Komplete Kontrol - only Mikro Prism and TRK-01 instruments work

[holden HK]

I have the following problem. When I load Komplete Kontrol (or Kontakt) as a synth plugin and select an instrument, there is no midi reception in all libraries (Kontakt, Reaktor etc,) other than Mikro Prism and TRK-01.

I tried another program (OpenMPT) and all libraries produced sound, albeit faint, so I though it's because the notes in the midi track are out of key range, though the lowest note in the track was A-2 (easily within all Kontakt bass instruments).

I transposed the track, first by one, and later by two octaves up (from A-2 to A-4), and all the libraries sounded very well in OpenMPT, but there was still no result in Cakewalk (only Mikro Prism and TRK worked). Has anybody experienced this?

[Vernon Barnes]

What happens when you try Komplete Kontrol in stand alone mode?

[holden HK]

11 hours ago, Vernon Barnes said:

What happens when you try Komplete Kontrol in stand alone mode?

It works without a problem with a MIDI keyboard (Impact GX61).

[Vernon Barnes]

Have you checked MIDI channels?

[abacab]

Not happening here, but if it was I would check MIDI channels, although I cannot see how this would affect only certain instruments in this scenario. I would presume either all or none would work, as Komplete Kontrol is not multi-timbral, like the Kontakt instrument itself is.

[Vernon Barnes]

16 hours ago, abacab said:

Not happening here, but if it was I would check MIDI channels, although I cannot see how this would affect only certain instruments in this scenario. I would presume either all or none would work, as Komplete Kontrol is not multi-timbral, like the Kontakt instrument itself is.

VSTi hosted in Komplete Kontrol can use different MIDI channels passed through from the DAW, I recently did this as a workaround for some incompatibleities between Studio One and Arturia B3.

Another possible issue could be expression. Is it possible the controller is sending expression or volume information and turning the synths down?  Looking at the event list in recorded MIDI would show this.

I have had a keyboard output spurious data due to a fault.

Also some orchestral libraries use the mod wheel as expression. The mod wheel in its default position will be minimum volume.  What happens when you increase the modulation.

 

[holden HK]

20 hours ago, Vernon Barnes said:

Have you checked MIDI channels?

Yes, and the outputs are routed the same way. When I choose 'growling bass' from Mikro, it works. When I change to classic bass (or anything else) from Band (Kontakt), nothing happens. By the way, does it work for you?

17 hours ago, abacab said:

Komplete Kontrol is not multi-timbral, like the Kontakt instrument itself is.

Now, when you mentioned it... I saw some posts in other places (Logic and Live) that it IS possible to use Komplete Kontrol in multi-output mode. If you KK into Cakewalk with All Synth Audio Outputs ticked, Komplete Kontrol will start with 16 tracks (see screenshot). But, then, there's no browser within KK to load spearate instruments into them. Or is there another way?

[holden HK]

18 minutes ago, Vernon Barnes said:

Another possible issue could be expression. Is it possible the controller is sending expression or volume information and turning the synths down?  Looking at the event list in recorded MIDI would show this.

I thought about it, but why does it turn down synths from one set but lets the other through (both belonging to the same 'package')?

When I want to use AAS Swatches, I have to set the volume via automation lane (this is the only way I could find that makes AAS Swatches work - If you know another, I'll be happy to learn it). However, it's not possible in the case of Komplete Kontrol (screenshots).

Edited August 21, 2020 by holden HK
misspelling

[Vernon Barnes]

So what happens if you host the VSTis directly in Cakewalk rather than via Komplete Kontrol? 

 

[abacab]

42 minutes ago, Vernon Barnes said:

So what happens if you host the VSTis directly in Cakewalk rather than via Komplete Kontrol? 

 

It looks like the AAS Player in the example above is directly hosted in Cakewalk. If that is the case, then the issue is not likely to be only with KK.

Pics are great, but I wonder if  they can give step by step actions to reproduce the issue, starting with a new blank project, then exactly how the instrument is inserted, and any track settings are adjusted, etc.

I cannot reproduce the issue  here based on what has been discussed so far.

[holden HK]

23 hours ago, abacab said:

starting with a new blank project, then exactly how the instrument is inserted, and any track settings are adjusted, etc.

The project in question is based on a midi file (it's not made from scratch in Cakewalk). I can't see anything that might cause volume issues in the track in question. The very same midi file works perfectly with all Komplete Kontrol libraries in Soundbridge, LMMS and OpenMPT, and the only DAW installed on my computer that does have this problem is Cakewalk (and I'd rather expect the opposite).

Still, back to your question... If I start a new project and load KK, it works - there is sound in all libraries. So, it must be an issue related to midi import in Cakewalk (the result is the same regardless whether I 'open' or 'import' a midi file). It happens with all midi files I have and, as I said before, I can't think of a reason that would block one library and allow another from the same pack. Of course, there is a solution. I can edit the track inside the file in Cakewalk - record the track anew or redo the notes manually - I tried, and both work, and even though it's not really a big deal (it's a simple bass line, so all I need is to make 8 bars and copy and paste them), it's not the point...

Do you need me to show more details of the track? Which part(s)?

Edited August 22, 2020 by holden HK
missing word

[abacab]

18 minutes ago, holden HK said:

The project in question is based on a midi file (it's not made from scratch in Cakewalk). I can't see anything that might cause volume issues in the track in question. The very same midi file works perfectly with all Komplete Kontrol libraries in Soundbridge, LMMS and OpenMPT, and the only DAW installed on my computer that does have this problem is Cakewalk (and I'd rather expect the opposite).

Still, back to your question... If I start a new project and load KK, it works - there is sound in all libraries. So, it must be an issue related to midi import in Cakewalk (the result is the same regardless whether I 'open' or 'import' a midi file). It happens with all midi files I have and, as I said before, I can't think of a reason that would block one library and allow another from the same pack. Of course, there is a solution. I can edit the track inside the file in Cakewalk - record the track anew or redo the notes manually - I tried, and both work, and even though it's not really a big deal (it's a simple bass line, so all I need is to make 8 bars and copy and paste them), it's not the point...

Do you need me to show more details of the track? Which part(s)?

I would assume from your comments that you will need to dig into the MIDI file yourself and analyze what is happening.

Or else you may want to post an example of the file where the community can have a look at it... without that we are only guessing. It is most likely channel assignments or controllers.

[holden HK]

12 hours ago, abacab said:

Or else you may want to post an example of the file where the community can have a look at it... without that we are only guessing. It is most likely channel assignments or controllers.

Here you go. I've isolated the track in question for clarity. I checked its behavior - it works with Mikro Prism and TRK-01 Bass but doesn't with other libraries (all from within KK). I doesn't work with Kontakt standalone as well (I don't have a possibility to access other libraries separately).

bass_line.cwp

[Vernon Barnes]

Right! if you examine the MIDI track in the event list you will see the events are on channel 11. I inserted the Classic Bass patch in Komplete Kontrol and its silent as its set to receive on channel one. I changed the channel in the interface to 11 and it works.  Presumably the other instruments were set to OMNI to receive on any channel.  As Kontakt is multi-timberal the first instrument to be inserted will be on channel 1, the next channel 2 etc. by default.

I changed the display options in the track header to All from Custom  and found you had not selected an output channel for the track. If I set this to channel one it also works.

So two solutions are available.

1 - Change the channel in the track header to 1

OR

2 - Change the receive channel in the instrument to 11.

Edited August 23, 2020 by Vernon Barnes

[holden HK]

2 hours ago, Vernon Barnes said:

1 - Change the channel in the track header to 1

Working like a charm! ?

2 hours ago, Vernon Barnes said:

2 - Change the receive channel in the instrument to 11.

It didn't work (screenshot - unless it isn't what you had in mind). Still, the first solution seems better for me. Thanks a lot! ?

Any idea why Mikro Prism works without a problem with the same settings? Isn't there some global setting for the whole plugin?

 

[Vernon Barnes]

In your screenshot you are looking at output channels, not MIDI channels (i.e. the mixer channel in Cakewalk the sound is being sent to).  You would change the MIDI channel in the Classic Bass interface in Kontakt at the top of the instrument GIU.

You probably need to do some study on routing and MIDI in general to preempt future problems as there are some concepts you are not quite getting, we have all been there!

Microprism is a mono timbral instrument (it can only load one sound at a time) so I assume it defaults to receive OMNI (any) MIDI channel. Same with TRK-01

[holden HK]

13 minutes ago, Vernon Barnes said:

You would change the MIDI channel in the Classic Bass interface in Kontakt at the top of the instrument GIU.

Got it! It works now.

15 minutes ago, Vernon Barnes said:

You probably need to do some study on routing and MIDI in general to preempt future problems as there are some concepts you are not quite getting, we have all been there!

I know. I'm only starting with Cakewalk. I worked mainly with Bitwig 8-track (got it with the keyboard), and it seems everything just works there, but... It has severe limitations (only two plugins!), so I moved to Cakewalk, which I like a lot, even though the learning curve is steeper. I'm sure you'll hear from me!

Thanks again!