Misha

Sure, that's why ~1/2 DAWs have subscription models aside from perpetual. But that (subscription) mainly has to do with number of plugins and content that is available to users. Cloud and all that bologna. I sincerely doubt that good % of people are just renting core program. Recently Ashwin offered a straw of hope, mentioning that number of plugins are being worked on and maybe they will squeeze perpetual licenses when they have some new bells and whistles ready. Hopefully, instability of global markets will turn some gears in BL world to come up with licenses sooner than later, while people still have some money to spend. Hill62, I am very interested how your tone would change if lets say price goes up to something that you are not comfortable with or something will change in the program itself that will completely make it unacceptable to you, or company exchanges hands and shuts brand down. What happens to your projects, time and money you had invested in renting?

Wookiee mentions Adobe, but not the other.... 95% of similar software., where at least, as rightfully mentioned you are able to keep last version that you paid for. Adobe Audition is about 2% of global DAW users. Same goes for Cakewalk/Sonar. - about 2%. That's what internets say. A median, "optimistic" guestimate, both combined - 5% of all DAW users. Some of us still have hope, that BL will hear users that refuse to rent....

What is not definite is the activation that is being held hostage. You would think that after the release of new product they would be confident enough to finally stop tethered activations (and collecting data) and permanently unlock outgoing product.

Read reply by Ashwin. It seems they are in the process of forging some things. While I have almost no use for stock plugins, my hope is the new "toys" will finally trigger a process of perpetual licenses, which is given as possible reason by Ashwin. I guess we shall see where this is all going in the next few months.

I will be satisfied with any of three scenarios. A) One time purchase - plugins or no plugins, makes no difference to me. B) Subscribe for a year - get the last version of the last moth into subscription unlocked permanently, no new features or fixes unless you re-subscribe. Again plugins or no plugins -no difference. C) Subscribe to Sonar for a year, get a permanent Cakewalk by Bandlab unlock - the one that is not spying on you or deactivates. That at least will give guarantee and peace of mind to musicians, that their projects will not be held hostage by company policy changes or their own financial situation.

Ashwin, Thank you for clarifying this for me and other users. I will gladly subscribe and support development IF Cakewalk by Bandlab will be permanently unlocked... At least for subscribers of Sonar, so their work is safe from potential SHTF scenario.

The root problem of automatic things like Vocal rider or Trackspacer is that is taking away the creative part of mixing. Only you, as artist know which parts should be louder or softer. Same goes for automation of creative plugins, reverb, delay, flanger, etc. As a quick fix, they work wonders, but once you spend 2-3 hours with automation, you will likely see things differently.

I don't know why people are so fascinated with TTS1. It's reliable... understood. But as far as sounds, it reminds me of an Atari video game. I think the only "ok" GM sounds out of the box were from something like Tyros or Roland hardware units. As far as I know, only Halion/Sonic is the last GM / Program change capable professional plugin that has extensive library to "substitute" sounds after it maps everything correctly. And a very inexpensive VSTsynthfont, that is surprisingly being maintained often. Sure, it would be convenient to have soldered in MIDI player in DAW, but definitely not a deal breaker. I am wondering (again, if what Ashwin said is true) if bakers are open to discuss what is on horizon on plugin front. Since plugins are complimentary to any DAW, I think user input might help shape their plans in a more favorable direction. P.S. Funny, user Bass Guitar mentioned Breverb. That is the last stock plugin that I use occasionally, as it has certain character.

Vocal rider was the first plugin I bought from Waves. It's a neat quick "slap on" plugin if you need just to level everything for a sketch. I ditched Waves for two reasons. First, when they announced that it will be subscription only service, even after they swiftly reverted their decision. Just don't have the trust in the company and secondly, I found their licensing protection too intrusive. I think Vocal rider falls into category of TrackSpacer, which serves a different purpose (auto EQ carving) but somewhat similar approach. Quick "fix". Salvatore, I believe gain automation in Cakewalk is the way to go. It is very intuitive and truth be told, one of several main reasons why for now I still use Cakewalk. P.S. Main challenge for me personally when mixing are frequency clashes. While I do have most of Izotope plugins, FabFilter is my To Go plugin set and had been for years. Their new Q4 is a state of the art EQ plugin. It makes life much easier. I don't believe that any EQ on the market comes remotely close in functions or design.

That's a good point. But I wonder... If Cakewalk>to new Sonar kept most of the old code, what about plugins that supposedly keeping licensing locked to current state? Could legacy plugins be re-faced and improved slightly in the same manner as new Sonar and sold / packaged as "new"? I haven't followed closely, but I think with exception of new sampler which you can kind of consider as a built in plugin, were there any other plugins released in the 1 year of making + 6 month of public release? I would imagine that it would be a havoc to release whole bunch of "new" stock plugins in one update, if such are in the works... I am just trying to predict timeline / progress expectation if what Ashwin said is true. It seems BL is developing Sonar aggressively, but unfortunately my math is not adding up as far as plugins go. I do agree that most current stock plugins are very usable, especially to potential new users.

Hmmm, I assuming you speak for yourself, right? I have so many plugins - many of which were part of the "bundles"... that doubt good part of them will be ever used. Taking VSTi out of equation, my "to -go" toolbox consists of about 2 dozen plugins. I can't imagine myself purchasing a DAW for dynamic or artistic FX. Certain tools, like chord/harmony explorers maybe, but definitely not FX. But even chord/harmony tools have very solid footing in the market... Scaler 3 is coming next month, there is a much lesser known, but extremely powerful software from Cognitone. My confusion mainly comes from these reasons for not supplying perpetual license: "it's own suite of unique features and plugins". You mentioned a few plugin brands, I will add FabFilter to that list - which are state of art plugins... I just find it very questionable that Bandlab can cook something up to challenge these in a way that would tip decision on purchasing a DAW. But lets imagine it's true, what kind /type of plugin(s) will move people toward spending money on a DAW? I am very curious.

Thankfully, Bandlab, allowed smooth transition for whatever future might hold by providing Cakewalk for free for now. I decided not to take chances and acquired & started to learn another DAW in parallel to current Cakewalk by BL. The other DAW has certain features that are not available in Cakewalk or new Sonar, so it will be an interesting journey and new experience. I've decided to wait one full year from time of Sonar release anouncement to see if anything changes until full scale migration. Trying to speed up decision, I followed advice from bakers and contacted Caldecott Music Group "marketing", to see if "they" can shed any light on the future of the subject (that is usually get blocked by moderators) since half a year passed since release announcement. I will try avoiding mentioning the subject in question directly, just quoting the reply I got. "Thanks for reaching out to us. We understand your concerns regarding Sonar's need for a perpetual license. As we're working in conjunction with BandLab to provide a better offering for BandLab Membership by having Sonar onboard, there are still possibilities for a potential one time license in the future as we fully developed Sonar and Next. We do understand the potential growth we can expect with Sonar moving forward with a license but we want to have it fully fleshed with it's own suite of unique features and plugins before proceeding. Cheers, Ashwin" In posting this, I simply want to understand if ^ is genuinely Caldecott's plan, how close they are to what users actually want? Here is what I mean. While there are some very usable Cakewalk / Sonar plugins from legacy software, I stopped using "stock" plugins about 12 years ago, as much better alternatives at very reasonable prices (or free) exist. Personally, potential amount, or quality of plugins Sonar might have will have zero impact on my decision on purchasing a DAW. I wonder what users think about this? Will any potentially included plugins be your decision maker in purchasing standard license? To moderator(s). Locking this thread will rob Caldecott group on vital slice of opinions, if what was said by Ashwin is true.

From what I know Dorico SE is free and it includes GM soundset for Sonic. It should be less than 20gb. Sonic is highly editable. And if you like it enough, full version of Halion goes on sale, I think twice a year for 1/2 off and then you can re-voice stock GM midi. As of today, this in my view is the best "current" solution for GM playback.

As I've mentioned in another thread, you can get a free Steinberg's Sonic 7 and GM sound set from free Dorico SE. It does GM/program changes. I have a full Halion which includes GM sounds, but I've talked to people recently who were able to get away with Steinberg's free offerings for GM playback.

Or get free Steinberg Sonic 7 and GM sound set. After Roland sound canvas va went bye bye last year, there are not too many good choices left for GM/program changes stuff. Halion/Sonic and VSTSynthFont are probably the last "better" ones.