Is Cakewalk development still ongoing? Just checking... [Yes it is indeed! :) ]

[GreenLight]

Considering the recent relative silence from Bandlab, I just wanna double-check that development of my favorite DAW is still ongoing? (If it was a paid product I wouldn't worry as much, but the future of a free product just seems a little less certain, that's all.)

Stay safe and keep on truckin' everyone! ??

Edited April 1, 2020 by GreenLight
Adjusted subject :)

[Jonathan Sasor]

23 minutes ago, GreenLight said:

Considering the recent relative silence from Bandlab, I just wanna double-check that development of my favorite DAW is still ongoing? (If it was a paid product I wouldn't worry as much, but the future of a free product just seems a little less certain, that's all.)

Stay safe and keep on truckin' everyone! ??

It's very much ongoing! We're just working on something that requires a little extra time in the oven right now.

[Feral State Sound]

7 minutes ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

It's very much ongoing! We're just working on something that requires a little extra time in the oven right now.

I wonder what is all about... Any clues? ?

[GreenLight]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

It's very much ongoing! We're just working on something that requires a little extra time in the oven right now.

Thanks for the confirmation Jonathan, calming down over here now.

You guys rock, keep up the great work!!

[Jacques Boileau]

3 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

It's very much ongoing! We're just working on something that requires a little extra time in the oven right now.

This is great to hear! I hope the Cakewalk developers are safe in these tough times and you all know how much we appreciate the work you do. Can't wait to try out any new stuff you throw at us! ?

[Craig Anderton]

4 hours ago, Jonathan Sasor said:

It's very much ongoing! We're just working on something that requires a little extra time in the oven right now.

Hmmm...last time something took a while, it was revamping the audio stretching.

[glenville Leader]

Sigh. I was getting a bit worried myself. Thanks for the update.

[Kevin Walsh]

I wasn't worried.

[Lord Tim]

Yeah, listen - I was told I'm not supposed to leak any upcoming features, but... well, it's DEFINITELY the Cakewalk Hovercraft we've been promised all these years (now as a Pro Channel add on). You heard it here first!

Edited April 4, 2020 by Lord Tim
Speling is harrrrd ?

[Jon White]

On 4/1/2020 at 7:18 AM, Jonathan Sasor said:

It's very much ongoing! We're just working on something that requires a little extra time in the oven right now.

Hopefully -- and I say this with due respect and no ill intent -- it will improve the audio engine's efficiency in working with audio drivers and processing.  

Although I'm a Cake/Sonar/Cake user since the late eighties, I've used many DAWs in that time and I find that we have the most audio glitches of any of them -- almost to the point of me changing at my home studio many times in favor of ones that don't blink an eye in terms of smooth playback of workfiles.

We, in my opinion, need to get really serious about finding out why many of the others seem to process audio so much more error/overload free.

 

Edited April 4, 2020 by Jon White

[TVR PRODUCTIONS]

What made you ask this question? Wasn’t their an update last month? It isn’t like they disappeared. I wasn’t worried at all. That said, I also want to jump on the bandwagon and thank the Bandlab team for developing Cakewalk for free to its end users, that is incredibly generous. It made me abandon Samplitude Pro X3 a year after buying it.

[Feral State Sound]

On 4/4/2020 at 2:41 PM, Jon White said:

Hopefully -- and I say this with due respect and no ill intent -- it will improve the audio engine's efficiency in working with audio drivers and processing.  

Although I'm a Cake/Sonar/Cake user since the late eighties, I've used many DAWs in that time and I find that we have the most audio glitches of any of them -- almost to the point of me changing at my home studio many times in favor of ones that don't blink an eye in terms of smooth playback of workfiles.

We, in my opinion, need to get really serious about finding out why many of the others seem to process audio so much more error/overload free.

 

I agree with you. The audio engine is very fragile, specially when using VST plugins. 

[bitflipper]

4 hours ago, Feral State Sound said:

I agree with you. The audio engine is very fragile, specially when using VST plugins. 

In my experience, the "audio engine" is not fragile. It's actually quite robust.

If there is ever an issue with a specific plugin, it's going to be with the VST interface and how it's been implemented by the plugin vendor. Sometimes, changes need to be made to CW to accommodate the peculiarities of a particular plugin. There have also been times when the plugin itself was buggy or did not conform to the VST spec. But those have nothing to do with the "audio engine".

[Starship Krupa]

On 4/1/2020 at 3:52 AM, GreenLight said:

If it was a paid product I wouldn't worry as much

Then you should have been around when the demise of SONAR and the entire Cakewalk, Inc. was announced. SONAR was a paid product.

BandLab's Cakewalk, on the other hand, isn't dependent on the sales of licensing fees in order to thrive, therefore its survival is not as tied to the fluctuations of the economy as a DAW that depends on selling licenses for revenue. How many people are shelling out $300 licenses for DAW software right now? It's the payware titles that are going to be looking at trouble.

Furthermore, AFAIK, Cakewalk's development team already mostly if not entirely work in home offices, so there likely hasn't had to be a large adjustment in terms of work logistics. They're already set up to handle a situation such as we find ourselves in.

BandLab is a well-funded company who like to acquire and nurture much-loved MI brands. Cakewalk is one of four free DAW's in their portfolio.

One of the side effects of not needing to grub for license fees is that when the developers want to really work on the product, they can hold the next release longer than usual to make sure that the new feature(s) are working properly, that whatever bug fixes are sound, etc. without worrying that the company needs upgrade license money to pay their salaries.

So kick back, relax, learn something about Cakewalk you didn't already know how to use. Wait for the next Early Access release to ooh and aah over.

Honestly, if I were a Logic X or Cubase or Studio One devotee I'd be much more concerned about disruptions in development.

[Brian Walton]

On 4/4/2020 at 10:07 PM, TVR PRODUCTIONS said:

What made you ask this question? Wasn’t their an update last month? It isn’t like they disappeared. I wasn’t worried at all. That said, I also want to jump on the bandwagon and thank the Bandlab team for developing Cakewalk for free to its end users, that is incredibly generous. It made me abandon Samplitude Pro X3 a year after buying it.

Pretty sure the last one was in January.  So we are now getting closer to 3 months.

There is also this corona virus thing that is impacting businesss globally.    Without obvious activity during this time, I think it is a fair question to ask.

I wasn't worried, but I can understand how others would be curious.  

[Jon White]

3 hours ago, bitflipper said:

In my experience, the "audio engine" is not fragile. It's actually quite robust.

If there is ever an issue with a specific plugin, it's going to be with the VST interface and how it's been implemented by the plugin vendor. Sometimes, changes need to be made to CW to accommodate the peculiarities of a particular plugin. There have also been times when the plugin itself was buggy or did not conform to the VST spec. But those have nothing to do with the "audio engine".

Hmmm, well, not correct if you broaden what he may really mean: that adding anything complex (plugins) to an already-unstable (at times) Sonar/Cakewalk just tips the scale to overload and flaky behavior.  Funny, 'cause just this afternoon I created a simple three-channel Kontakt setup and the audio started segmenting like a machine gun when I started the second instrument.  I saved the file, restarted and it worked for a bit.  It just adds up to frustration.  I went to Nuendo and setup a 16-channel Kontakt project, loaded big pianos, orchestrals and whatnot into ten of the channels, added busses for group effects and even put Izotope 9 in the master bus and not one single glitch or hesitation, as usual.  I don't like ProTools (but have to use it at times for group work), but it never fails, either, but for once every four months just closing abruptly.  

C'mon Bandlab, let's see why this softwawe is touchy for some.  And posters, don't feel that it it logical to claim that it doesn't happen to you, because that's not the point.  It has to be how Cake coordinates with ASIO drivers and hardware flow/logic.  To really tickle a tough topic, I also believe that Sequoia/Samplitude SOUNDS better.  I've tried to deny it, but time after time I believe I hear it, and I don't want to, believe me. I want Cake to be everything it can be, because I love the layout and workflow.

Edited April 8, 2020 by Jon White

[GreenLight]

3 hours ago, Brian Walton said:

Pretty sure the last one was in January.  So we are now getting closer to 3 months.

There is also this corona virus thing that is impacting businesss globally.    Without obvious activity during this time, I think it is a fair question to ask.

I wasn't worried, but I can understand how others would be curious.  

Exactly, those were some of my thoughts. And it also seemed that there was unusually low participation from staff during a couple of months (although it just goes to show we are in fact very spoiled with that normally)... ? Anyway, I'm at ease now that Bandlab showed some signs of life. ?

[GreenLight]

6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Then you should have been around when the demise of SONAR and the entire Cakewalk, Inc. was announced. SONAR was a paid product.

BandLab's Cakewalk, on the other hand, isn't dependent on the sales of licensing fees in order to thrive, therefore its survival is not as tied to the fluctuations of the economy as a DAW that depends on selling licenses for revenue. How many people are shelling out $300 licenses for DAW software right now? It's the payware titles that are going to be looking at trouble.

BandLab is a well-funded company who like to acquire and nurture much-loved MI brands. Cakewalk is one of four free DAW's in their portfolio.

One of the side effects of not needing to grub for license fees is that when the developers want to really work on the product, they can hold the next release longer than usual to make sure that the new feature(s) are working properly, that whatever bug fixes are sound, etc. without worrying that the company needs upgrade license money to pay their salaries.

Hehe, yes I was around then as well, I've been around since Pro Audio 8.5 or so.  (In fact, I invested in the lifetime updates almost exactly one year before the demise of Cakewalk Inc.! ?)

I agree with all your arguments and sincerely hope you are right. But I myself cannot claim any inside knowledge into the finances of Bandlab or rather more importantly, their priorities. As a "free side product", I do get a feeling that it might "sit looser", relatively speaking, compared to a product that actually makes the company money, but if the company is rich, then we're good. (And I did get the impression that Meng was indeed rather... solvent. ) Sorry, I did not intend to start a full scale debate about Bandlab's business model, so I'll just end it here.

I'm off to re-explore the great SysEx features of Cakewalk with my almost forgotten Access Virus B! ?

[Starship Krupa]

5 hours ago, Jon White said:

let's see why this softwawe is touchy for some

Jon, since you're obviously having some serious playback issues, as I've read in your other posts, could you do as I've done and put more about your system's specs in your sig? There are so many variables with hardware on Windows systems, I know you have more trouble than most and I seem to remember you are using a PCIe card for audio, but I don't remember what version of Windows, what video card, etc.

Also, regarding Samplitude's playback engine sounding better to your ears, that is entirely possible. MAGIX claim to have completely overhauled their engine about a year or so ago up and down the line all the way down to Music Creator. There are some who will say "all DAW's sound the same, it's been proven," but that statement can't be true, it makes no sense. For it to be true, every DAW would have to use the same summing algorithms when mixing, use plug-ins the same way, implement panning the same way, and on and on.

The statement could only be true as far as recording an audio test file with no effects, then playing it back with no effects, which is not what DAW's are for. I was a user of Mixcraft before I tried Cakewalk, and I noticed the difference immediately. Cakewalk sounded smooth and silky by comparison, Mixcraft harder edged.

Also, there is playback and there is mixdown/bounce, which are two different processes. A DAW developer may choose to cut corners on the playback engine in order to make it more efficient, which could be why Mixcraft so seldom drops out on me compared to Cakewalk, but Cakewalk sounds better. I know from studying the two of them that Mixcraft isn't streaming audio from the disk during playback, unlike Cakewalk.

[Jon White]

1 hour ago, Starship Krupa said:

Jon, ...

Starship, what a wonderful response from you, amidst me probably irritating so many with my thoughts (and not by intention). 

Yes, my particular system may be quite vulnerable to performance weaknesses, and I appreciate your interest and have a very positive faith that you would help to the end in solving particular problems that I and others may have.  That is core human spirit.

But I'll work with my systems, if you'll accept my praise! 

As you know, my point is that Sonar is a bit more vulnerable in general to many little things, in my opinion.  I just left two really tough weeks in a professional recording studio (I'm a very humble bassist, and am hard on myself -- thus the "tough" part), and in the moments of control-room review of material I had some great discussions with the lead engineer (studio owner).  I bragged-up Sonar for four or five reasons that he totally agreed with, and then, very peacefully, he placed it in perspective for me with the question "How stable is it?" and the position "You do a great deal of recording in your own studio, so I would ask you to consider whether you'd use Sonar for paying clients on a deadline, amidst a studio that has overhead costs (rent, loans)."  I felt like he knew about Sonar. I'm pretty sure he did.  He even said that he was captive to a dated ProTools workflow under the attributes of its familiarity and stabiilty.

It was not more than the whisp of time between his last words and them hitting my ears that I sadly said "No, I would struggle to stay even."

Now, that being said, I COULD possibly have experts come in (maybe they'd have to be Cake dev teammates) and solve my PARTICULAR idiosyncratic setup issues (like this wonderful forum does for so many), but that's not the point.  Cake, a KILLER software platform for music production, has one more level to conquer.  

I'm an executive technical director type, by trade.  If I were with Cake, I'd joyfully drive the team to match the needs of at least close-to studio reliability.  Close-to.  I'd proudly say that we have one of the best human/PC interfaces ever made, and spur organizational pride in getting the core tech to kick major boodie.

And I'd definitely engage the bright minds at Cake/Bandlab to truly investigate why I might mistakenly belived that Sequoia has a sheen and comprehensive wholeness in its audio that other DAWs lack.

Are you a musician, Star?  Bless your engagement here.

Jonas

 

And let me add that Cake, being "free" of charge, is the complete Godzilla of a software DAW offering in the world.  Reaper is great, but can't hold a birthday cake candle to "Sonar".

Edited April 9, 2020 by Jon White