foldaway

Thanks. I just sent it before I saw your message 🙂 I gave it quite a few goes opening in safe mode with my best guesses but there's a ~200 plugin instances & I just haven't got the time at the moment! Which leads me to a small feature request! It'd be really nice to have a check list of used plugins when starting opening in safe mode, such that the plugins can be ticked/unticked to determine if they are loaded or not. nb. not individual plugin instances but by the plugin itself. This would massively speed up locating issues!

I'm unable to successfully open a project that loads correctly in Cbb. On trying to open the project, the last toast notification says "Project successfully opened" but the UI then freezes for a few minutes. It then detects the crash (with crash code 'Application Hang') & saves a crash dump file, so that's something. Noel can I send you the crash dump?

Hi to all who might have an interest in this thread. Just wanted to provide a quick update. The fundamental issue was specifically related to Plugin Load Balancing being enabled & I'm happy to share that Noel has found & resolved the issue & the fix will be in the next Sonar release! Cheers.

Hi Noel, Thank you for taking the time to respond. I've been testing in Cbb & Sonar. I've just seen your PM & I'll respond further there shortly. Thanks.

I've raised this issue in part in the feedback loop but no devs chimed in, so I'm hoping given the new forum that it might be more visible here! I've created the following support requests; Request #1738158 : Timing of MIDI events sent to plugins on busses is not correctly latency compensated Request #1734819 : Time sync info provided to plugins on busses is not latency compensated Request #1749864 : Timing of plugin automation events on busses is not correctly latency compensated These are very concise & include simple example projects that clearly demonstrate the problem. These bugs (present in latest Sonar & Cbb) cause large timing errors when using MIDI/song position sync/automation on busses. These all appear to be closely related so hopefully the required fix will be common to all too. As bugs go, to me this kind of bug is 2nd only to a bug causing the wrong notes to be played! Hope one of the dev team sees this and comments! Cheers

I tried using Make Instrument to convert fx+midi tracks, in a copy of the project. While this worked in creating Instrument tracks, the song position latency error remained. I also tried saving the synth presets, creating the Instrument tracks fresh (alongside the existing) & loading the synth preset, then moving the midi & fx (following the original synth across). This lead to the strange issues I mentioned in my last post. I thought I'd mention the failure cases, just so people can avoid them! but I've yet to try your more complete approach so maybe that'll work! Thanks

Sadly I have to take back my praises for Instrument tracks! I've just tried converting a slightly larger project (only 23 audio/midi tracks) by adding fresh instrument tracks & moving the midi & fx over. After converting just 7 instruments, everything went very wrong! My favorite example being that clicking an intrument track icon to open the vst plugin instrument, starting opening the wrong instruments! ? So I guess I'm back to hoping the original bug/issue can be fixed in a future release!

I tested with loop start/end exactly on bars & the drift was much larger than a few samples. So I'd be interested to see how Jamstix does!

Alas, not quite out of the woods yet! Some interesting additional notes; Converting an audio + midi track into an instrument track, does not solve the problem... Unless, I create a new instrument track routed to the same bus! Definitely something strange going on here! Creating a new instrument track via D&D from the plugin (/instrument) browser works as expected. Even when song position sync is working correctly. Playing a loop causes de-sync, which appears to be variable in nature! nb. this happens even when Latency delay isn't enabled.

Yep, just tested and all good! ? Haven't touched Instrument tracks or the Synth Rack for a long time, as previously had a lot of problems but looks like they're great now. Much relief ? Thanks again.

I have just tested the same situation with "Simple instrument" & "Instrument " tracks instead of the original seperate fx+midi tracks & the song position sync problem is avoided! ? Thanks David for highlighting this as a possible cause.

Thanks but I'm pretty sure you're just testing the PDC in your project, as none of these plugins has a sync based on the song position, which ShaperBox does. It is specifically the song position information being relayed to the plugin that doesnt appear latency corrected on the bus.

Also note, that when Latency Delay is set to 0, the issue still exists. (...should have set it 0 in the demo project!)

Here's what the ShaperBox oscilliscope looks like with & without the error.

Thanks for the recommendation. I had a quick read of the manual & while it looks really good for analysing audio performance, I can't see that it provides any view of time sync information from the host. Which appears to be the source of the problem.