WASAPI Driver fail

[Anton Pyvovarov]

Dear Cakewalk wizards,

I'm a new user of Cakewalk and have been in the process of setting up the audio engine with cakewalk recently.

I have a strange issue while using  Cakewalk under WASAPI exclusive driver mode.

In short - the audio engine gets "thrown out" every once in a while. Suddenly the  audio produced by playing a MIDI instrument via KONTAKT gets some wild digital artefact with overtones which sounds like  some nonexistent LoFi computer synth.   This happens spontaneously, while I'm using the program but also sometimes when I plug/unplug the power, open a browser etc. If I hit the playback button it chokes the playback for a split second and then continues to run normally as if nothing happened.

I'm using a rather low buffer size, because I need to play and record instruments live, but it doesn't seem to happen due to overload, sometimes it happens even if I do nothing. 

It seems like some kind of conflict with the Window's system audio, or I don't know what

 

Anyone has an idea of what can that be?

 

Thank you

Anton

[Robert Bone]

Perhaps try WASAPI Shared mode?

Bob Bone

[Anton Pyvovarov]

Thank you, I would do that, but I try to keep overall latency as low as possible, which works great for exclusive mode, the shared mode gives a much higher latency. So I wanted to know if it is possible to work out that behaviour, and what is causing it anyway?

[Promidi]

What audio interface are you using?

[Anton Pyvovarov]

16 hours ago, Promidi said:

What audio interface are you using?

It's a MOTU micro Book II

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by Anton Pyvovarov

[Robert Bone]

2 hours ago, Anton Pyvovarov said:

It's a MOTU micro Book II

 

Hi - I am a little confused.  I just looked at the tech specs for the MicroBook II, and it says it ships with ASIO drivers, and though I did not install the most recent MOTU software for it, since I do not own it, I cannot decipher what is within the installer program, but it does seem to have ASIO drivers available.

SOOOOO - my questions is - why would you be using WASAPI mode, when there are apparently ASIO drivers available for it?

Bob Bone

 

[Promidi]

1 hour ago, Robert Bone said:

Hi - I am a little confused.  I just looked at the tech specs for the MicroBook II, and it says it ships with ASIO drivers, and though I did not install the most recent MOTU software for it, since I do not own it, I cannot decipher what is within the installer program, but it does seem to have ASIO drivers available.

SOOOOO - my questions is - why would you be using WASAPI mode, when there are apparently ASIO drivers available for it?

Bob Bone

 

I would have to ask the same question.....   especially in light of this statement "but I try to keep overall latency as low as possible"

[Anton Pyvovarov]

 

1 hour ago, Promidi said:

I would have to ask the same question.....   especially in light of this statement "but I try to keep overall latency as low as possible"

I have to say I'm not very experienced with windows audio drivers, as I've been using mac since I've learned my first DAW. Until now I wasn't aware, that WASAPI is meant for built in audio engine only. Furthermore I was using a wrong asio driver all along (ASIO4ALL, instead of MOTU Asio) What I did notice though is that, as far as latency is concerned the MOTU ASIO driver will be less efficient, then WASAPI exclusive without the interface.  To  be able to use strings and piano libraries without "cracks" I have to setup buffer size higher and have no less than 15 ms.  So with what I have , if having least latency is needed i'm right now better off using no audio interface, but just usb input and a headphone output with WASAPI exclusive. As I was (unknowingly) trying to use WASAPI, with my MOTU, it worked very unstable and as a result the aforementioned artefacts.  Thanks to all for the tips !

Edited August 12, 2020 by Anton Pyvovarov

[Promidi]

8 hours ago, Anton Pyvovarov said:

 

I have to say I'm not very experienced with windows audio drivers, as I've been using mac since I've learned my first DAW. Until now I wasn't aware, that WASAPI is meant for built in audio engine only. Furthermore I was using a wrong asio driver all along (ASIO4ALL, instead of MOTU Asio) What I did notice though is that, as far as latency is concerned the MOTU ASIO driver will be less efficient, then WASAPI exclusive without the interface.  To  be able to use strings and piano libraries without "cracks" I have to setup buffer size higher and have no less than 15 ms.  So with what I have , if having least latency is needed i'm right now better off using no audio interface, but just usb input and a headphone output with WASAPI exclusive. As I was (unknowingly) trying to use WASAPI, with my MOTU, it worked very unstable and as a result the aforementioned artefacts.  Thanks to all for the tips !

Just confirming that as well as not using ASIO4ALL, that you have actually uninstalled it?

[Robert Bone]

16 hours ago, Anton Pyvovarov said:

 

I have to say I'm not very experienced with windows audio drivers, as I've been using mac since I've learned my first DAW. Until now I wasn't aware, that WASAPI is meant for built in audio engine only. Furthermore I was using a wrong asio driver all along (ASIO4ALL, instead of MOTU Asio) What I did notice though is that, as far as latency is concerned the MOTU ASIO driver will be less efficient, then WASAPI exclusive without the interface.  To  be able to use strings and piano libraries without "cracks" I have to setup buffer size higher and have no less than 15 ms.  So with what I have , if having least latency is needed i'm right now better off using no audio interface, but just usb input and a headphone output with WASAPI exclusive. As I was (unknowingly) trying to use WASAPI, with my MOTU, it worked very unstable and as a result the aforementioned artefacts.  Thanks to all for the tips !

I think if you uninstall ASIO4ALL, install the MOTU ASIO drivers, change your Driver Mode in Preferences, set the ASIO Buffer Size to 128 samples, and be careful about any effects plugins adding latency, you should be fine for recording.

When mixing, change the ASIO Buffer Size to 1024 or 2048, then you can also use more resource demanding plugins, such as convolution reverbs, or linear phase type plugins.

Bob Bone 

[Anton Pyvovarov]

On 8/13/2020 at 7:57 AM, Promidi said:

Just confirming that as well as not using ASIO4ALL, that you have actually uninstalled it?

Yes I did. Although I'm not sure I would not actually need it. I have also Ableton installed on the same computer, and in case I need to use it without audio interface, I basically have no driver for it, since Ab... doesn't support WASAPI, and that MME/Direct Sound thing is totally unusable, so in that case ASIO4ALL was the only option. 

[Anton Pyvovarov]

On 8/13/2020 at 4:04 PM, Robert Bone said:

I think if you uninstall ASIO4ALL, install the MOTU ASIO drivers, change your Driver Mode in Preferences, set the ASIO Buffer Size to 128 samples, and be careful about any effects plugins adding latency, you should be fine for recording.

When mixing, change the ASIO Buffer Size to 1024 or 2048, then you can also use more resource demanding plugins, such as convolution reverbs, or linear phase type plugins.

Bob Bone 

Actually I have no option of 128 samples. The minimum I can set is 96 samples with 2ms input and 8ms total roundtrip latency of 8ms. And the next option is 192 samples with 14 ms roundtrip latency

[Anton Pyvovarov]

On 8/13/2020 at 4:04 PM, Robert Bone said:

I think if you uninstall ASIO4ALL, install the MOTU ASIO drivers, change your Driver Mode in Preferences, set the ASIO Buffer Size to 128 samples, and be careful about any effects plugins adding latency, you should be fine for recording.

When mixing, change the ASIO Buffer Size to 1024 or 2048, then you can also use more resource demanding plugins, such as convolution reverbs, or linear phase type plugins.

Bob Bone 

Another thing that puzzles me , is sometimes it simply won't change to a different buffer setting. After I press apply it jumps back to the previous buffer size. And while using a DAW for playing the other times when the load becomes too much there comes a delay, that makes playing impossible and audio unstable, so that after some time it cracks down. I don't really understand yet how to go about such behaviour. It is generally so glitchy and unstable, that i almost give up the idea of playing virtual instruments live with this setup. it seems to me like either these windows drivers are way too unreliable for a performance situation, or I am just missing something. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Anton Pyvovarov
Additional information

[Promidi]

41 minutes ago, Anton Pyvovarov said:

Another thing that puzzles me , is sometimes it simply won't change to a different buffer setting. After I press apply it jumps back to the previous buffer size.

Some audio interfaces do not allow changes to buffer size using Cakewalk's audio preferences.  You need to do this using the configuration utility that came with your audio interface.

I have an intel 4th gen i5 (2015) with a 2nd gen Focusrite 2i2 set to 48khz with a buffer size or 256 samples.  This is using ASIO.  I do not get glitchy playback when playing any softsynth live in real-time - even the CPU hungry ones.

[Anton Pyvovarov]

7 hours ago, Promidi said:

Some audio interfaces do not allow changes to buffer size using Cakewalk's audio preferences.  You need to do this using the configuration utility that came with your audio interface.

I have an intel 4th gen i5 (2015) with a 2nd gen Focusrite 2i2 set to 48khz with a buffer size or 256 samples.  This is using ASIO.  I do not get glitchy playback when playing any softsynth live in real-time - even the CPU hungry ones.

Ah , I see. What seems to happen though is audio driver doesn't  like , when the audio setup is not exactly the way it was last time the project was opened. Even if it's just plugged, or unplugged headphones in the computer.  Does it mean I have to always plug audio interface and all the gear in before opening the project?

[Promidi]

4 minutes ago, Anton Pyvovarov said:

Does it mean I have to always plug audio interface and all the gear in before opening the project?

I would.