivers one more time! Appreciate your support.

Roger

Just looked at the Asus website again. I guess the problem is that there are NO drivers there for WIN 10. Obsolete motherboard might be the issue. It is 10 years old now.  Installed drivers are:

[Will.]

2 minutes ago, Rfcousins said:

Ok! I will revisit the drivers one more time! Appreciate your support.

Roger

Okay - this is what I stumbled on so far. 

"Your motherboards drivers stops at Windows 8.1."

However . . . I is fixable with a Bios and Firmware update, but - I highly do not recommend you to do this and discourage you from ever thinking to try it! if you've never done this before. This will destroy your PC and you'll have to replace your bios chip. Yep I used to be in I.T

 

 

[Will.]

10 minutes ago, Rfcousins said:

Just looked at the Asus website again. I guess the problem is that there are NO drivers there for WIN 10. Obsolete motherboard might be the issue. It is 10 years old now.  Installed drivers are:

Yeah. Are you still considering the hardware?