dougalex

I know that is all good information.... and appreciated. I just had hoped someone could confirm that this particular project must be corrupted because, the exported mix does not match the relative volume of the two tracks being heard right before the export. i.e. I am not talking about the overall level, I am talking how one of tracks exports at a different level thereby changing the mix (the balance between tracks, not the overall level)

I understand you are in a different situation, but... For "regular users who generally always upgrade to latest version", the subscription makes total sense AND I believe actually costs less over time.

Yes, same result. 😐

BTW, first, thanks for downloading the project and checking it out! Please understand the troubleshooting here: Step 1] I purposely made "MATT" drastically low in volume and "DOUG" loud in the mix. Step 2] I "Export Entire mix" and check the Export results, which, surprisingly, NOW (in the Export) "MATT" is now louder than "DOUG" I created a fresh new project with those two wav files and Export was fine. So I think something is corrupted in that one project (the one uploaded)

The plot thickens: Keep in mind the situation: I like my mix so I export it, but in the export, several tracks are much lower than I just heard in mix (NOT talking about overall mix level, it is relative levels of instruments in the mix) Use of Aux track seems to be involved I am using an Aux track to combine a left/right keyboard tracks to one fader. When I set the keyboard track back to Master, as opposed to Aux track, the bizarre problem (Export mix not same as heard before export) goes away. Also keep in mind, when I bypass the Aux track on the keyboards, the problem not only goes away on the keyboard track, but the problem goes away on the other affected tracks, which are UNRELATED to the use of Aux track on keyboard tracks.

But this is more like a corruption on this project: I have been mixing on Sonar for 20+ years and the export always has same mix (balance EQ effects) as the mix I had right before export. (i.e. the whole point of the DAW's existence 😐)

If you tried to open the cwz file, the files are on you computer. The only trick is you have to tell Sonar where they are (and good to select "reference from current location"). I confirmed this by going to another computer, downloaded and opened the CWZ file, responded to Sonar prompt for location of wav files, and it opened fine.

I use my usual: Entire Mix, 48k, 24bit The strange thing is I tested a fresh new project with those same wav files and it was fine. But the project I need is the one with all my mix and fixes. If my project will not export the mix properly because it is corrupted, that would be a first for me after 20+ years of using Cakewalk/Sonar. The CWZ file I posted has all tracks deleted except for two just to make it straightforward to see/hear the problem.

Yes just FYI 1] I had turned down the Master after the problem started to better compare the mix at same volume as the export 2] cwz files should include audio so not sure why no audio

I have a Sonar file that the relative level of two tracks sound like a completely balance between the two tracks when comparing the playback mix to the exported mix. Can anyone at Cakewalk or other users check this short two track project and explain what is going on? In playback mix I made the lead synth fairly low and the other track (Piano with swooshy pad) louder. But after export it is opposite result, the lead synth is louder. Here is link to CWZ (Cakewalk zip file) on Google Drive https://drive.google.com/file/d/16mL6kCymb4La5226j-tKQ7YoJrCgDeV2/view?usp=sharing

I changed my experiment to: Take a whole stereo mix played live without click and convert it to constant tempo that matches average tempo. So far my experimental results are: 1] Using Melodyne stand-alone to detect and "flatten" the tempo, then export results to wav, got me what I wanted quickly, albeit with some artifacts (presumably because it is stretching as opposed to slicing) 2] The best sounding results (and most feeling like I was in control) was when, in Sonar, I manually split the material where it drifted off, then using stretch (Control+shift) on various length sections to align the whole song to a constant tempo. (No noticeable artifacts). Only in a few instances did I have to split a measure down into the single beats and align them, was mostly four bar phrases. In other words, at least in some situations, it is best just to "manually do" what "audio snap is intended to do automatically".

Yes, that, and making sure average tempo, and resolution are set.

My next experiment will be: I will record a second track of me tapping along to the playback 4/4 downbeats using something like a sidestick sample. Then try the transfer that track to the transient pool, and copy that to the target track. If works well, then would take a lot less time than adding, disabling, moving transients that were detected from the actual source material.

Spent a lot of time on trying to quantize a live played drum beat but Audio Snap transient detection is too often not really close enough to the transient. And sometimes the stretch is resulting in something sounding too crazy to really know how to get it adjusted. Trial and error trying to adjust the transients to fix those spots just makes it worse. My problems might be "user error".... so Maybe someone has some tips and tricks on Audio Snap? Or "common mistakes" list.

Ok I am following this to see the solution, too. If you do not find a better solution, copying one-at-time at least "works". And its quick, unless you need to do it on a lot of tracks. For what its worth here is Perplexity.ai answer: Here are the most efficient methods to copy multiple effects between tracks in Cakewalk Sonar: 1. Duplicate Track Method Use Tracks > Duplicate Track(s) or the Duplicate Track button (right-click to configure settings). Check Effects in the dialog box to clone all effects. After duplication, delete unwanted clips/events from the new track while retaining the copied effects chain. 2. Track Template Workflow Save the source track as a template via Right-click > Save as Track Template Insert the template into your project (Right-click > Insert Track From Template) Remove the template's audio/MIDI data while keeping the effects 3. Drag-and-Duplicate Shortcut While holding CTRL, drag effects individually between FX Racks. Though manual, this preserves settings and is faster than recreating each effect. For CPU Efficiency Route multiple tracks to a bus/aux track with effects instead of duplicating plugins. This centralizes processing and simplifies automation adjustments. Cross-Project Transfer Use File > Export > Cakewalk Interchange Format (CXF) to transfer tracks with effects between projects, though verify plugin compatibility between systems. Key Settings When using duplication/cloning, ensure Clone Effects is enabled in track duplication dialogs. For existing tracks, combine track templates with Copy Special/Paste Special for data transfer.

Hold control then click/drag any effect from any track effects bin to another track's effect bin. (albeit, you probably have to do one-by-one)

Ah yes, I see the confusion is: Project template vs track template I think the screenshot from the manual that you posted was about project templates, so I thought you were talking about project templates.

insert the template into an existing project? I think you open a template, not "insert the template into an existing project". Maybe I totally misunderstood what you are doing. Maybe you have to make a short video to fully demonstrate the issue.

As test, I saved a template with envelopes and then opened the template. Seems like I have the envelope data saved with template:

If the Template is not giving you want you expect, can you just save it as a regular project? (Then save as new name to avoid changing your basic reusable project)?

Summary from Perplexity.ai: To ensure your Automation data is included in templates: Draw or record automation envelopes explicitly in the tracks. Verify that all desired automation lanes are visible and properly configured before saving the project as a template. More: In Cakewalk Sonar, when you save a project as a template, automation data, including envelopes, can be transferred. However, there are some nuances: Automation Envelopes: Automation envelopes that are drawn with nodes (manually or through automation recording) are saved in the template. This includes volume, pan, and parameter changes for soft synths or effects. If the envelopes are not explicitly drawn or recorded (e.g., they exist only as remote control data or MIDI CC messages), they might not be saved as part of the template unless converted into visible automation lanes. Remote Data: Remote data (e.g., MIDI CC messages sent from external controllers) is not directly saved in the template unless it is recorded into a track or converted into automation envelopes. If you are using a controller like the Novation ReMOTE SL or similar, you would need to save its configuration separately as a MIDI remote template or SysEx dump, as described in guides for controllers24. Template Behavior: Templates save all project parameters and settings that are part of the project file, including automation envelopes with nodes. However, dynamic data like live controller input needs to be recorded or explicitly added as an envelope to persist in the template. Envelopes created with nodes (manually drawn or recorded) are saved in templates and projects, ensuring automation data is transferred. However, live remote data (e.g., MIDI CC messages) must be recorded into tracks or converted into visible automation envelopes for persistence in templates

Are you saying you saved a template and it did not save the Automation that you wanted to include in the template?

Maybe I am not understanding the question, but: Clip Automation: Only affects individual clips (Volume shows as red envelope in Audio clips, Velocity shows as violet in Midi clips) Track Automation: Affects all clips in track (and is AFTER any existing Clip Automation)

I have used Sonar for almost 25 years now. From time to time, I go on youtube and search for the old tutorials and tip and tricks on Sonar. I cannot believe how much I still learn because there are so many great features and work flow advances that already existed many years ago... and the features still work the same way in the newest version... so all of the old videos are as helpful today as they were many years ago. Just check out the depth of midi editing features in this fantastic tutorial (definitely not just for beginners!)

Thanks for the comments. I just started over and retried using the steps I distilled in my prior post, and I finally got that 8 bar synth phrase done very quickly. It seems that my problem was that I was using a time resolution for the threshold... the eighth-note resolution, which would seem logical. HOWEVER, I found that was what made impossible to get the expected results when fine tuning the threshold. It seems that "All" is the way to go, and the other time resolutions only work well if the original material was played very close to a constant tempo (e.g. played listening to a click). Overall, I am just trying to take the necessary baby steps, and learn this AudioSnap tool because, when I "have it down", I very curious to try and hear what it sounds like when used on a multitrack live recording that was NOT played to a click... i.e. find out what is really possible and practical. Thank you for your input!