Recording from dedicated MIDI sequencer into Bandlab Cakewalk

[tdehan]

I have a number of compositions I created many years ago on my Yamaha SY77.  The SY77 has a built in multi voice sequencer but uses it's own proprietary file format meaning it does not save as a .mid file format.  I would like to get these sequences into Cakewalk and have a couple questions:

1.  If I connect a MIDI cable from the SY77 OUT into my UMC404HD which supports MIDI and play the sequence on my SY77, will Cakewalk record the sequence and separate all the individual tracks?  If so is there anything in particular I need to setup within Cakewalk prior to doing this?

2. I assume I would need to have Cakewalk listen for a MIDI clock start command?  If so, how is this setup in Cakewalk?

Thanks in advance!

Edited September 18, 2020 by tdehan

[twelvetone]

This might help:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR X2&language=4&help=Synchronizing.05.html

[twelvetone]

H'm. Well, I'm trying this with my Yamaha QY100 and I must say, it's not working.

Now I also want to know...

[msmcleod]

It's been 20 years or so since I've done this, but I do remember that it was far more reliable for me to slave the hardware device to Cakewalk than the other way around.

[tdehan]

47 minutes ago, twelvetone said:

This might help:

https://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=SONAR X2&language=4&help=Synchronizing.05.html

Ok, so it sounds like Cakewalk needs to be the SLAVE and my SY77 the MASTER in this case.  Cool.  What about my other question?

[tdehan]

Also, according to this link, http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation?product=Cakewalk&language=4&help=Synchronizing.05.html in order to configure Cakewalk to be the SLAVE I must go to Preferences / Project-Clock.  Where is Project-Clock?  I don't see this anywhere?    How do I configure BLCW as the SLAVE?

UPDATE:  Ok, I found Project=Clock after setting Preferences to ADVANCED and set it to MIDI sync however, nothing happens when I hit play on the SY77 sequencer.

Edited September 18, 2020 by tdehan

[user 905133]

I have tested both methods with another manufacturer's hardware sequencer (actually, the sequencer section built into a sound module):  (1) SONAR/Cakewalk as transport controller and (2) external hardware as transport controller.  I found that there were advantages and disadvantages to each method.

With (2) IIRC SONAR/Cakewalk was put in standby mode [using the external clock] so that it would start from the hardware's start.  I seem to recall each time I pressed stop on the hardware, I had to put SONAR/Cakewalk back in standby mode.

Your Q re: Project Clock just came in. Load a project; make sure you are in Advanced mode [Preferences]; look at Project: Clock. 

BTW, in my experience having more than one project loaded with different clock sources often caused crashes when switching between open projects.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by User 905133
to add an image

[tdehan]

I must be missing something here.  I have Cakewalk set as Preferences / Project-Clock / MIDI Sync.    The SY77 is set to send the MIDI clock.  I have Cakewalk setup as an EMPTY project with one MIDI track inserted.  Cakewalk is armed to record and the record button is pressed however, when I start the SY77 Cakewalk hears the MIDI input but the transport does not start recording.

[user 905133]

6 minutes ago, tdehan said:

I must be missing something here.  I have Cakewalk set as Preferences / Project-Clock / MIDI Sync.    The SY77 is set to send the MIDI clock.  I have Cakewalk setup as an EMPTY project with one MIDI track inserted.  Cakewalk is armed to record and the record button is pressed however, when I start the SY77 Cakewalk hears the MIDI input but the transport does not start recording.

Did you press the start button in Cakewalk's transport module and get the standby message [something about waiting for sync]?

Sec: I was doing this from memory; just tried it; Cakewalk seems to be stuck and won't dislodge using "Esc."

Edited September 18, 2020 by User 905133
to add an image

[tdehan]

I didn't press the start button.  I pressed the RECORD button to the right with the red dot and got the message you indicate.  I just tried again pressing the start button instead of the record button and get the same message however Cakewalk does not record.

[user 905133]

Just now, tdehan said:

I didn't press the start button.  I pressed the RECORD button to the right with the red dot and got the message you indicate.  I just tried again pressing the start button instead of the record button and get the same message however Cakewalk does not record.

I am getting that, too.  I am checking to make sure my hardware sequencer is seen by Cakewalk.  It was a few days ago.

[tdehan]

I have my SY77 plugged into Cakewalk through my UMC404HD audio interface and Cakewalk does see the SY77.  I can see the meters moving when I start the sequencer on the SY77.

 

[user 905133]

My HW sequencer has a setting to send MIDI Clock.  I had that turned off.  So now the transport buttons on the HW start and stop Cakewalk. Not sure how you tell the SY77 how to transmit MIDI clock.

I am still working on getting Cakewalk to follow the HW clock itself.  Sec.

It used to work.

UPDATE: It is working (now that I turned on my HW to send the clock) insofar as the Cakewalk transport is synced to external hardware start, stop, and clock.  I forgot about the issue with Cakewalk's metronome.  I forget how I solved that.  So, if HW is at 143 BPM and Cakewalk is at 40 BPM, the Cakewalk metronome is at 40 BPM.

BTW, the Audio - Sync and Caching settings also affect how Cakewalk responds to external clock/sync.

Quote

In the Preferences dialog box, go to Audio - Sync and Caching and select Always switch clock source and start and Maintain current clock source and wait for timecode. This will prevent Cakewalk from switching back to its internal clock.

Also, depending on what you are doing in Cakewalk, the following might be relevant:

Quote

When Cakewalk is slaved to an external MIDI device, the following changes occur:

• If you change the tempo using an external device, the SMPTE time code display in Cakewalk will be incorrect.
• Digital audio will play back, but not necessarily in sync.

Did you get your setup to work with the SY77?

Edited September 18, 2020 by User 905133
To add more details to the previous update

[tdehan]

1 hour ago, User 905133 said:

My HW sequencer has a setting to send MIDI Clock.  I had that turned off.  So now the transport buttons on the HW start and stop Cakewalk. Not sure how you tell the SY77 how to transmit MIDI clock.

I am still working on getting Cakewalk to follow the HW clock itself.  Sec.

It used to work.

UPDATE: It is working (now that I turned on my HW to send the clock) insofar as the Cakewalk transport is synced to external hardware start, stop, and clock.  I forgot about the issue with Cakewalk's metronome.  I forget how I solved that.  So, if HW is at 143 BPM and Cakewalk is at 40 BPM, the Cakewalk metronome is at 40 BPM.

BTW, the Audio - Sync and Caching settings also affect how Cakewalk responds to external clock/sync.

Also, depending on what you are doing in Cakewalk, the following might be relevant:

Did you get your setup to work with the SY77?

NO

 

[twelvetone]

I got my QY100 working, it was the Project clock MIDI Sync that was missing.

I first used MidiOx to see what was coming out of it.

Turns out I had to set up some stuff on the QY100.

Could be the SY77 does not send midi start/stop without setting them up.

I found MidiOx does not record everything if lots of stuff is coming in. I had to set its filters to record ONLY midi start / stop,

else it got swamped by everything else.

By the way, is it normal that only the track you click on last will show the VU meter?

Everything is recording, so it's no big deal, but I just wondered why only one meter works at a time.

Edited September 18, 2020 by twelvetone

[user 905133]

1 hour ago, tdehan said:

3 hours ago, User 905133 said:

Did you get your setup to work with the SY77?

NO

I found a copy of the manual here. I did not see any place where the manual says it outputs MIDI timing commands, but I just took a quick look at several sections related to the sequencer and song mode.  (Maybe its in a separate MIDI Implementation sheet/guide.)  The manual does talk about controlling the SY77's sequencer from an external sequencer. (See for example page 197: MIDI Control.) 

It would be good to find out if it outputs MIDI timing bytes. If it doesn't, perhaps you will be able to control the SY77's sequencer from Cakewalk. If you use a midi monitor from the SY77, does it show timing data being sent?  

UPDATE: I found the MIDI Data Format manual here.  Page 8 summarizes when it transmits and when it receives MIDI timing data.  Pages 7-8 has the MIDI data reception/transmission flow ["block diagram"], shows various switches, etc. Maybe someone experienced with Yamaha gear can help further.  

 

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by User 905133
To add an update

[twelvetone]

If  you go right to the bottom to the Midi Implementation Chart it says it supports

Clock and Real Time Commands, and Start/Stop is part of the real time commands.

Edited September 18, 2020 by twelvetone

[user 905133]

23 minutes ago, twelvetone said:

If  you go right to the bottom to the Midi Implementation Chart it says it supports

Clock and Real Time Commands, and Start/Stop is part of the real time commands.

Why didn't you say so BEFORE I did the research?  LOL.

[tdehan]

I was not able to get it to work with the SY77 connected up to Cakewalk.  However, I connected the SY77 to my Kawai Q80ex sequencer and was able to get it to work.  So issue is now solved and I now have the files in .MID format.

[twelvetone]

Then there is some setting in Cakewalk that's different.

But OK: Solved another way.