Gary Shore

Interested in hearing about what processes people here use to edit MIDI tracks in terms of things like velocity/duration for a complete section (vs.single note editing).... Given the option of using the Event Inspector on the Control Bar,the MIDI FX plugins,the CAL scripts or the Event Filter,which do you prefer and why? (This would be for MIDI tracks where the PRV velocity process using selecting an area in the Time Ruler then being able to affect the velocity of a group of notes wouldn't really produce the intended results....)

Appreciate your continued feedback here man-will be posting here on the same subject as I get into working with this and it would be great to be able to keep "this line of communication" open..... BTW re-Melodyne markers focus-wonder if there's a workaround as it doesn't seem to allow for the same kind of Time Ruler markers we rely on in Cakewalk-been thinking of using the "Cycle"option(i.e.setting up loop/repeated section)which can be adjusted precisely to override whatever Time Grid settings you have and positioned to start where you might want to put a marker.... Tried using the Cakewalk Time Ruler to set up a marker to use in Melodyne but,like w/doing this kind of thing in the PRV and being able to see where you are postionwise in the PRV relative to the CbBL Time Ruler,depending on your Zoom levels it's not possible to sync the different transports visually.... As I'm doing a lot of the kind of note location editing that really depends on being able to identify and locate to a given spot re-overall syncing of elements in the mix(i.e.exactly where I want the snare or kick to hit)this is a priority so any ideas from people about this would be welcome.......

Hey Scook! Again much thx for all your help over here...continuing to find threads where invariably your replies are the ones I learn the most from.... Doing some fairly complicated editing w/Melodyne and am wondering about this rendering process in terms of- -whether this is something that should be done once after all the Melodyne processes you want to do are finished as repeated rendering processes "degrade the audio quality" or if it's something that I could use as part of an editing the rendered clip process where I might do a little work in Melodyne,render the clip,edit the wav,set up Region FX again,continue some more Melodyne work on it,etc etc...

Trying to figure out how to set up location markers like in Cakewalk where you can specify a location on the Time Ruler and create a marker instantly,wonder how to do this in Melodyne? Read some info in the Melodyne manual about the Start Time Tool but checking it out it seemed to only work w/Note Assignment Mode and this mode doesn't allow you to edit notes;switching back to edit mode the triangle marker below the Time Ruler disappears....?? Also,a more Cakewalk-specific question- I tried to edit a clip that had Region FX on it and saw right away that this didn't work like it does w/ a regular non-Region FX clip(tried the usual "highlight an area then delete it" technique).... Assuming you have to either render or bounce it back to a standard clip format again before this kind of thing will work.....appreciate any info about this as I was reading something online that seemed to suggest that "you can't do any editing to a clip once you've set up Region FX on it without removing it" or something...as if turning a clip into a Region FX clip automatically eliminates the possibility of any future standard clip editing...

Got you,know what these are,much thx for this info,will check into it....

Hey Promidi!!How you been?Thx for replying!Appreciate your help last year figuring out things relating to mono/stereo tracking... Not sure what you're referring to here re-Workspaces..is this a CWbBL setting in Preferences or something in my laptop settings(using Windows 10 Pro..)?

Got strange situation I could use some feedback about- Have some screensets in a project and despite the track views being different,the Console View off them all default to the same View re-which tracks are showing... Tried various things relating to the usual processes of locking/unlocking them/copying them to different locations etcetc..not sure WTF is going on but want to be able to set up a Console View off of a given Track arrangement and unable to do so currently..???

Thanks for taking the time to reply and for checking things out on your end...continuing to get a sense of what's what w/Melodyne and thinking I may have to adjust some stuff for the MIDI file to accurately translate the audio data...

Greetings all and much thx to everyone for all their help over here,no doubt many of you reading this are people who I've been in touch with by PM here as well and again,couldn't have gotten here without it... Want to take a sec to send my sincere wishes to everyone for good health as we all deal with the COVID-19 situation.... Posting as I spent the day trying to figure out how to get a MIDI file to play correctly in SI Bass and wasn't sure about some of the things I came up against...have a bunch of MIDI tutorials to check out as well as sections in the Reference Guide dealing with all the aspects of using MIDI but hoping people here familiar with this stuff might have some info they could post that will point me in the right direction.... What I need to do is have the SI Bass interpret the MIDI file data correctly in terms of Note on/off,velocity etc... Currently,the file is playing back without the note separations,each note is sustained to the next... I can see this in the PRV and could take the time to manually edit everything but....even doing that the SI Bass isn't reflecting the note velocity,attack/decay etcetc... This is a MIDI file made in Melodyne from an audio file which plays back 100% correct in Melodyne in terms of this stuff;according to the Melodyne manual the MIDI file is a completely accurate representation of the data.... Checked the Event List,see everything is checked in the Event Manager dialog... Completely new to the advanced aspects of working with MIDI files in Cakewalk and just finding out about things like the "MIDI prepare buffer" settings in Preferences and their effect on things etcetc.... ?????? As always,any/all replies greatly appreciated....

Greetings all and much thx to everyone for all their help over here,no doubt many of you reading this are people who I've been in touch with by PM here as well and again,couldn't have gotten here without it... Want to take a sec to send my sincere wishes to everyone for good health as we all deal with the COVID-19 situation.... Posting as I spent the day trying to figure out how to get a MIDI file to play correctly in SI Bass and wasn't sure about some of the things I came up against...have a bunch of MIDI tutorials to check out as well as sections in the Reference Guide dealing with all the aspects of using MIDI but hoping people here familiar with this stuff might have some info they could post that will point me in the right direction.... What I need to do is have the SI Bass interpret the MIDI file data correctly in terms of Note on/off,velocity etc... Currently,the file is playing back without the note separations,each note is sustained to the next... I can see this in the PRV and could take the time to manually edit everything but....even doing that the SI Bass isn't reflecting the note velocity,attack/decay etcetc... This is a MIDI file made in Melodyne from an audio file which plays back 100% correct in Melodyne in terms of this stuff;according to the Melodyne manual the MIDI file is a completely accurate representation of the data.... Checked the Event List,see everything is checked in the Event Manager dialog... Completely new to the advanced aspects of working with MIDI files in Cakewalk and just finding out about things like the "MIDI prepare buffer" settings in Preferences and their effect on things etcetc.... ?????? As always,any/all replies greatly appreciated....

Man I am SO GLAD you posted this Scook!!Had the same problem trying to get the SI EP to play a MIDI file,was messing around with stuff trying to figure out WTF was going on,decided to check online,found this,did what you suggested and VOILA!! plays the MIDI file..made my day...

David- Thx man for continuing to be involved here,just the fact that people like yourself,scook,jim fogle,kurre and msmcleod are in the loop gives me a better sense of being able to get this resolved,moving past the technical DAW/laptop stuff and back to the musical focus.... In terms of what you're asking re-the part of your PM from last week about this- "So... if it's not working to convert a long audio clip that never had Melodyne enabled on it as a region FX before the expiration (i.e. it's been re-imported or bounced), I think you are on the right track to split it, but you should also 'Bounce to Clip' each piece individually to discard the part of the audio that's just been hidden by slip-editing in case Melodyne is not handling that properly.' Actually the original bass track slip-edited clips were bounced initially to make one long clip;as a result the slip-editing had already been replaced prior to my thinking that,based on the results I was seeing, possibly the 7 min.clip was a problem for the audio-MIDI conversion given the current expired version of Melodyne set-up in place and that maybe shorter clips made from the new one dragged to the MIDI track would work...this was tried repeatedly without any success... Based on what happened today as described in my previous thread where the dysfunction tied to this progressed from just the DAW itself to the laptop,very apprehensive now about doing anything else before getting some kind of definite sense of WTF is actually going on..sent a PM to Noel Borthwick and waiting to see what his take on things is.... As always,your input in particular is of great interest,know you have a great understanding of everything imaginable w/the DAW....

I just tried setting up a new copy of the project and initially thought I'd fixed things...as posted above it's a long file(7 + min.)and since I saw the "Initializing Regions/Analyzing Audio/Mixing Down Audio"succession of events taking place continually at a rapid pace,I was thinking "this is normal given the length of the clip" and waited to see "Saving Project" appear... However after a few minutes things stopped,and I got a "Crash Dump" message.... Tried it again,this time my laptop shut down and I had to reset the power itself to get it to turn on..... Really not sure what's going on and any continued help/feedback would be greatly appreciated.....

I posted this last week over in the Q + A section,just realized this would also be a good forum to post it in as well... Been getting some good advice/feedback but still haven't sorted things out,could use additional advice.....

I spent some time checking all the locations on my laptop where I had Melodyne installed and am wondering if the type of things I've been experiencing might be due to my not having understood the initial installation processes and consequently having one version(4.1.11 /VST3/ 64 bit /In 2 Out 2)actually installed in the DAW while also having both the 32 and 64 bit versions of the suggested update(4.2.4.001)installed on my laptop as standalone apps independent from the DAW.... (I installed these according to the screen that came up when I used Melodyne initially after the BandLab Assistant add-on installation process under the impression that the version in the DAW would automatically be updated..) Thinking this might be the case,and after checking out some online info about it and finding that having both 32 and 64-bit versions of the same plug-in installed could potentially lead to problems,I uninstalled the 32-bit version,however I hesitated to uninstall the 64-bit as info I saw when the Control Panel screen came up showed both> -the version in the DAW instead of the update -as well as the Melodyne Runtime,suggesting this was connected to the version in the DAW itself. After uninstalling the 32-bit version of the update,I repeated the drag- to-MIDI track process to see if that had fixed things,but got the same result.. I'm thinking this might be due to the project being connected to the OS 's previous status and when the DAW goes to activate Melodyne it can't figure out which of the versions to go through or something like this..will try setting up a new copy of the project to see if this might be the case a little later on... Figured I'd review all the info I have about where things are on the laptop as I'm fairly new to using one as well as the DAW itself and still familiarizing myself with various locations where things are installed/stored..want to get a clear definite understanding of this so I could provide it if needed ...

Just opened Melodyne in the original project I used it in(another project from a month or 2 back when it was just installed)... Saw the algorithm is in fact set to Melodic from the default dropdown although the initial screen shows everything greyed out....

Appreciate this info,going to look into things again at some point today and will post the results once I do...

Much thx to you guys for posting above- Haven't opened Melodyne itself at all since getting the email back from Celemony support(see above earlier thread from a couple days ago)as I've been assuming that it's' just the ARA aspect of having it installed that's still operative(re-Marks' take on things) and anything else relating to specific settings as Scook referred to aren't...interested in seeing what Noel has to say once he gets a chance to look things over..... I'm focused on resolving things here ASAP instead of having to deal with the technical aspects of the audio-MIDI conversion in the DAW as the tracks are just about ready to mix/master and want to get into the bass replacement,to that end I've been checking out versions of Melodyne online to get and install if anything I try as suggested here ultimately continues producing the same dysfunctional results......

Here's an update on what happened yesterday when I got into working with these processes - First off let me preface this by including that the track itself is a long one (7 + min)... Wanting to make sure that I kept the original project intact,I set up a couple of copies,one to experiment with the ASP processes described in the previous post above and one to see if msmcleods' approach would work,dragging the clip to a MIDI track... Although I was able to create a MIDI clip using the ASP approach,adjusting both the velocity settings in the ASP dialogue box as well as using Process-Length as indicated in the Reference Guide,since the ASP works on transients and the process of converting audio>MIDI using ASP is described as being for percussion tracks,I found the resulting MIDI track would require a lot of PRV processes to sound anything like the bass line audio did,especially in terms of note lengths..Having done a lot of work on the bass line already,I decided to rule this option out .... Moving to the second option,I bounced the duplicated track,set up the MIDI track,and drag/copied (as well as drag/moved to see if that would work)the audio to the MIDI track... Each time I tried this,the result was- Initially the "Initializing Regions/Analyzing Audio/Mixing Down Audio"succession of events (paralleling the "Bounce to Clips" processes I'm familiar with and have done without any problem,something that takes either a second or a little longer depending the clips' length)started off as I'd expect,but after a couple of minutes started "hanging up",usually on "Analyzing Audio"...the line would go about halfway in the box on the Now Time display then stop,and the blue spinning line would continue without any further processes... More importantly,I had to go into the taskbar Cakewalk icon right-click menu to close the program each time,and got the "Not Responding"/"Wait while Windows reports the problem to Microsoft" dialogue..the kind of thing I don't want to mess with using the DAW.... As well,some of these attempts led to crash dumps being created..... A short segment of the full-length clip worked however,although the ensuing process suggested to me things weren't working as they were supposed to....Took a long time,saw the clip selection show Melodyne in the name for an instant,and things were blinking on and off on the other tracks like the Mute button,the FX bin...Unlike the usual way things work in the DAW,I had the impression I was watching a Twilight Zone episode where one of those huge old early 60's computers suddenly malfunctions,sending out a long paper data sheet and emitting smoke while everything goes haywire.... I worked with the resulting short clip for a while,then decided to try another short clip from a different section which had a more developed bass line melodically to see what the results using the MIDI options would be... However,although I set up a new copy of the project to do this,the only result now was "Track not responding"followed by a repeat of the above described closing down the DAW processes using the taskbar... So as someone who is still getting used to doing things "in the box",musically focused instead of being a tech wizard,and easily rattled by the sense of things not working as they're supposed to....you can imagine where I'm at,with tracks that are just about ready for the mixing/mastering stage except for this situation with the bass tracks..... Spent some time investigating all the various locations on both my laptop itself as well in the Plug-In manager where Melodyne is installed...and made sure to delete both the copied project version that had led to the unwanted phenomena described here as well as the Melodyne folders connected to it from my C-drive Downloads each time,thinking this might lead to some better results...however....???? Wondering about uninstalling then reinstalling the expired trial version using BL assistant for the ARA function re-msmcleods' thread above...

Hey Mark!! Thanks again for continuing to reply here... Yes I installed it along w/the SI Instruments/Drum Replacer from BL Assistant... Based on what you're telling me above as well as what I described as the results of my initial processes,I'm thinking my mistake was in setting up the Region-FX on the clip as an intermediate step between dragging it to the MIDI track... What you're saying if I understand you correctly is that,although the trial version has expired and the info from Celemony is correct in that the Region-FX process is similarly unavailable,the ARA function is still operating within the DAW based on the special license you're referring to... I appreciate the info as well about the MAutoPitch plug-in,however I've been looking at the V-Vocal Region-FX option and thinking this would work just a well.... Not entirely sure yet about the workflow involved as it seems from my initial looking over the Reference Guide info that the V-Vocal processes have to be done on the audio waveform itself prior to MIDI conversion... Still studying this as I got some info over on one of the FB groups about using the ASP Audio>MIDI processes and prior to your reply had been considering doing this,then using the PRV to set up the actual bass line pitches.... Since it's a fairly simple repeated pattern with some variations that could easily be done this way,along with the V-Vocal pitch correction, I was thinking I'd be able to have an effective workaround in place to effectuate what I had initially been trying to get going with Melodyne the other day as described in the initial thread.... However if easily producing the MIDI track off the audio can be done as you describe,this would be a much better option and I'm going to look into this later on today along with continuing to study the V-Vocal info.... Any continued feedback about this would be something I'd be very interested in...

Appreciate the continued info... When you say you can edit the auto scan note by note,does this allow for the type of pitch center adjustment(not by semitones but by cents)that Melodyne does?

No decision yet,and this info is exactly what I'm looking for man thx for posting it and continuing to reply..BTW does this plug-in do any of the other Melodyne stuff or is it solely for audio-MIDI conversion?

Mark- Really appreciate your taking the time to post here..have been learning a lot from all your thread posts here in Cakewalk Discuss... This was what I assumed as well,however,here's the email reply I got yesterday from Celemony support after checking with them to see if after the trial period expiration the Player version still operates within the DAW with limited functionality....., From: "Celemony support / J&ouml;rg H&uuml;ttner" <support@celemony.com> Date: 3/18/20 6:30 pm To: "gary@garyshorecomposermusician.com" <gary@garyshorecomposermusician.com> Dear Gary, Indeed only a 30 days trial can be used for the period of the trial - so 30 days. Once the trial expires it can be used to play back any edits done previously with the trial, but no edits can be done anymore whatsoever (hence the product shows up as “Melodyne player”). Also audio-to-midi is not operational anymore. Best wishes, Jörg Hüttner Finding out it doesn't,although I was able to use it to set up a MIDI track, I think the results as described above in my initial thread posting- -no MIDI data on track -SI Bass producing sine wave instead of pitches/rhythmic pattern -as well as something else I didn't understand that happened when I duplicated the bass track to set up a Region FX clip-the other 3 bass tracks,although not selected,still were affected by the selected clip and had Region FX applied.. -along with both a long wait period for a very short clip to convert to MIDI while the blue spinning line continued and it appeared as if the conversion process was affecting all the tracks to some extent,looked like the FX bins were going on and off etcetc..new to this and was unsure about what I was seeing... but having gotten used to what goes on when bouncing to clips my sense was that things weren't working correctly... -suggest that,even if it is usable to some extent ,it still isn't doing what it's supposed to(thus the Celemony info) and being new to all this,rather than messing around with stuff I don't understand instead of getting to work on figuring out which of the available bass replacement options sound best for these tracks,I've decided to get a replacement version of Melodyne and focus on uninstalling the expired version and setting up the new one to work seamlessly within Region FX... However,if I'm incorrect and the support email is also misleading(in other words,it works to some extent but doesn't create the midi data on the track the Region FX Melodyne clip is dragged to),I'd appreciate your continued feedback here along with anyone else who's inclined to weigh in... Again as I stated in the previous post,my focus is on the bass replacement processes themselves and not continuing to have to deal with any DAW-specific technical stuff past the point of setting things up to work as they're supposed to....

To what extent are you able to use it within the DAW itself like Region FX /Melodyne set-up? After checking out a bunch of options,I realized many would possibly not be compatible w/CbBL and might require getting into having to export the audio wav,convert it to MIDI then re-import it etc..not sure how all this would work and what other factors might be involved such as bit depth and other various technical stuff I'm still getting a handle on... My focus here is having a set-up in place that allows for the DAW audio-MIDI/pitch adjustment approach to be as instantaneous/low-stress as possible(as I had been expecting the Melodyne/Region FX techniques I'd be studying in the tutorials to be...) I've been working on the bass parts for these tracks for a while,tried various ways of processing the audio track to get the results I was after and ultimately decided to go the way of bass replacement...took a look at the options,liked many of the different settings and was looking forward to getting into trying out different bass sounds in the context of the track,so yesterday's' experiences threw me...where I'd been ready to get started checking this stuff out and figuring out an empowered approach to things I'm new to,instead I found myself spending hours trying to figure out what was going on,emailing Celemony support,finding out the version had expired,then posting this thread here and on the FB Cakewalk groups as well... After a while of continuing to react to this stuff,my decision was to go online and look around for a version of Melodyne to replace the expired one..think I've found one(Studio 4 VST delivered through the Cloud at a very affordable price),and so I think my focus will be on being able to uninstall the expired version and set this new one up in its place to work seamlessly as part of the standard Region FX processes.....

Just found out that,unlike what I had been mistakenly assuming,when the 30-day trial version of Melodyne Player expires,it doesn't become the Essentials version...see it's there when I went to Region FX and tried to use it to convert a bass audio clip to MIDI but,as I'm new to both using Melodyne as well as doing this,wasn't sure if the fact that the resulting straight line on the MIDI track instead of MIDI data when I dragged/copied the Melodyne audio clip there was due to the version having expired or my own unfamiliarity with how to do things... Was able to play the clip through the TTS-1 but using SI Bass only got a "sine wave".... Saw the audio waveform in the Melodyne Editor but wasn't able to lasso select or get things to work...having spent the day familiarizing myself with how to use the Essentials version by studying some YouTube tutorials,I wasn't sure how to go about things.... Have a bunch of tracks I was planning on using the various MIDI/VST options available in Cakewalk to replace the audio bass track with(TTS-1/SI Bass/SI Strings Bass)but not sure what's up with all this and could use some feedback here... I posted this thread a while back about this same subject and was operating under the impression that using the info I received then would be how I'd go about doing things...guess things have changed since then w/various updates versions of CbBL having happened...... .As I'm completely new to this stuff,I'd welcome any info about other (preferably free)plug-in options for doing the audio-midi conversion as well as something that would be able to do pitch correction if possible (as I had been thinking Essentials would....) As always,much thanks to everyone here who's taken the time to reply to my previous threads and get me on the right track with the DAW....