Waves + Cakewalk question for current (previous) users

[Misha]

Hi Folks. 

I was avoiding shiny Waves for a long time. I do have a single plugin by them, which is Vocal rider.  I do not use it often... So far it works. But I only had it for a year or so.

I have read a lot of negative rant how Waves uses various "switch and bait" tactics with their WUPs and other dirty tricks. I like a couple of their plugins and want to ask a current/previous "user opinion" on Waves+Cakewalk.  I want to install them through waves central,  do an "offline installer", uninstall Waves Central.

The goal: To have a life expectancy of a plugin of 3-5 years without hearing from Waves or be forced to paid upgrade of these plugins in order for them to work. Cakewalk is the only place I will be using these.  Should I be worried about these plugins to become unusable after their year "warranty" expires?  It might sound silly to some, but please no funnies.  Just looking for straight answer. 

Thank you!

[Starise]

I don't believe the plugins would stop working after that amount of time in Cakewalk or any DAW. The business model seems to be they sell you a bunch of plugins at a low price and then sell WUP to periodically upgrade them. They often seem to throw in a face lifted plugin with the new WUP or new plugins completely as part of the WUP. 

The benefit to you is if you don't upgrade for a long time the plugins almost always continue to work since they weren't buggy to begin with. The way they have managed to get more $$ in the past was the WUP portal was upgraded and they required you to upgrade the portal which also mean't they requested you to upgrade your WUP.

In the case of updated portal and versioning, you could opt not to upgrade the portal and still use the plugins as is. If you already own a few plugins it is sometimes advantageous for new users to get a package like Waves Gold because it includes the most recent WUP. 

It is clear that Waves would like for you to upgrade periodically. They usually correct small bugs in some plugins and guarantee you future updates for a certain amount of time though I have never noticed any bugs in the first place.. My WUP was somewhere in the neighborhood of 250.00 US for my Horizon Bundle and an assortment of other additional plugins. I haven't WUPd yet and probably won't for some time. The best thing to do is wait for WUP sales on the deals forum around Black Friday. Additional discounts can be had through vendors like Plugin Boutique. For my collection I don't think it's unreasonable to WUP on a sale every so often. Especially if they are making larger changes like VST3 and adding additional plugins. The price seems equally high if you only have a few plugins so you are better off WUPing a collection.

I wish Waves would offer a WUP for all since not all of my plugins are expired when the others Need WUP.

So long as Cakewalk accepts VST 2 and 3 I don't see these plugins ever becoming obsolete only dated after a long time. Other options would be Melda Production. They are more expensive but you never pay another cent for updates for the life of the plugin. There's also IK Mutimedia plugins if you invest in TRacks .

None of these guys force you to do anything to keep using a plugin after so long. 

[Misha]

Starise, 

Thank you for excellent explanation! I am more confident now.

I have all the major plugins I need from Fab.  Waves have a couple of minor, but useful plugs that I was looking at for some time, but just did not want to get myself involved in some forceful and paid  software upgrade mess.

P.S. Thank you for mentioning Melda. I have heard good things about it. I will download couple of trials tonight which are similar to Waves plugins I am looking at and see if I can get similar results in ~same time

 

Again,

THANK YOU!

 

[ensconced]

I wont comment directly on Cakewalk/CbB, as I no longer use them, but it will generally be the same for all.

Don't believe all the BS and FUD that is said about Waves, Waves is one of those products/Companies that tend have haters and lovers, there are haters that can't help themselves and push their agenda at every opportunity, there are a couple of those here on these very forums.

You don't have to worry about your plugins suddenly not working anytime soon, having said that I guess like all software, if not updated, sometime in the distant future through OS changes etc things may not work as they do now, but like I said, that is the same for any software. With waves 'WUP' the update plan is totally optional, not having a current WUP, unlike what some would have you believe, will not cause your plugins to stop working.

Waves has a lot of plugins, a lot quite old, but they continue to work today on current OS's. You may find other developers who's plugins are no longer supported, who's plugins may struggle at some time, and as they are no longer supported or updated, eventually they may not work or not work as designed. With waves, and the WUP, you can be pretty much assured that their plugins will continue to work. As mentioned WUP is optional, only use it when and if you want/have to, or if there is a benefit to you,  like free plugins to whatever Bundles you may have.

I am a long time user, many years, of Waves plugins and have no issues with them at all.

Edited May 12, 2020 by ensconced

[Misha]

ensconced,

Thank you! The Waves plugins I want are older, nothing  over complicated, and should last for a few years.  

 

[Brian Walton]

3 hours ago, Misha said:

ensconced,

Thank you! The Waves plugins I want are older, nothing  over complicated, and should last for a few years.  

 

I have over 20 WAVES plugins.

They should in theory work.  However, what version of the one WAVES plugin do you have?

If it isn't 10 or 11, I would be somewhat concerned that it will not work after you buy new plugins that are v11.  And WAVES won't support you on that plugin unless you pay for the WUP which will probably cost about as much as buying it on sale.

This isn't conjecture, this is from experience, where I have v9 plugins that literally no longer work (and I am well above average when it comes to computers, it is part of my full time job).

If you buy v11s now, I would expect those to continue to work for  3-5 years as long as you do not try to install Waves Central again, or purchase more plugins by them.  If you do, then all bets are off, as WAVES central Updates have historically been problematic.  

The VST standards changing are not your concern over that time frame, it is WAVE's own unreliable update and authorization process.  

I'd take a long hard look at what you are trying to get from WAVES and then consider alternative products.  

Omni Channel is one of the only ones I've found that is hard to find elsewhere for a reasonable sum.  PSP Ininistrip being an obvious one, but far more expensive (and the authorization method not being world better thanks to iLok.

They make good sounding plugins, but in my experience have been in the lowest end for reliability if you make changes to the system, and outside of the WUP (which is outrageous) they do not offer support even with their slogan of "your plugins should continue to work" for old versions.  Yes, those VST standards haven't been broken, but the authorization and install method got jacked up when they rolled out new WAVES Central and new Versions.

Edited May 12, 2020 by Brian Walton

[oneofmany]

I don't have a bunch of waves plugins, actually only one v9 and one v11 haha. When I fresh installed on a new build, I had to install the latest control center, and then to get the v9 operational, I had to dload and install the older control center (afterwards) to get the v9 to reauthorize from USB license. I know some were no longer on the supported v9 list, but mine was. 

 

Instructions on method to do this was on the waves site. 

Grant 

[ensconced]

5 hours ago, Brian Walton said:

I have over 20 WAVES plugins.

They should in theory work.  However, what version of the one WAVES plugin do you have?

If it isn't 10 or 11, I would be somewhat concerned that it will not work after you buy new plugins that are v11.  And WAVES won't support you on that plugin unless you pay for the WUP which will probably cost about as much as buying it on sale.

This isn't conjecture, this is from experience, where I have v9 plugins that literally no longer work (and I am well above average when it comes to computers, it is part of my full time job).

If you buy v11s now, I would expect those to continue to work for  3-5 years as long as you do not try to install Waves Central again, or purchase more plugins by them.  If you do, then all bets are off, as WAVES central Updates have historically been problematic.  

The VST standards changing are not your concern over that time frame, it is WAVE's own unreliable update and authorization process.  

I'd take a long hard look at what you are trying to get from WAVES and then consider alternative products.  

Omni Channel is one of the only ones I've found that is hard to find elsewhere for a reasonable sum.  PSP Ininistrip being an obvious one, but far more expensive (and the authorization method not being world better thanks to iLok.

They make good sounding plugins, but in my experience have been in the lowest end for reliability if you make changes to the system, and outside of the WUP (which is outrageous) they do not offer support even with their slogan of "your plugins should continue to work" for old versions.  Yes, those VST standards haven't been broken, but the authorization and install method got jacked up when they rolled out new WAVES Central and new Versions.

In my experience, your fears are unfounded and not based in reality.

I have zero issues in the areas you speak, I have  v9, v10, v11 all working fine, it's as easy as. Follow the correct method, there is no problem.

I will leave you to your alternate reality. I'm out

Edited May 12, 2020 by ensconced

[Brian Walton]

3 hours ago, ensconced said:

In my experience, your fears are unfounded and not based in reality.

I have zero issues in the areas you speak, I have  v9, v10, v11 all working fine, it's as easy as. Follow the correct method, there is no problem.

I will leave you to your alternate reality. I'm out

It is actual reality.  My experience and you can look up the fact I wasn't the only one.  WAVES flat out refused to help unless an upgrade to v10 or 11 was made.

I followed the directions to a "t"  and  I have managed a large fleet of computers and IT professionals, I'm not exactly a novice in the area of software deployment.  

v10 are running fine on my machines right now, but v9 are still dead in the water and I have no inteniton on upgrading them.  

The OP wanted real world advice, and I'm not going to sit by and blindly say it is all perfect on the WAVES front.  

 

Example other user had to pay $200 to get them to work,a and others note issues as well:   http://forum.cakewalk.com/Waves-plugin-issues-SOLVED-m3765828.aspx

 

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=515929

 

They also have one of the poorest liscencing terms in the business.  One single install per purchase.  

Edited May 13, 2020 by Brian Walton

[marcL]

I think the real problem is their sophisticated "shell solution". In fact with Waves you have only 1 single plugin, the shell. This shell handles the autorisation and all the other plugin stubs.

Firstly, this is very tricky if you use different versions and secondly, this causes that the DAW plugin scanner cannot see whether a Waves plugin has changed, i.e. the Waves plugins have always to be scanned! This causes longer plugin scanning! Also like that you cannot organize the plugins like any others!

[ensconced]

On 5/12/2020 at 1:10 PM, ensconced said:

Don't believe all the BS and FUD that is said about Waves, Waves is one of those products/Companies that tend have haters and lovers, there are haters that can't help themselves and push their agenda at every opportunity, there are a couple of those here on these very forums.

 

[Misha]

Wow! That is extensive reply.

Thank you all!  I am not a plugin maniac, just want two minor plugins a 

Aphex Vintage Aural Exciter  and CLA Mixdown (for slap on -fast mixes) 

I looked into Melda as Starise suggested. I heard good things about that company. They have a very nice plugin  MStereoProcessor which seems to be far better and more advanced than  Waves Aphex, because you can narrow exciter (and stereo width) to specific bandwidth. It is twice the money, but  "exciter" is one of very few plugins that I actually want in my setup. Maybe it worth of investing in Melda not to have regrets at a later time   Have to try them side by side to compare.