Amplitube 5 is here - Release Date 15/12/20 or 16/12/20

[fitzroy]

7 hours ago, Greg said:

I am just afraid to order it now before AT5 is out because I don't know if ordering AXE I/O with Max will cause an issue once AT5 is out.  The announcements thus far could have been a little clearer. 

I'm considering that option as well to replace my Motu interface, which is superior in several areas to the Axe I/O, but is not guitar centered and, most importantly, is Firewire, which kills portability/flexibility.

I'm no fan of IK in general, or their occasional tendencies to screw over their customer base, but come on, what issues are you thinking of? I think it's highly unlikely there'll be any. I mean, imagine getting the Axe I/O + AT5 bundle, finding out they don't work well together, contacting support and being pointed to a paragraph in the small print that basically says...  just because we sell them as a bundle doesn't mean they're supposed to work together. 

     

[telecode 101]

1 hour ago, fitzroy said:

I'm considering that option as well to replace my Motu interface, which is superior in several areas to the Axe I/O, but is not guitar centered and, most importantly, is Firewire, which kills portability/flexibility.

I'm no fan of IK in general, or their occasional tendencies to screw over their customer base, but come on, what issues are you thinking of? I think it's highly unlikely there'll be any. I mean, imagine getting the Axe I/O + AT5 bundle, finding out they don't work well together, contacting support and being pointed to a paragraph in the small print that basically says...  just because we sell them as a bundle doesn't mean they're supposed to work together. 

     

To honest, I am also looking at this possibility as I have been on the market considering a interface upgrade. I am debating between the Axe I/O & AT 5 deal vs RME Babeface and S-gear deal.

 

I think if you get the Axe I/O interface, you just get a separate serial code for AT 5 which is separate and distinct from whatever AT 4 serial codes you have.

Can someone confirm for sure, the AT 5 code you would get with the Axe I/O is not valid for any future crossgrade or upgrade promotions?

[fitzroy]

6 minutes ago, telecode 101 said:

I think if you get the Axe I/O interface, you just get a separate serial code for AT 5 which is separate and distinct from whatever AT 4 serial codes you have.

Can someone confirm for sure, the AT 5 code you would get with the Axe I/O is not valid for any future crossgrade or upgrade promotions?

What do you mean? That you wouldn't be able to upgrade from your AT5 Max to, say, AT6 Max in the future? ? Why would that be? It's a bundle, not a freebie. I'm thinking the same should apply for reselling. Just in case the interface is ok but the AT5 is cr*p. Or vice versa ?

[Larry Shelby]

3 minutes ago, fitzroy said:

What do you mean? That you wouldn't be able to upgrade from your AT5 Max to, say, AT6 Max in the future? ? Why would that be? It's a bundle, not a freebie. I'm thinking the same should apply for reselling. Just in case the interface is ok but the AT5 is cr*p. Or vice versa ?

According to the rules at IK, a product has to be a PAID version in order to upgrade, therefore if you received it "with" a Hardware Product
it is NOT considered a PAID version.  I received Amplitube 4 Max with my Axe I/O, and it is NOT a "Paid" version.
It's a SHYSTER move on IK's part to generate more revenue, but will actually have the OPPOSITE effect!

[fitzroy]

1 minute ago, cclarry said:

According to the rules at IK, a product has to be a PAID version in order to upgrade, therefore if you received it "with" a Hardware Product
it is NOT considered a PAID version.  I received Amplitube 4 Max with my Axe I/O, and it is NOT a "Paid" version.
It's a SHYSTER move on IK's part to generate more revenue, but will actually have the OPPOSITE effect!

Daaamn, I didn't know that. MAYBE I'd understand for a promotional freebie, but why on earth would they do that for something that is clearly perceived by the buyer as  a bundle purchase ("I buy hardware x if/because you throw in software y")? And what the hell is a 'paid' version anyway? The current Axe I/O + AT5 Max bundle costs more than the Axe I/O alone. So you are paying something for it, doesn't that make it a paid version? 

[Larry Shelby]

23 minutes ago, fitzroy said:

Daaamn, I didn't know that. MAYBE I'd understand for a promotional freebie, but why on earth would they do that for something that is clearly perceived by the buyer as  a bundle purchase ("I buy hardware x if/because you throw in software y")? And what the hell is a 'paid' version anyway? The current Axe I/O + AT5 Max bundle costs more than the Axe I/O alone. So you are paying something for it, doesn't that make it a paid version? 

I agree with ALL of that...unfortunately, they do not....

[Matthew Sorrels]

1 hour ago, cclarry said:

I received Amplitube 4 Max with my Axe I/O, and it is NOT a "Paid" version.

Given the blow out deals on Total Studio and the general devaluing their Max versions, I doubt owning the paid or not paid versions of any IK product will ever make a difference in upgrade pricing again.  If they don't actually offer real update pricing, it won't matter how you get Amplitube 5 Max.

[Soundwise]

I agree with Matthew.

Just think about this in hardware terms. When your favorite manufacturer releases a new shiny piece of crap box of wonder, you usually don't get to update or upgrade your existing device for peanuts. Only a modest discount, if at all. Second hand outdated mass production models are often dirty cheap and hard to (re-)sell. 

I think IKM is moving in the right direction, providing both hardware and software of outstanding quality.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Soundwise

[Marc Cormier]

I couldn't MAX grade after getting the AXE I/0 & AT4 MAX combo last year.  Guess I need to read the finer print with IK.  I mean, its a BUNDLE and said nothing about getting AT4Max for "FREE".    Even with the TS2 crossgrade price where it's at, I have no interest in doing anything but piecemeal; way too many other vendors to do business with than to jump into an ecosystem and this nickel-and-dime upgrade game.  I guess the thing with IK is that it doesn't work for a lot of heavily invested customers but it CAN work with patience and when the fire sales happen.  Unfortunately, that can be a long wait for the latest, greatest stuff.  I'll get AT5 to see if it even gets Amplitube on my radar for future products.  I don't use AT4 now, but maybe AT5 will do what I need it to do with revamped cabs, etc.

[Larry Shelby]

I disagree...if you get Amplitude Max, then you should qualify for "MaxGrades", but you don't.
It's like not owning it at all...it becomes "Fluff" that comes with the hardware....and becomes
useless in terms of a "long term investment".  This is bad business, as you've alienated customers
who would most likely PAY for upgrades, but have been kept out of the upgrade loop, and are
then FORCED to pay for MORE products to be able to "stay in the game".

[Greg]

2 hours ago, fitzroy said:

What do you mean? That you wouldn't be able to upgrade from your AT5 Max to, say, AT6 Max in the future? ? Why would that be? It's a bundle, not a freebie. I'm thinking the same should apply for reselling. Just in case the interface is ok but the AT5 is cr*p. Or vice versa ?

I mean, I worry about buying it today and getting AT 4 Max today and then I get caught in some situation where I'm told I only get AT 5 SE because it was bundled with AT 4 MAX.

[fitzroy]

 

54 minutes ago, Soundwise said:

Just think about this in hardware terms. When your favorite manufacturer releases a new shiny piece of crap box of wonder, you usually don't get to update or upgrade your existing device for peanuts. Only a modest discount, if at all. Second hand outdated mass production models are often dirty cheap and hard to (re-)sell.

Apples and oranges. You have fixed costs related to hardware that are significant, no matter how small an upgrade is. That's why the lifecycle of hardware is and will always be different. With software, you can port the algorithms from a previous version, upgrade the UI, add-on features as needed, and charge only/mostly for the actual extra development work involved, hence the viability of a crossgrade/upgrade path. 

47 minutes ago, Greg said:

I mean, I worry about buying it today and getting AT 4 Max today and then I get caught in some situation where I'm told I only get AT 5 SE because it was bundled with AT 4 MAX.

Well, based on what's been said here, definitely don't get that bundle unless it is the bundle with AT 5 Max. And it's still not clear to me if that will qualify for future upgrades/crossgrades, even though you ARE in fact, paying extra to get it, compared to the price of the hardware alone. 

[Grem]

The way I understand it, and ALL IK users must keep this in mind:

Like Matt pointed out, IK doesn't do upgrades.

So if you buy any software from them today, you will never be able to upgrade it.

You will be given the option to buy another version at a discount intro price. And that statement is based on past IK history and subject to change at any moment. : )

 

Now, to me that doesn't make sense to keep long time customers happy. But what the hey, I keep buying!! So they must know something!!  

There is only one product from IK that I paid full price for. One. Everything else was a intro price or BOGx free.

[Larry Shelby]

27 minutes ago, Grem said:

The way I understand it, and ALL IK users must keep this in mind:

Like Matt pointed out, IK doesn't do upgrades.

So if you buy any software from them today, you will never be able to upgrade it.

You will be given the option to buy another version at a discount intro price. And that statement is based on past IK history and subject to change at any moment. : )

 

Now, to me that doesn't make sense to keep long time customers happy. But what the hey, I keep buying!! So they must know something!!  

There is only one product from IK that I paid full price for. One. Everything else was a intro price or BOGx free.

They don't do "upgrades" but they DO do (I said do do?) "Crossgrades" and "MaxGrades", which are basically the same thing...only 
with a different "nomenclature"!

Edited November 2, 2020 by cclarry

[Grem]

1 hour ago, cclarry said:

which are basically the same thing...only 
with a different "nomenclature"!

And that's their justification!!!

What ever helps them sleep at night!! LOL

[Matthew Sorrels]

Their page that shows what qualifies for what is kind of crazy.

https://www.ikmultimedia.com/eligibilitycheck/

But Larry is right they do have three classes of discounts: Upgrade, Crossgrade, or Maxgrade

But I think it's safe to assume that whatever you own will never qualify for any of them -- if and only if the discount for that level is actually a good deal.

[Soundwise]

4 hours ago, fitzroy said:

You have fixed costs related to hardware that are significant, no matter how small an upgrade is.

Not necessarily so. Sometimes adding a little capacitor can make an obvious difference. Keely made his name by modding solid state pedals, Randall Smith started his business by modding tube amps. Such modes are not expensive if you're a DIY aficionado and  know exactly what to do. They won't take too much time either.

On the other hand, developing software that is compatible with various platforms, performs relatively glitch and bug free across millions of devices worldwide isn't as easy as swapping tubes or replacing RC elements in PCBs.

4 hours ago, fitzroy said:

With software, you can port the algorithms from a previous version, upgrade the UI, add-on features as needed, and charge only/mostly for the actual extra development work involved, hence the viability of a crossgrade/upgrade path. 

Hard or easy, "there are no user serviceable parts inside". You can't take a plugin and enhance its code, include new algorithms, etc on your own. It takes a company with highly qualified personnel to do only extra development work, like adding new features or upgrading the UI. If we want such company to exist, we must support it.

[fitzroy]

11 minutes ago, Soundwise said:

Not necessarily so. Sometimes adding a little capacitor can make an obvious difference. Keely made his name by modding solid state pedals, Randall Smith started his business by modding tube amps. Such modes are not expensive if you're a DIY aficionado and  know exactly what to do. They won't take too much time either.

On the other hand, developing software that is compatible with various platforms, performs relatively glitch and bug free across millions of devices worldwide isn't as easy as swapping tubes or replacing RC elements in PCBs.

Hard or easy, "there are no user serviceable parts inside". You can't take a plugin and enhance its code, include new algorithms, etc on your own. It takes a company with highly qualified personnel to do only extra development work, like adding new features or upgrading the UI. If we want such company to exist, we must support it.

 

How much of the hardware that's being sold today is upgraded that way? 0.0001%? Capacitors? If you're a hobbyist (and I am), sure. Beyond that, welcome to the age of integrated circuits; anything goes wrong with/on the main board of a modern appliance, the service center of the manufacturer will just change it, they won't even bother looking at it: not cost effective, until the fault rate exceeds set limits and a pattern emerges. As for the software part, I don't see the point. No one was talking about not supporting the company, but about paying for actual added value. 

 

52 minutes ago, Matthew Sorrels said:

But I think it's safe to assume that whatever you own will never qualify for any of them -- if and only if the discount for that level is actually a good deal.

I think this is the key, and what separates IK's customers. If you're like me, and you pick and choose from IK's offerings whenever something feels like great value, while staying away the rest of the time, their business practices don't matter that much; with all the sales and no pressure, whatever deal I get will be good enough for me not to feel cheated. But I completely understand where Larry is coming from, and his frustration: he feels a lot more connected to the brand, has invested a lot more money in it, and is questioning the value he's getting in return. It's all relative and personal in the end. 

[Soundwise]

3 minutes ago, fitzroy said:

How much of the hardware that's being sold today is upgraded that way? 0.0001%? Capacitors? If you're a hobbyist (and I am), sure. Beyond that, welcome to the age of integrated circuits; anything goes wrong with/on the main board of a modern appliance, the service center of the manufacturer will just change it, they won't even bother looking at it: not cost effective, until the fault rate exceeds set limits and a pattern emerges. As for the software part, I don't see the point. No one was talking about not supporting the company, but about paying for actual added value.

Good point! Today's hardware is actually more software, or should I say, firmware based. In that case hardware has a very limited life span and usage scenarios. I wasn't talking about such stuff, though.

Paying for actual added value is what IK's Custom Shop is all about, isn't it? In a complex product such as Amplitube it's hard to separate added value from inherent value, provided that the new version is a major overhaul. New gear, new GUI, new routing, new algorithms, new technologies, new everything doesn't sound like a bunch of ported algorithms (whatever that means) and some added value (vague term, but I get the idea).

I agree that people who purchased licenses for additional products, such as individual gear items, collections or bundles should be entitled to pay only for the new "shell" (for the lack of a better word) and retain the license grade (MAX to MAX, etc). However we, the users, can't make the company to accept our offered price on our terms. It's not a flea market. So why bother?

I'm trying figure out how to cope with their business model, that's it.

[fitzroy]

17 minutes ago, Soundwise said:

Good point! Today's hardware is actually more software, or should I say, firmware based. In that case hardware has a very limited life span and usage scenarios. I wasn't talking about such stuff, though.

Paying for actual added value is what IK's Custom Shop is all about, isn't it? In a complex product such as Amplitube it's hard to separate added value from inherent value, provided that the new version is a major overhaul. New gear, new GUI, new routing, new algorithms, new technologies, new everything doesn't sound like a bunch of ported algorithms (whatever that means) and some added value (vague term, but I get the idea).

True, Amplitube is complex enough that you can evaluate the added value in many ways. I'm curious about the new cab section, but I would have been more excited if there was a new take on preamp modeling as well. To my ears, that's where the likes of S-Gear and the Neural DSP plugins stand out. After all, we have solid options nowadays to tweak the sound 'downstream', with good/inexpensive IR's. And I like the concept of the Custom Shop. I don't like having to browse through stuff I don't own though, or the annoying preset warnings. That must have been the idea of the same genius that decided it's awesome to have all TRackS installed, no matter how many you own. 

17 minutes ago, Soundwise said:

I agree that people who purchased licenses for additional products, such as individual gear items, collections or bundles should be entitled to pay only for the new "shell" (for the lack of a better word) and retain the license grade (MAX to MAX, etc). However we, the users, can't make the company to accept our offered price on our terms. It's not a flea market. So why bother?

I'm trying figure out how to cope with their business model, that's it.

As I was writing above, their business model hasn't affected me much, and I hope it stays the same. But they sure have a messy way of dealing with things, and I understand where the frustration is coming from, especially from people who are a lot more invested into their product line.