marcL Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Bapu said: I have samplitude and mixcraft. They are dead to me. Not worth my time. Not even Samp v4. Wasted a total of $200 on those two. For me, Samplitude is one of the better Daws out there. For I don't like those EDM style ones! Yes, I confess I am one of those old farts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 17 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: I tried this a few years ago, but came back to windows because of VSTs and games ? Yeah, I'm not saying this is a workable option right now. I also looked at Linux a couple of years ago and, for the same reasons as you, I never bothered. I check about every year or so, see how things are going on the DAW side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 I had Samplitude. It was a dogs breakfast and after about a month of creating a "test project" with it I uninstalled. Each to their own, as the saying goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xoo Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 16 minutes ago, synkrotron said: I had Samplitude. It was a dogs breakfast and after about a month of creating a "test project" with it I uninstalled. Each to their own, as the saying goes... Ditto. I hoped to at least use the FX/synths in CbB or a.n.other DAW but I couldn't. I did get SF11, Spectal Layers (which I still don't understand!) and some Izotope plug-ins bundled so it wasn't a complete write off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synkrotron Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: it was fine for the officey internetty stuff but rubbish for leisure activities Know what you mean... I installed it on an old laptop which originally had Windows XP on it. It was slowly grinding to a halt. So I wiped it and installed Ubuntu on it and gave it a new lease of life. Great for interwebs and e-mail stuff I think I ran Gimp on it too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 9 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: it was fine for the officey internetty stuff but rubbish for leisure activities Regarding commercial (i.e. not free) software for Linux, I wonder if this is more likely due to lack of users, or lack of commercial developers? Chicken or egg thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, pwalpwal said: could also be an open source culture thing I did read somewhere that the current fragmentation of Linux development beyond the kernel level into various "distros", (i.e. https://distrowatch.com/.) and desktop environments (i.e. Gnome, KDE, Xfce, etc.) would make it difficult to distribute a commercial software package that would easily work on all flavors of the OS. There is one project that may solve much of this concern, and is called "Flatpak". https://flatpak.org/ Build for every distro Create one app and distribute it to the entire Linux desktop market. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, pwalpwal said: dunno flatpak but the distro/desktop thing makes sense, although it does imply that using windows avoids that issue! (win version, ,net version, etc etc etc) With Linux desktop, there isn't just one company calling the shots and setting standards like with Microsoft or Apple does with theirs. So there is that. Plus, I think you were also correct about the open source culture. They are not that friendly to closed source software, which is typically the case with commercial software not being open source. That is where a company like Red Hat killed it in the commercial Linux server space. They provided a standardized version of the server software that enterprises could count on to run their businesses on. And sold support for it. Sadly, the Linux desktop still has a long way to go to reach broad commercial acceptance. What's really crazy is that it could be done. Look at what Apple did when it redesigned Mac OSX based on Unix/BSD. So Mac is really a desktop gui environment for a Unix OS (I realize that oversimplifies things a bit, but just for the sake of discussion and to save space ). Edited February 6, 2019 by abacab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, pwalpwal said: budget budget budget... oh how i laughed when macs switched to intel porcessros, and then to some hack-of-linux as an os... Actually Mac OS is not Linux. It is now a certified UNIX, unlike Linux, which is (still UNIX-like) just a hack of UNIX. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2007/08/mac-os-x-leopard-receives-unix-03-certification/ Quote Mac OS X 10.5 on the Intel platform is a "true" UNIX OS, rather than just being UNIX-like. Edited February 6, 2019 by abacab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InstrEd Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Linux for audio. I like the idea but I rather give MS some $ I don't have the time to tinker. Just my 2¢'s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abacab Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, InstrEd said: Linux for audio. I like the idea but I rather give MS some $ I don't have the time to tinker. Just my 2¢'s That discussion of alternatives started yesterday when Craig mentioned the possibility of Microsoft scuttling our Windows DAWs with its push for software in the clouds based services. I plan on sticking with a Windows desktop OS as long as it works. Edited February 6, 2019 by abacab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdiemer Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Reaper now has an official Linux version. That is, not just using Wine, but a true Linux version. One of the big sticking points is the lack of ability to use sound libraries, like East West, Vienna etc. But with their developers, who knows, it may just be a matter of time. If it became really doable, it would be very tempting for me. I already know how to use Reaper and am comfortable with Linux. But my guess is it's years away, if at all. But for those who just want to use synths, it's possible to work now in Reaper Linux. You have to give them credit for trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 15 hours ago, SomeGuy said: It's because Instruments, Effects Packages, Plug-Ins, and features like AAF support are worth money too. Free is nice, but it's a pretty barebones package. You really need to add a lot on top of it to approach what those other DAWs offer out of the box... and many upstarts won't need to buy anything after buying those other DAWs; at least not for a while. The value-adds are often more than worth the increase in price. Melodyne Essential is $99, by itself. Most Paid DAWs bundle this. Instruments and Effects Packages can easily run into the $200+ range if you get something as good as what MAGIX, MOTU, Steinberg, etc. bundle out of the box. At the end of the day, the price of those DAWs is actually quite small, and "Free" for a bare bones package like CbB isn't really that attractive of a value proposition to many. People are discriminate with their choices. It's so easy to do research on these things, these days, and you also are fighting the momentum other products have in the media (i.e. YouTube, Tech Press, etc.). SONAR has existed long enough that Professionals who already own all the Plugins, Instruments, etc. that they need have already - largely - settled on a DAW... SONAR itself, or something else. I don't think it will get the sort of "DaVinci Resolve" effect people are hoping for because DAWs are still - largely - perpetually licensed (or have that option); and many people don't feel the need to constantly upgrade their software year-over-year; especially on Windows, which has excellent backward/forward application compatibility. I think if his was an NLE, it would have been more disruptive. I also think that it could have been a bit more disruptive on macOS, because that platform actually has more room for competitors "under" the "Standards," compared to Windows. The Windows application ecosystem is extremely cutthroat, because there are also viable options for people at the lower end of the market for low cost ($150 or less), which deliver a very nice (more complete "out of the box") package. Yes, I understand that. I'm a "lifer" so I had all those "port over" if you will. However, with a bit of research one can get a lot of Free or very cheap VST and VSTis these days, including some that came with Sonar. Ex. The AAS pugins were basically $1 at plugin boutique. You can get a free drummer in SSD5 (among others). The only effects I think I use that were SPLT supplied and not in Bandlab are MB Comp, LP EQ, Adaptive Limiter and CA-2A. CA-2A was free for anyone for a period of time. Each of these has a nearly free alternative in the market. Though I like Sonar offering better. The other piece here is the fact people are still paying for DAWs...when Cakewalk is free. That same money could be invested in Plugs and Instruments that are frankly of better quality than comes in the box (we had to pay ~$500 to get AD and Melodye...we were not talking about a 100 package to get those real features). I do have Melodyne Studio 4 (something I never would have bought without the Sonar package and upgrades AND Cakewalk rolling out the integration with the Timeline) that is based on ARA. I'm a big supporter of Davinci Resolve - however it doesnt' have anywhere close to the system compatibility as other NLE. It is FAR more picky about the computer you put it on if it will actually work and perform properly. Davinci Resolve won't even open on a computer that I've done Multi-Cam HD productions on with an Old version of PP for many years. I can run it on a new laptop but it doesnt' even have great playback with a single cam. Don't get me wrong, if the computer will run it, it is beyond fantastic. However it has a limited scope of computers the thing will actually work on. Edited February 6, 2019 by Brian Walton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Brian Walton said: Yes, I understand that. I'm a "lifer" so I had all those "port over" if you will. However, with a bit of research one can get a lot of Free or very cheap VST and VSTis these days, including some that came with Sonar. Ex. The AAS pugins were basically $1 at plugin boutique. You can get a free drummer in SSD5 (among others). The only effects I think I use that were SPLT supplied and not in Bandlab are MB Comp, LP EQ, Adaptive Limiter and CA-2A. CA-2A was free for anyone for a period of time. Each of these has a nearly free alternative in the market. Though I like Sonar offering better. The other piece here is the fact people are still paying for DAWs...when Cakewalk is free. That same money could be invested in Plugs and Instruments that are frankly of better quality than comes in the box (we had to pay ~$500 to get AD and Melodye...we were not talking about a 100 package to get those real features). I do have Melodyne Studio 4 (something I never would have bought without the Sonar package and upgrades AND Cakewalk rolling out the integration with the Timeline) that is based on ARA. I'm a big supporter of Davinci Resolve - however it doesnt' have anywhere close to the system compatibility as other NLE. It is FAR more picky about the computer you put it on if it will actually work and perform properly. Davinci Resolve won't even open on a computer that I've done Multi-Cam HD productions on with an Old version of PP for many years. I can run it on a new laptop but it doesnt' even have great playback with a single cam. Don't get me wrong, if the computer will run it, it is beyond fantastic. However it has a limited scope of computers the thing will actually work on. A lot of those free Effects and Instruments are terrible-to-mediocre. I'm actually speaking from experience, because Cakewalk being free was initially the big "pull" to me... However, the "price" is not working out to be much of a competitive advantage since I'll probably have to pay $200 to bolt on AAF support, $150 for Orchestral Instruments (like Garrison Personal Orchestra 5), and then some - even if other DAWs have perfectly serviceable content for my uses. The "Free" stuff that I've found has been pretty lackluster (worse than a lot of the stuff that is bundled with DAWs), and that's not even touching on things like Cinematic Loops/One Hits/SFX and similar content that is bundled with DAWs, these days (i.e. SONAR Platinum actually bundled a decent amount of this type of content). So, I'm stuck at a weird situation where I like the interface and the way it's integrated/optimized well for my choice platform... but it might not be worth it in the grand scheme of things because other DAWs come with perfectly usable content out of the box, and it would be a one and done purchase for me at this point. I'm not very interested in the EDM/Trance/Hip Hop type stuff that is popular, these days ? Plus, having to manage all of those licenses (and probably multiple extra web accounts) vs. one DAW purchase. Convenience is also a factor, at least for me. Edited February 6, 2019 by SomeGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gswitz Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Because they need admin privs to truly know the genius that is Bapu. He's been holding back and they were afraid they might be missing stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 8 hours ago, pwalpwal said: budget budget budget... oh how i laughed when macs switched to intel porcessros, and then to some hack-of-linux as an os... macOS is a UNIX operating system. It's not hack-of-Linux. Lol... And a lot of the value isn't in the core OS, but the layers on top of it. Those APIs and SDKs don't write themselves... 9 hours ago, pwalpwal said: could also be an open source culture thing Companies tried bringing Commercial consumer-market software to the Linux market. The users [generally] didn't want to pay for it. So, multiple companies almost killed themselves with "Linux strategies" and not the market has largely been scared off. 9 hours ago, abacab said: That is where a company like Red Hat killed it in the commercial Linux server space. They provided a standardized version of the server software that enterprises could count on to run their businesses on. And sold support for it. Server OSes are always LTS, and they are managed differently than consumer machines... RH made it's money through support, not software sales (despite the fact that RHEL was more expensive than Microsoft Windows). 10 hours ago, synkrotron said: Know what you mean... I installed it on an old laptop which originally had Windows XP on it. It was slowly grinding to a halt. So I wiped it and installed Ubuntu on it and gave it a new lease of life. Great for interwebs and e-mail stuff I think I ran Gimp on it too... XP was designed for hardware from the 99-01 era. Vista has much higher system requirements, and Windows 7/8/10 basically have the same requirements as Vista. XP was designed for the type of hardware that would run Windows 2000. It's going to bottleneck newer windows versions. I have a low end laptop here (designed for 7) that is slow no matter what OS I put on it. Ubuntu, Windows 7, Windows 10... It doesn't matter. Slow CPUs, RAM, Storage, etc. is going to be slow. Most people who say installing Linux gave the PC a new lease on life are really describing a placebo effect. Linux has system requirements too, and unless you strip it down incredibly and run a low-requirement desktop environment (which Unity, GNOME, and KDE all are/were not), it would run just as badly on that slow hardware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notes_Norton Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 (edited) On 2/5/2019 at 11:10 AM, pwalpwal said: did you try all the various "compatibilty" options in win10? Yes, and unfortunately it didn't work. The newer buggy version works, so it's Ctrl+S every minute or two. But it's orphaned with no support so it's way past it's 'use by' date. But I have everything saved in both MTPro and MIDI type 1 format so as long as MIDI files are standard, I won't lose anything. Insights and incites by Notes Edited February 6, 2019 by Notes_Norton addition - afterthought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, SomeGuy said: A lot of those free Effects and Instruments are terrible-to-mediocre. I'm actually speaking from experience, because Cakewalk being free was initially the big "pull" to me... However, the "price" is not working out to be much of a competitive advantage since I'll probably have to pay $200 to bolt on AAF support, $150 for Orchestral Instruments (like Garrison Personal Orchestra 5), and then some - even if other DAWs have perfectly serviceable content for my uses. The "Free" stuff that I've found has been pretty lackluster (worse than a lot of the stuff that is bundled with DAWs), and that's not even touching on things like Cinematic Loops/One Hits/SFX and similar content that is bundled with DAWs, these days (i.e. SONAR Platinum actually bundled a decent amount of this type of content). So, I'm stuck at a weird situation where I like the interface and the way it's integrated/optimized well for my choice platform... but it might not be worth it in the grand scheme of things because other DAWs come with perfectly usable content out of the box, and it would be a one and done purchase for me at this point. I'm not very interested in the EDM/Trance/Hip Hop type stuff that is popular, these days ? Plus, having to manage all of those licenses (and probably multiple extra web accounts) vs. one DAW purchase. Convenience is also a factor, at least for me. You are doing it wrong if Cakewalk + $500 doesn't get you everything you need to produce good music. $500 is the tier these other "comperable" products are at that include real content. All of this is better than what comes with any DAW under $300. https://vis.versilstudios.com/vsco-community.html http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/explore/sound_samples https://samplesfrommars.com/products/all-products-from-mars https://stevenslatedrums.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011778653-SSD5-Free-Win-Installation This was $40 https://samplesfrommars.com/products/all-products-from-mars Cinematic Loops/OneHits/Etc that you get with Platinum. Well if you don't produce EDM/Trance/Hip hop, not sure how much real value they have then. When I went through the SPLT content, that is what I kept thinking this stuff is primarily usable for that type of music produciton. You can get that kind of content for $5 by buying a Computer Music Magazine digitally and then downloading the content. Do that with the right purchases and for about $30 you could have a collection of content that is far larger than what comes included. LOTs of Free/Cheap loop/sample content out there. that $5 purchase will also get you a bunch of Pro Quality Effects and Instruments. While there is a lot of Free Junk out there, plenty of stuff that is just as good as the paid products. The AAS stuff I mentioned is top tier and was available for a period of time for literally $1. If you get such a package with a DAW it will be tied to that DAW or it will require another authorization method. Lack of AAF support (or good support) is common with a number of DAWs, it isn't just a Cakewalk limitaiton. I work with video a lot and frankly never need it for the work I do. As for transfering projects to other DAWs, the pros I work with don't care about it and just want unprocessed tracks for mixing/mastering if I'm sending it out for that purpose. All depends on the content you are looking for. If you are not willing to do any real research on the market, then yes, paying money for a package might be a good option (and Sonar was one of the BEST paid options for the content it came with). Just like people buy the giant Waves bundles only to find out they really only use 3-4 plug ins in the package that they could have bought for $25 a piece. Edited February 7, 2019 by Brian Walton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tezza Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Didn't you know, all the best things in life are free. I don't actually use Cakewalk because it's free, I have other DAW's I have paid good money for. I use it because I like it the best. I could write the reasons but that would be too long a post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Some Guy Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brian Walton said: You are doing it wrong if Cakewalk + $500 doesn't get you everything you need to produce good music. $500 is the tier these other "comperable" products are at that include real content. All of this is better than what comes with any DAW under $300. https://vis.versilstudios.com/vsco-community.html http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/explore/sound_samples https://samplesfrommars.com/products/all-products-from-mars https://stevenslatedrums.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360011778653-SSD5-Free-Win-Installation This was $40 https://samplesfrommars.com/products/all-products-from-mars Cinematic Loops/OneHits/Etc that you get with Platinum. Well if you don't produce EDM/Trance/Hip hop, not sure how much real value they have then. When I went through the SPLT content, that is what I kept thinking this stuff is primarily usable for that type of music produciton. You can get that kind of content for $5 by buying a Computer Music Magazine digitally and then downloading the content. Do that with the right purchases and for about $30 you could have a collection of content that is far larger than what comes included. LOTs of Free/Cheap loop/sample content out there. that $5 purchase will also get you a bunch of Pro Quality Effects and Instruments. While there is a lot of Free Junk out there, plenty of stuff that is just as good as the paid products. The AAS stuff I mentioned is top tier and was available for a period of time for literally $1. If you get such a package with a DAW it will be tied to that DAW or it will require another authorization method. Lack of AAF support (or good support) is common with a number of DAWs, it isn't just a Cakewalk limitaiton. I work with video a lot and frankly never need it for the work I do. As for transfering projects to other DAWs, the pros I work with don't care about it and just want unprocessed tracks for mixing/mastering if I'm sending it out for that purpose. All depends on the content you are looking for. If you are not willing to do any real research on the market, then yes, paying money for a package might be a good option (and Sonar was one of the BEST paid options for the content it came with). Just like people buy the giant Waves bundles only to find out they really only use 3-4 plug ins in the package that they could have bought for $25 a piece. I can Competitive Upgrade to Digital Performer for $395. Or Buy Samplitude Pro X4 for $399. For people doing loop-based music (not me), ACID Pro 8 is $149 and is perfectly usable for upstarts, and ships with all the needed Instruments and Synths, plus a ton of Loops; and they're pretty good quality (same as the ones used in other MAGIX DAWs). VSCO isn't that great. I've tried it (multiple times). It's worse than the VITA instruments you get from MAGIX (which I have also used) with Music Maker. Just loading MIDI files and playing them with each Piano, the difference is beyond noticeable (not to its benefit). I'd just get Garrison Personal Orchestra if I were to stick with Cakewalk by BandLab ($150). With a DAW like Samplitude or Digital Performer, I'd just use what they come with; which is perfectly serviceable. Once you hear better instruments, it's hard to listen to that... I also need AAF Support. That's $200 for AATranslator - unless I switch my NLE to Premiere Pro CC (which has good OMF support), but that increases costs by $250+/year... So AA Translator is the way to go, there. A lot of the Cinematic Loops were useful outside of Trance, etc. The loops for those genres, I'd just ignore , clearly. In any case, they were value adds, which was my point. For those who used them, it helped justify the price of the higher SONAR SKUs (SONAR and other DAWs). I don't do much with drums. I mainly need decent Orchestral instruments and good MIDI editing, so the Drums and Electronic Guitar stuff is of very little use to me. But I will definitely say that my needs aren't "typical" for the user base this software has tended to keep; although I can also say bringing in users like me is a natural consequence of what they've done by opening up the product to everyone ? Edited February 7, 2019 by SomeGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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