Is BUS AUTOMATION supposed to be latency compensated in CbB

[Gill20]

Hey there all :

on a not to heavy session, in order for a reverb return CUT automation (using volume),  to be landing on the "1" (bar 26 in my exemple below) I need to offset the automation points quite a bit

Is this normal behaviour/something to be expected in CbD

Illustration below

[Gill20]

further enquiring this, bus automation are not latency compensated.

On an empty project with a couple of plugins, timing of bus automations is correct

When projects get advanced and plugin count gets higher, bus automations are being offset/delayed

This makes it impossible to create cool fxs/cuts that are tight with the piece & can be pretty detrimental in a context of modern sounding music making

does anybody know why? is this a limitation? as this was not the case in 8.5 btw on very heavier sessions

[GreenLight]

Hm, weird, I have not had problems with the timing of bus automation, I have been automating many bus volume levels and bus effect parameters during the years. Also to create cool effects & cuts.

Are there any specific plugins that cause issues?

[Gill20]

2 hours ago, GreenLight said:

Hm, weird, I have not had problems with the timing of bus automation, I have been automating many bus volume levels and bus effect parameters during the years. Also to create cool effects & cuts.

Are there any specific plugins that cause issues?

still enquiring this, hold

[William W. Saunders, Jr.]

I don't have this problem either, but in the event you are automating effect sends, you aren't going to be able to cut off the tail of a reverb by silencing the send.  You have to automate the reverb bus volume if you want to do that.

[Gill20]

allright so - I'm having a ton of problems it seems now that my session has gotten near completion. mind you this is a massive session with a lot of processing going on (as it should for large mixes), a ton of automation, and now even simple TRACK volume automation are not accurate anymore. I was suspecting buffering issues this morning before closing the project and going to bed -

today, I purchased a new tool : True Dynamics by Kazrog for bus compression (unbeliebable processor btw)

I load the plugin

instant "buzzing" and distortion on my heavy session.

I try it on an empty session, and one with not too much going on, no buzzing no distortion.

I try it in a heavy session in ableton Live, no buzzing no distortion.

I decide to write to the developper, what he replies is in the image below

This makes a whole lot of sense and completly correlates with all the automation issues I'm having, the further and heavier a project gets.

 

[Gill20]

50 minutes ago, William W. Saunders, Jr. said:

I don't have this problem either, but in the event you are automating effect sends, you aren't going to be able to cut off the tail of a reverb by silencing the send.  You have to automate the reverb bus volume if you want to do that.

same issues wether track automation, bus volume (or other) automation... this has to do with "under-the-hood" things with CbB

Edited March 22, 2020 by Gill20

[David Baay]

On 3/20/2020 at 3:40 PM, Gill20 said:

When projects get advanced and plugin count gets higher, bus automations are being offset/delayed

Have not looked into this, but if automation were not compensated for latency, iI would expected it to be happening too early, not late/delayed, relative to the audio. But it might depend where the automation is happening relative to where the plugin is operating. If I'm understanding correctly, you're automating volume on a reverb bus, and there is a delay-inducing plugin(s) is on track that sends to that bus. Is that right? Is the reverb also a convolution type, or otherwise inducing delay of its own?

 

[GreenLight]

21 hours ago, Gill20 said:

same issues wether track automation, bus volume (or other) automation... this has to do with "under-the-hood" things with CbB

What version of CbB are you using? I've actually stayed at 2019.09 so far, as the later releases introduced a lot of buffer changes that seemed to caused a lot of stir. Maybe they're solved ny now, but I'm in an important phase and can't have disturbances.

Sorry if this is obvious, but as you mention "buzzing" and distortion in a heavy project: have you tried different (= larger) ASIO buffer sizes? In another thread recently, someone was complaining about latency but used plugins that absolutely required big buffers to work properly, like Output's Kontakt stuff etc.

Edit: Thanks for the tip about True Dynamics by Kazrog, will check it out. Seems they adore it at Gearslutz.

Edited March 22, 2020 by GreenLight
Added stuff.

[GreenLight]

...but I'm not sure I agree with Shane McFee's analysis that Cakewalk's popularity is dwindling... judged by this forum at least, there seems to be a lot of new users around, which is great!