Zero Crossings and Loop Construction View

[winkpain]

Is the "snap to zero crossings" setting in the Preferences/Customization/Snap to Grid settings actually the only zero crossings setting??

In other words, must I have Snap to Grid on to have audio cuts snap to zero?? I work outside of Snap to Grid a lot, but I almost always want audio to be cut at zero crossings. Isn't there a way to default to this and not have Snap to Grid on?  After all, zero crossings are not on a grid.

This is further frustrated by Snap to Zero crossings being only available to set in that Preferences section AND it doesn't maintain a checked "On" setting when starting new projects! Even if I have a project open with Snap to Zero crossings checked on in Pref. and then open a new project, keeping the other one open, the Snap to Zero crossings setting is then un-ticked by opening the new project, apparently.

Workspaces?  I would assume, but I see no Snap to Zero crossings setting in Workspaces.

How can we have Snap to Zero crossings just on by default always??

 

I also would have thought that Loop Construction (which I've never really used) would have tools for editing loop beginnings and endings and/or stretching/moving waveforms. In the manual it mentions, in the appropriate section and talking about the "Audio Scaling" aspect of LC,

Quote

Audio scaling allows you to make detailed edits
by zooming in on the parts of the waveform closest to the zero crossing (silence) while preserving the track size. By showing just the
quietest parts of a clip, you can make very precise edits.

But....what "precise edits" can you perform here?  There are no audio editing tools within Loop Construction. You can zoom in on the zero crossings, but do nothing once there.

Edited April 27, 2020 by winkpain

[David Baay]

- To snap to zero crossings without also snapping to a musical grid, set the snap resolution to a single sample.

- To have it enabled in new projects, save a project template with it enabled, and create new projects from  that template.

- I don't really use the loop construction view, but 'editing' consists primarily of moving slice markers around. Your screenshot appears to be showing the waveform before the first marker. If you zoom in on a marker, you can drag it to a zero-crossing (grab the slice line inside the waveform, not the flag above it), but it doesn't appear to have a snap function or honor global snap.

 

[winkpain]

1 hour ago, David Baay said:

- To snap to zero crossings without also snapping to a musical grid, set the snap resolution to a single sample.

- To have it enabled in new projects, save a project template with it enabled, and create new projects from  that template.

- I don't really use the loop construction view, but 'editing' consists primarily of moving slice markers around. Your screenshot appears to be showing the waveform before the first marker. If you zoom in on a marker, you can drag it to a zero-crossing (grab the slice line inside the waveform, not the flag above it), but it doesn't appear to have a snap function or honor global snap.

 

OK. So, as I noticed - no default snap to zero crossings without snap to grid engaged? And no default "on" unless creating a template for it?

Also as an example:  I have created and saved a project or template with Zero Crossings set to "on" in Preferences, and I then open any project (most by this arrangement) with it "off" or a new project with it defaulted to "off". My previously saved project's zero crossings setting is then overridden and it reverts to "off" again. If I then re-save this project without thinking to double-check preferences, it is now saved with zero crossings reverted to "off"!

Is this not odd? I understand an occasional need for sometimes wanting zero crossings turned off, but certainly not often. It saves so much time to not have to go into every audio clip, zoom in close and search out glitchy, off-zero cuts.  And given the relative obscurity of the setting (no visible indicator or control module item) and it's insistence in Preferences of not sticking to what I prefer, wouldn't it be smarter to have it default to "on"??

Edited April 28, 2020 by winkpain

[David Baay]

I just double-checked and cannot reproduce a problem getting the desired behavior saved in a template or saved and restored in a project created from that template or changed and resaved.

One thing I noticed that could be misleading is that if you have two projects open at the same time with opposing settings,  the display of the setting in Preferences may not update properly as you switch back and forth between projects, but the actual snap to zero behavior is always consistent with the state of the setting in each project when it was last saved.

 

 

[winkpain]

16 hours ago, David Baay said:

I just double-checked and cannot reproduce a problem getting the desired behavior saved in a template or saved and restored in a project created from that template or changed and resaved.

One thing I noticed that could be misleading is that if you have two projects open at the same time with opposing settings,  the display of the setting in Preferences may not update properly as you switch back and forth between projects, but the actual snap to zero behavior is always consistent with the state of the setting in each project when it was last saved.

 

 

And thank you, again, David!

This was encouraging, but unfortunately, I am not finding this to be the case. I just double-checked again with this simple test multiple times:

I open a project saved with Snap to Zero checked "on" in Pref. I confirm that it is on.

I then open a new, blank project with it defaulted to "off". I can then immediately close this one without even opening up Preferences or doing anything at all. I can then be back in original project, and without even opening Preferences (or doing anything else, or with opening Pref., or doing whatever), if this project is then saved anew, it will be saved with Snap to Zero set to "off" .

It just "wants" to persist at being "off".

 

P.S. But yes - if I think of it and go to the setting, re-check it "on" and then re-save, it will stay on when re-opening.  I'm just saying, in the above scenario it is very easy to have it unwittingly set to "off" and then, without thinking always to check this before re-saving....well, you get the picture

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by winkpain

[David Baay]

Okay, that clarifies the scenario, and I can reproduce that specific case;

- Open an existing project with it enabled.

- Start a new project from a template with it disabled

- Close the new project.

- Re-save the existing project.

It seems to only happen when a new project is started from a template. Opening some other existing project with it disables does ot have the 'override' effect that starting new from a template file does.

The workaround will be to enable it in all your templates and re-save them one at a time, and you should be good after that.

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by David Baay

[winkpain]

12 minutes ago, David Baay said:

Okay, that clarifies the scenario, and I can reproduce that specific case;

- Open an existing project with it enabled.

- Start a new project from a template with it disabled

- Close the new project.

- Re-save the existing project.

It seems to only happen when a new project is started from a template. Opening some other existing project with it disables does ot have the 'override' effect that starting new from a template file does.

The workaround will be to enable it in all your templates and re-save them one at a time, and you should be good after that.

 

Sheesh!

I will do...

But, really? Snap to zero should be "on" by default. With a very nice, up front and obvious way to toggle it if needed.  Who would not agree?

 

Edit:  Nuts! 

No good. Opening any other project with Snap to zero off will still have the exact same above mentioned effect of overriding that setting on whatever other project is open.

For sure this would be considered a bug? Even if it only did this with templates as on your system.

Edited April 28, 2020 by winkpain

[David Baay]

The next thing that's going make your head explode is that it doesn't work in lanes.  ?

Just make your cuts in areas of low average amplitude, and you shouldn't have too much trouble. Splitting at zero crossings is no guarantee you won't get a pop. If the surrounding amplitude is high, stopping the driver dead at zero as it comes back to center from a high peak is a more radical discontinuity than dropping it to 0 by splitting it where the amplitude is at say -30dB. 

[winkpain]

?

Ah well. At least Auto-crossfades works!

You're absolutely right, it's not a guarantee, but cutting at zeros is, on average, a better place to default your audio cuts to, always having the option to do otherwise if the situation demands. That's what gets me with this insistent, persistent defaulting to the off position. Not to mention (except that I am mentioning it - again. Whoops!) the oddness of having a chosen Preference setting being overridden in such an obscure way.  And strange that your system acts differently than mine in that template versus "regular" project regard. But as it seems to be a bug, I guess that's why it behaves.... buggy.

 

As always, thank you for your insight and time!