Performance help - question?

[Max Arwood]

I have been looking at Panup's post about export speed- so - I thought I might do a quick test on playback since I Have been having so much trouble with playback lately.  I built a project with 6 Duplicate tracks. I picked the plugins randomly. I do hear that Abbey Road is in the higher CPU category.

VST3's

Abbey Road Plates Stereo

Abbey Road Saturator

GW Mixcentric

CLA-3A

Fabfilter Q3

Fabfilter L2 Pro

I get 49-52% CPU usage in The latest version of Cakewalk.

I took the same audio track, the same plugins in the same order I also set up 6 Duplicate tracks.

Reaper CPU 3-4%

 

I have never even set up a track in Reaper or used it until tonight  - I am a dedicated Cakewalk fan.

Why such a big difference?  Can't we play a little catch up and narrow the difference? I don't want to buy a new computer and new audio card to use cakewalk.

Please investigate this.

 

Thanks,

Max Arwood

 

[Max Arwood]

Like I said I do not know anything about Reaper - I had the FX bins all off!!!  When I turned on the first tracks FX bin Reaper crashed. It would not play the project.  I tried the same 6 tracks in Samplitude X4.  CPU 36% - but the project would not even play.  Cakewalk is the only DAW that would play this project.

I still a fanboy always was.  Sorry no one even replied to tell me something must be wrong this difference would be impossible. 

Thanks,

Max Arwood

[Robert Bone]

Sorry, had your post up, but fell asleep.   Certain types of plugins really put the whammy on things, if the ASIO Buffer Size (it is usually represented by some number of samples, like 32, 64, 128, etc., up to either 1024 or 2048),  is set to anything less than 1024.  These plugins that require such a large ASIO Buffer Size are designed to be used only during Mixing/Mastering, and not during the recording phase of a project's work flow.

If your project has plugins loaded, such as a Convolution Reverb (Breverb, for example), or that use Linear Phase (LP64, for example), you will not be able to effectively be able to record, because they really require a super large ASIO Buffer Size to do their 'Look-Ahead Processing', where they read a large block of data ahead of the current position in the audio stream, and by looking ahead at the data that is coming, they then react in their processing.

Anyways, a long while back, I learned that, for the rest of time, I needed to switch between a small ASIO Buffer Size (I use either 128 or 64), and a giant size (1024 or 2048), depending on if I am recording, or just doing playback during mixing.  The smaller buffer, during recording, keeps the latency down low enough to where when I play notes, or sing, or whatever, it syncs up just fine to the other tracks.  During recording, I ALWAYS make sure that if I have any of those plugins that require a giant buffer, I either power off those plugins, or swap them out for other similar kinds of plugins that don't require such a large buffer, and then I have no latency/processing issues because of those plugins.  One other way of temporarily disengaging plugins, is to hit the letter 'E' on the computer keyboard, which is a Cakewalk shortcut key that toggles the bypassing of all effects in the project either Off or On.  Any of those 3 methods will keep those plugins from interfering with the recording process.

Conversely, whenever I am finished recording, and have moved on to mixing/mastering, I am now really in playback mode, so even though I then jack up the ASIO Buffer Size to either 1024 or 2048, that extra latency doesn't matter, because I don't have to try to sync up anymore, since I am not recording.  If it takes an extra half-second before playback starts, it doesn't matter.  The giant ASIO Buffer Size then allows those plugins that expect/require a large buffer, to work properly, and the universe becomes creamy smooth again. 

No matter which DAW, the combination of what plugins are active, plus the ASIO Buffer Size, and whether recording or just playing back, all have to work together, to avoid issues with streaming audio processing.

Lots of times, the descriptions for a given plugin, will mention if it is designed for mixing/mastering, or if it uses 'look-ahead processing', and over time, you can learn and remamber which ones you need to make sure aren't active when recording.  Other than that - just also remember to use a small buffer when recording, and a giant buffer when mixing/mastering or even just playback, when those types of effects are active.

It is useful to look up the latency for plugins where you do not know how it will affect latency in you projects.  Here is a link for Waves plugins, that has the latency of each plugin listed: https://www.waves.com/support/tech-specs/plugin-latency  You can also do a Google search using a plugin's name and add the search term: 'latency', and you will frequently be able to see whether or not a given plugin should be only added or made active, once you have moved past recording and on to mixing/mastering.

From the plugins you listed above, the GW Mixcentric, and the 2 Fabfilter plugins, all look like you shouldn't use them unless you have set your ASIO Buffer Size to a really large value, and that, of course, then means they are NOT meant for use during recording.

Try your test again, but first make sure your ASIO Buffer Size is properly set to accomodate the specific active plugins in the project.

Bob Bone

[Max Arwood]

Wow thanks for that latency chart.  I don't know what some of those letters mean but  I can at least find the stuff I use a lot.

This was a test track - I picked a few plugins that were hard on CPU on purpose. Then duplicated to 5 times to make 6 tracks.  Just a test.  Latency set to 2048. I would hardly ever put Abby Roads Reverbs or Fabfilter L2 Pro on a track!

Finally got Reaper to work. CPU 62%-65%  ( You can not use VST3 - TG mastering processor in Reaper - Crashes every time!)

                               Cakewalk   -   CPU 47%-48%

                             Samplitude X4  - Still Would not play the song.

I am PROUD of Cakewalk - it is the only DAW I own that would even play this song! Samplitude showed only 36% CPU but still did not play.

I guess I should design another with more tracks using track type effect and a couple of busses with bus type effects.

Thanks for all the info!

 

Max Arwood

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by Max Arwood
type error in numbers