Sander Verstraten Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Not as much due to GAS, but mostly because too many options have me procrastinating a lot of my time, instead of making music. I'm getting rid of some software, can I do full account sales for these: - Proppelerheads/Reason Studios - XLN - FXPansion Only just created a KVR account, so I'm waiting for the period before I can make any FS post there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarine Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) As far as I know... Be aware that this is usually against the EULA, so the buyer likely has no rights to use the software that was licensed to you, as the contract (license agreement) is between the software [license] provider and the original purchaser. In other words the buyer merely acquires the means to use the software, not rights. It is also risky for the buyer because the seller - as the actual licensee - may retroactively reclaim his means to use the software and has the account credentials and receipts to prove his ownership, whereas the buyer has e.g. a PayPal receipt for a transaction that is against the license terms. So as a general rule, don't buy unless you have solid reasons to trust the seller, and whether you're buying or selling do it discreetly. Also, when selling digital goods (especially in transactions that leave minimal traces or only take place between the two parties e.g. in form of text communication such as exchanging serials or account credentials) only accept "friends & family" payments via PayPal unless you trust the buyer, because the common trick is to request PayPal to return the buyer's money on basis of "undelivered goods" because proving the contrary may be impossible and not in PayPal's interests to an extent that buyer satisfaction is, as most PayPal users are buyers. Edited January 6, 2020 by sarine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartabartfast Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 You are going to have to check with whoever licenses the software to see what re-sale options you have. In the US the courts have pretty much confirmed the "licensed not sold" argument. In some countries (last I checked Germany was one) the contract is not considered valid in that it limits your right to re-sell. Nonetheless, digital rights protection exists on a lot of software that will prevent you from installing/activating on a new computer without the licensor's cooperation regardless of the copyright issues. Companies that operate under laws that guarantee the right to sell usually have a mechanism to transfer the software to another individual for a fee, and to guarantee to that individual the right to use it. In the US you might have to give the buyer access to your account in order for him to use digitally protected software, which has other implications depending on what information the account holder will have access to. In addition you and he will be committing a fraud against the company if he is using your account pretending to be you with your assistance. Whenever possible most software developers try to make your "purchase" of the software irrevocable and nontransferable as they make more money on selling new software while yours goes into the trash can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZincT Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I have found these two KVR threads useful for finding out about license transfer policies... https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=354654 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=520503 Not sure whether they cover full account transfers but might be worth a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarine Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 This may be an unpopular opinion and improper place and time for making it known, but regardless, IMO, license transfers make little sense economically. It is usually made clear (with varying success) that software license purchases are final i.e. non-refundable and "caveat emptor". I can totally understand vendors who impose fees on license transfers so that some of the money from the transfer flows their way, because it should have been a more substantial amount of money to begin with (paid by the new licensee). No software vendor makes the promise that you'll be using their application every day of the rest of your life gaining great benefits from every hour of use, and as the chances of that happening are virtually zero the buyer should accept the risk of low personal value when making the purchase. I don't know, but I guess, that resales are bad for the developers. But I haven't deeply thought about all aspects and effects, so... change my mind. Then there's the consumer and end user me, who shakes their fist whenever I find out that a vendor may be so vicious as to charge heftily for license transfers or God forbid outright deny them. I get it, I just don't like it. But I feel inclined to think it's not these unlikable policies that are wrong and need adjustment, but my spending habits and the deal-chasing brain wiring. I see people on this very forum considering paying hundreds of bucks for a handful of virtual instruments a series of "no-brainers" (really makes you think sometimes what the "no-braining" actually stands for), while some stuck-up hipster has a rage fit over a developer having the insolence to charge $10 for their brilliant app - and he has the rage fit on his $1400 iPad Pro. What can I say is, I think we bipedal apes have got some issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bohlen Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 All those 3 vendors allow license transfers. No need to hand over your accounts. https://help.reasonstudios.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002214773-How-does-the-license-number-transfer-process-work- https://www.xlnaudio.com/support/i-want-to-sell-my-xln-audio-products-are-license-transfers-allowed https://support.roli.com/support/solutions/articles/36000060202-fxpansion-license-transfers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Sorrels Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Account transfers are almost always a bad idea from a purchaser point of view. You can't legally buy an account, unless the vendor permits it. Any transaction like that could be voided at any time in the future. Account transfers to avoid vendor fees are not only not legally invalid but may also be illegal -- dodging the fee might be considered fraud/theft. Though only a court might be able to work that out, but in general it's not a good idea for either the seller or the buyer. When buying something, if the seller insists on Paypal friends and family, walk away as fast as you can. See this recent thread on KvR for an example of why:https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=537108 And yes it does mean that when selling you may could find your Paypal transaction disputed (though I don't think it's all that common trick, since it's a crime and is illegal also). This is why you shouldn't sell to people with no post history/no reputation. Documentation of the transaction can help, but in general Paypal isn't anyone's friend and the audio software/library trading area is full of scammers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Jones Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Matthew Sorrels said: When buying something, if the seller insists on Paypal friends and family, walk away as fast as you can. See this recent thread on KvR for an example of why:https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=537108 That's messed up. Those guys actually did get scammed. When I sell on there I offer to accept "friends and family" for buyer's sake, otherwise buyer pays fees. But yeah insisting on only "friends and family" is shady af especially when the dude was saying stuff that didn't even make sense. So that must be what the guys trying to sell their entire Waves account a.k.a "Waves account takeover" are up to .. so the seller avoids the Waves fees, which I think average around $10 per plugin for the seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarine Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Matthew Sorrels said: When buying something, if the seller insists on Paypal friends and family, walk away as fast as you can. A little bit hyperbolic? It's a question of "rep for cred". I always demand F&F from the buyer on PayPal if they have a new or low activity account. If they're well established in the community or perhaps moreso than myself, then I will give them the option to deal under buyer's protection (them covering the extra expense). Have done numerous successful transactions both ways. It all comes down to trust and a lot of that is based on face value. Pertaining to online trading, I have a good track record in investing trust in people, and I think it's realistic to say at this point that my success can't be attributed to lucky dice rolls. On the other hand, if all you had to work with in making decisions were the dice then I might give them the same advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 So, what you got on ur XLN account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Verstraten Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 On my XLN Account I got AD1 and 2 and a couple of Add Packs. I want to get rid of all the Drum VST except for the Toontrack stuff. Be more focussed in my music creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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