Attn: Echo Layla 3G / W10 Users

[razor7music]

1 hour ago, JonD said:

One possibility is, PCI card-driven  interfaces work best with the older motherboards.  While the newer boards have PCI slots, they are often bridged, and that can present its own data-streaming problems.  (This is not an absolute, as some newer boards work just fine with PCI-based audio, but it can definitely be a factor).

I'm not sure how that applies where the same PCI card and mobo are in place and everything worked great with W7, then the issues started when the OS was upgraded to W10, but maybe your only referring to LasRul?

[Shawn Eary]

On 6/8/2020 at 2:00 PM, Rico Belled said:

Why? These are GREAT, in the sound department, but also in the latency dept. I see scores of Mac-heads endlessly upgrading to end up with no improvement...

This is a common thing with MS Windows. I don't like the fact that MS Windows and Mac name their background drivers daemons, but I'm sick and tired of Microsoft's GARBAGE OS releases. Microsoft hasn't released a decent mainstream OS [1] since version 1809 of Win 10. Sure, DirectX12, Windows Subsystem for Linux 2 and DirectML are all pretty decent things to get in new Operating Systems, but those features alone don't warrant the headaches and overhead that come with clunky modern Win 10 builds.  Even UEFI was an advancement in some cases, but it's also a pain.

Point is, Microsoft is constantly putting out junk that people don't want. I'm tired of it. NET Core is cool and so is SQL Server, but all these new OS releases are VERY slow and offer very little value to me. Guess what? You can't keep turning the OS updates down. If you do, you may get hacked someday due to a lack of security patches. 

So then, people like me wind up using what appear to be Russian hacks to keep their EMU1212M sound cards working on Win 10 builds after 1809. The Russian hack still works on Version 21H2 BTW but whenever Microsoft does a major OS update, I have to reinstall the Russian hack. This shouldn't be necessary.

GNU\Linux doesn't do this to it's users. My EMU1212M *still* works in GNU\Linux without me having to employ some crazy Russian hack. It's not perfect but I don't have to hack my OS. This is why I'm considering getting a Delta 1010 and switching over to GNU\Linux. The only problem is I'm not sure how easy it is to get Cubase 10.5 running efficiently and legally in GNU\Linux via Wine. I'm licensed and I have the copyright dongle but I expect there to be problems. I think Cubase 12 doesn't use the dongle anymore, but then Wine would have to be able to do the internet activation.

I could go Mac but Macs are *really* expensive and my Emulator X3 software will not run on Mac; however, my EMU1212M and Cubase 10.5 should run like a Cheeta.

Why am I posting here? Because I'm also considering getting a used Layla 3G which also apparently works amazingly well in GNU\Linux. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if it will work so great in Win 10 21H2...

Lastly, Microsoft needs to ditch that absurd TPM requirement for Win 11. TPMs can be EASILY hacked. Aside from reducing the number of viruses that can be loaded at boot time, they offer little value. Do *NOT* expect a TPM to keep people out of a total volume encrypted drive. Generally specking if someone steals your HD, they will also have the TPM. If they have the TPM, a skilled hacker or Electrical Engineer can extract the keys... In other words, TPMs are mostly pointless and Microsoft needs to drop that absurd requirement.

[1] - I don't have too many complaints about Windows Server, but what normal person can afford that??? Besides, if you really need a server, run GNU\Linux...

[Byron Dickens]

You created an account a resurrected a two-year-old dead thread just for this useless rant?

Edited April 23, 2022 by bdickens

[Shawn Eary]

2 hours ago, bdickens said:

You created an account a resurrected a two-year-old dead thread just for this useless rant?

I know. I figured that would upset some people. I used to use Cakewalk back when I had an EMU-APS. That card probably still works in Win 10 using kxDrivers BTW, but EMU1212M will not work in Win 10 past 1809 without that strange hack. The kxDrivers are also developed by Russians but I think they are at least Open Source.

The comment that started me off was:
Rico - "I see scores of Mac-heads endlessly upgrading to end up with no improvement..."

I've seen this time and time again. Whenever Microsoft breaks the drivers for a high $$$ audio interface, some non-tech musician tells the victim users: "Just buy another sound card". That's not the correct answer. If you're Garth Brooks, Toby Mac, Whitney Houston, Mandisa, Ye West, etc..., yeah, just buy another audio interface and get over it. If you are any normal kind of person, you can't afford to buy a new $$$ audio interface every time Microsoft jacks up their OS. I'm a Computer Programmer by trade, but I don't get paid very well. 

There is no reason why people should be forced to buy a new audio interface every time Microsoft jacks up their OS when a driver rewrite would suffice. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or skill to do these intensive driver rewrites.

Theoretically a Layla 3G (or virtually any audio interface) should be able to work in Win 10 21H2 and Win 11 if Microsoft, Echo (or the prospective vendor) would spend the time/money to rewrite the drivers. Unfortunately, no one is paying them to do it, so all corporations involved refuse. It sounds a lot like planned obsolescence to me except that it's probably not intentional in this case...

My guess is that a Layla 3G will work (without major driver modification) in Win 10 21H2 / Win 11 but I can't test it because I don't have one yet. On the other hand, the EMU1212M will not because Creative Labs and EMU initialize the DSP chip at startup. Modern Win 10/Win 11 builds have apparently been restructured to prevent the EMU1212M from initializing the DSP thereby rendering the card useless without the hack despite my observation that the "basic" drivers seem work. In other words, the EMU 1212M drivers are apparently working without the hack, but you can't hear jack because the DSP chip isn't getting initialized.

If Layla 3G also has effects on a DSP, it's possible the initialization sequence for them will also fail. I don't think an M-Audio Delta 1010 would load any code into a DSP at startup so it might be more likely to work as OSes continue to "evolve".

If you want a future proof audio interface, then get one with as much functionality built into the interface as possible and try to make sure the said audio interface uses no firmware. In modern Win 10 builds, I think Microsoft did something (maybe security wise) that made it difficult for old school drivers to initialize the firmware on high $$$ audio interfaces. Many CPUs these days have six cores (or maybe more) and can handle two threads per core. If that isn't enough, you can even get Mother Boards with two CPUs but that's rarely cost effective for audio hobbyists.

My guess is that M-Audio Delta 1010 does not use firmware, but I could be wrong... If M-Audio Delta 1010 doesn't use firmware, that's a GOOD thing. As fast as computers are these days, there is no need to offload audio processing onto an audio-interface. You really only need the audio interface to ensure each input signal gets cleanly converted to digital form and put on its own separate track. Your DAW and CPU can handle the effects processing on their own without the help of the audio interface.

I'm sorry for disturbing you. For real. I'm not having the best of days and this kind of thing really does make me upset.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Shawn Eary

[John Vere]

I actually found your “rant” educational and appreciate the time you took to type it out.

We’ve been fighting an almost loosing battle with MS based systems since day one of the release of DAW software. 

I just get a system running smoothly and hold my breath that it will stay like that for at least a few years so I can get some work done.

I am not a computer type nerd, I’m a musician. But I’ve been forced to become a computer nerd if I want to use a PC for studio recording system. 

PCI cards were the way to go back even 12 years ago. I have a Card Deluxe PCI card and it’s still working fine but the connectivity sucks so it’s playing movies on a spare machine. 
Only interface I have that’s not supported by W10 is a MAudio fast track pro- no loss. 
3 other interfaces have not seen drivers updates for 5-6 years now but are still working great.

 But it makes me nervous so I bought a Motu which I’m not that impressed with the driver at all. That’s because that company is focusing on Macs. They probably hate writing drivers for Windows, I don’t blame them. 

Then I feel especially sorry for anyone who tries to use a Windows XP or W7 driver or worse on board audio. Good luck. 

[SteveyAR]

Hello everyone!

Excuse my off-topic, but could anyone help me with my problem?

I've got an Echo Gina 3G card and I'm trying to install the driver on my Win10 x64.

I get this kind of error: 'This device cannot start. (Code 10)'.

The driver I am trying to install is 'Echo3G. Version: 8.5.0.0. Release date: 3 December 2009'.

Any tips and tricks on how to fix this, guys?! ?

 

[Max Arwood]

I have been using Echo audio driver # 8.6 on a Layla Echo 24/96. for many years. I think it works well. I never had any problems with installation. 

[SteveyAR]

On 12/1/2022 at 2:00 PM, Max Arwood said:

I have been using Echo audio driver # 8.6 on a Layla Echo 24/96. for many years. I think it works well. I never had any problems with installation. 

Thanks for your reply, Max! Could you please give me the link where can I download driver #8.6?

 

UPDATE: if anyone is searching for the latest available driver for Echo Gina 3G card (ver. 8.6), here's the link to the download from the official Echo Audio website: http://files.echoaudio.com/drivers/windows/echo3g_setup_8.6.exe

Edited December 4, 2022 by SteveyAR