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Jesse Jost

Still using SONAR?

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9 hours ago, Steev said:

 I actually rolled back my SPLAT workstation DAW to Win 7 Ultimate at 1st because my 10 year old Edirol PCR 500 MIDI keyboard controller was no longer supported.

 

 

There is a way to get the PCR series MIDI controllers working in Windows 10.  All you have to do is edit an INF file from the Windows 8 driver.  Enable signed driver installations.  Then do a manual installation instead on the driver's setup exe.

I have done all this and I now have my PCR-800 working in a fully patched Window 10 64bit machine.

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1 hour ago, Promidi said:

All you have to do is edit an INF file from the Windows 8 driver. 

Perhaps you could post the recipe in a separate thread for your fellow PCR Series users to enjoy.

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10 hours ago, Steev said:

some 15 year old 3rd world nation to take over your computer and maybe, just maybe start recording from your DAW adding Rap lyrics to all your favorite song projects and posting them on YouTube with some really lude porno with Taylor Swift's head Photoshopped onto some kind of monkey or hairless cat or something, and she'll get mad at you, and you'll spend all your time and energy apologizing to Taylor Swift trying to convince her it's all Microsoft's fault, and won't even notice that the 15 year old from the 3rd world nation used your credit card to buy himself a new Windows 10, or God forbid, a new Mac Pro. 😫 Ya know, the computer that looks like a trash can, but costs as much as a new Toyota? Then you'll be sorry you didn't upgrade to Windows 10 I'll bet ya.

The return of Steev!

Yes, it's amazing what people imagine might happen if they switch to Windows 10. No, you were imagining what would happen if they don't! Yikes, it's hard to keep track.

As you may remember, I made the leap oh, what was it, 6, 9 months ago on my main system? I'm in favor because I know that Microsoft's and BandLab's engineers work together to improve the audio underpinnings, and BandLab doesn't do in-depth testing on 7, as noted earlier.

I'm not as gung-ho about it as you are, though, Steev. For starters, I am one of the many, many people who experienced rice krispies after the 1903 update and had to wait (not long) for the hotfix. So it's not the impregnable technological marvel some make it out to be. Another thing is I don't like the sharp corners on the windows with no way to change it in Themes. So the basic look is affected. I stare at it a lot, and it's not a small thing.

I run trailing edge hardware. With most of it, I've been pleasantly surprised at how well Windows 10 supports it, in some cases things I had left for dead in Windows 7 are now usable again such as my Canon scanner. Other things, maybe not so well, but their time had come. If those things were expensive, I might have had reason to put off the switch.

Another example, a subject upon which we shall ever differ: if you had a child on the way you might name them Windows Defender, while I figured out a way to turn Windows Defender's realtime scanning off permanently, even on my systems that are running the Home Edition. I shall welcome my new Taylor Swift-head monkey pr0n overlords when the time comes and hope that Ms. Swift shows mercy.

In my opinion an anti-malware program whose realtime scanning function can't be permanently disabled via a front-facing UI is itself as bad as being infected with malware, especially on a computer that is doing DAW and NLE work where it's running every plug-in and audio and video file that streams from the disk through its engine to make sure it's not infected. But since I *****-slapped realtime scanning, Windows 10 and I have gotten along just fine.

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6 hours ago, Promidi said:

There is a way to get the PCR series MIDI controllers working in Windows 10.  All you have to do is edit an INF file from the Windows 8 driver.  Enable signed driver installations.  Then do a manual installation instead on the driver's setup exe.

I have done all this and I now have my PCR-800 working in a fully patched Window 10 64bit machine.

Yes I do understand this and have tried several hacks to make the PCR drivers work thru USB port, and it did indeed work, but not efficiently and bottlenecked the flow of MIDI data traffic causing unacceptable latency somewhere around an unpredictable and unstable 4-8 msec. Which is hardly noticeable with the flow of audio data or listening to playback of a pre recorded MIDI track, but really a buzz kill while trying to perform a keyboard performance in real time.

 However, the PCR 500 still works just fine thru it's 5 pin dyn MIDI interface which bypasses the USB drivers, and using the USB port plugged into a wall-wart power supply, and ALSO using and storing MIDI maps in Cakewalk ACT instead of the PCR's "Editor/Librarian" solves all latency issues.

 While it's true that the much newer tech Novation Impulse is heads and tails far superior in so many ways over the PCR but one.. The Impulse supports separate standard wheel controllers for pitch bend and modulation, and  I do NOT want to live without the PCR's single joystick controller for mixing my PB&M. 😍

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3 minutes ago, Steev said:

 but really a buzz kill while trying to perform a keyboard performance in real time...

I only have a 4th gen i5 CPU. Even with that, I have never really noticed any lag while playing a VSTi in real time.... even with extensive pitch bends and modulations from the lever...   The response from PCR-800 key press to sound from VSTi is pretty much instant - even with a CPU heavy VSTi like Chromophone 2 or Meldas MsoudFactory....    

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Posted (edited)

always good to let major new versions - whether OS or app - "settle in" imo, unless of course you're into helping iron out the early bugs... and of course staying a little behind keeps the costs lower ;)

Edited by pwalpwal
more text added
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Posted (edited)

@Promidi yeah, it's strange, if I remember correctly the PCR worked fine on my Intel i7 laptop right out of jump street when I upgraded it from v7 to v10 even without a hack, but was a total bust on my main whip AMD FX8370.

 It also never skipped  a beat on my i5 iMac thru 3 OS-X upgrades currently running the latest release version of High Sierra v13.xx.xx. Apple won't even allow me to upgrade my aging mid 2012 iMac to the latest OS-X Mohave  v14.xx.xx, but that's OK it's still running the latest current version of Pro Tools, and only use it to mix in Pro Tools for pro collabs and teach ProTools to those who feel the urge to enter the world of professionalism.

 So at any rate, being Pro Tools basically rarely to never changes, my old Mac simply doesn't need to be upgraded until it drops dead of old age, and that could very well mean it could out live me, LoL..

 

Ever notice that after Windows 10 settles  in to updates it becomes MUCH faster and smoother running? I certainly have..

My AMD FX8370 boots up to Win 10 on a 500 gig WD solid state HD in less then 5 sec (after BIOS loads)

Edited by Steev

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1 hour ago, Steev said:

Ever notice that after Windows 10 settles  in to updates it becomes MUCH faster and smoother running? I certainly have..

My AMD FX8370 boots up to Win 10 on a 500 gig WD solid state HD in less then 5 sec (after BIOS loads)

I have to say, I've noticed this too....  after a milestone update....Windows 10 just seems that much snappier.  I don't think it was placebo either.  Others reported a similar improvement in response.

A 5 second boot (post BIOS load) is awesome isn't it?   Same thing happened to me when I updated the Windows drive to a Samsung SSD, changed to UEFI BIOS, did a 4 K alignment on the disk and converted the disk to GPT

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6 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

The return of Steev!

Yes, it's amazing what people imagine might happen if they switch to Windows 10. No, you were imagining what would happen if they don't! Yikes, it's hard to keep track.

As you may remember, I made the leap oh, what was it, 6, 9 months ago on my main system? I'm in favor because I know that Microsoft's and BandLab's engineers work together to improve the audio underpinnings, and BandLab doesn't do in-depth testing on 7, as noted earlier.

I'm not as gung-ho about it as you are, though, Steev. For starters, I am one of the many, many people who experienced rice krispies after the 1903 update and had to wait (not long) for the hotfix. So it's not the impregnable technological marvel some make it out to be. Another thing is I don't like the sharp corners on the windows with no way to change it in Themes. So the basic look is affected. I stare at it a lot, and it's not a small thing.

I run trailing edge hardware. With most of it, I've been pleasantly surprised at how well Windows 10 supports it, in some cases things I had left for dead in Windows 7 are now usable again such as my Canon scanner. Other things, maybe not so well, but their time had come. If those things were expensive, I might have had reason to put off the switch.

Another example, a subject upon which we shall ever differ: if you had a child on the way you might name them Windows Defender, while I figured out a way to turn Windows Defender's realtime scanning off permanently, even on my systems that are running the Home Edition. I shall welcome my new Taylor Swift-head monkey pr0n overlords when the time comes and hope that Ms. Swift shows mercy.

In my opinion an anti-malware program whose realtime scanning function can't be permanently disabled via a front-facing UI is itself as bad as being infected with malware, especially on a computer that is doing DAW and NLE work where it's running every plug-in and audio and video file that streams from the disk through its engine to make sure it's not infected. But since I *****-slapped realtime scanning, Windows 10 and I have gotten along just fine.

Ah yeah, I'll stay around until someone insists on turning our technical "discussions" focused on finding solutions into political "debates" which are never anything more then continuous "arguments" with no "solutions" in sight.

 No sense in me trying to hang around at that point because once we go that far off topic my sense of humor is guaranteed to do nothing but get me in trouble AGAIN with our illustrious forum moderators..

 

And yeah there is no question that computer system death is in sight when you fall too far behind stop updating, maintaining, AND protecting your system IF YOU DON'T.

My favorite work around solution for 90% of those tasks is to schedule a specific time for Windows Security to do it's thing(s) when I know I'm not going to be working on my computer. My favorite scheduled time is Wednesday nights when I'm sleeping, just one day after Microsoft's infamous "Patch Tuesday", and I never get bogged down wondering why my Internet connection and computer is slowing down because of too many Windows services and processes are running in the background gobbling up computer resources that I want to use and do MY THING with. 

 And BTW, you can soften up the harshness of the appearance of Windows 10 by choosing color schemes more suitable and easier on the eye, and switching to Dark Mode. I do find the default BRIGHT BLUE really offensive and alarming myself, and so I changed it to a dark gray color, and SAVED the color change scheme in my Microsoft User Account Profile, so it stays that way across ALL my Windows computers desktops ALL LOOK THE SAME and NONE OF THEM default back to that ugly and offensive in my face.

Hint, choose ONE default color scheme for all Windows computers or you'll confuse and goober up Windows telemetry.. Which contrary to conspiracy theorists unfounded beliefs, ISN'T SPYING ON YOU TO MANIPULATE YOU. It's simply collecting info to make things easier and better for you based on how you work, your habits and how you use your computer and how you want it to look, recording and remembering and applying these changes YOU MAKE, and never EVER shares this information with ANYONE. Not even the police or Homeland Security without a court ordered warrant, specifically detailing PROOF that you have been and willfully intend to continue to be undoubtedly A VERY NAUGHTY & DANGEROUS THREAT.

Microsoft's security and integrity of protecting your privacy is second only to Apple's.

 However, neither can fully protect us from ourselves, and the stupid boneheaded decisions we make.. And Oh YES WILL! That's simply part of the "Human Condition" that can never be fully controlled.

 Why?? Because............…. Humans are the ONLY species on Earth who can absolutely KNOW something to be true, and still adamantly deny, and refuse not to accept it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Promidi said:

I have to say, I've noticed this too....  after a milestone update....Windows 10 just seems that much snappier.  I don't think it was placebo either.  Others reported a similar improvement in response.

A 5 second boot (post BIOS load) is awesome isn't it?   Same thing happened to me when I updated the Windows drive to a Samsung SSD, changed to UEFI BIOS, did a 4 K alignment on the disk and converted the disk to GPT

I've been kind of dragging my on switching over to UEFI BIOS weighing the pros and cons of the benefits. Considering the UEFI BIOS is stored in it's own partition on the hard drive itself does make it safer against exploits that can be embedded in a legacy BIOS on one hand, but on the other hand you can no longer boot your system remotely from another computer on your network, or from a USB or optical drive.

 And that can be highly problematic in situations where the boot records or OS itself becomes corrupted or physical SSD failure.

 And what makes matters worse in that respect, SSD's being silent, typically don't give any tell tale signs of failure like the strange/different noises and sounds magnetic hard drives make right before they are about to blow, LoL.

 I only had one Samsung Evo SSD fail. Everything seemed perfectly fine until I shut down my computer one night, and it wouldn't boot up the next morning.

 Of course that could happen with any vendor's SSD and I don't mean to imply the Evo wasn't an excellent SSD. But I need to warn you that Samsung's support flat out sucks because after 3 attempts at contacting them over the course of 3 weeks they never even bothered to get back to me with anything more then the standard automated "We're sorry for your inconvenience, blah, blah, blah" email.

 Anyway as a result, I purchased a Western Digital SSD, primarily because Newegg offered a great deal on a "Flash Sale" 500 GB for $80 which was AMAZINGLY cheap for an SSD 2 years ago, so I jumped on it and waited for Samsung to get back to me to fulfill their warrantee. And ummm,, ahh, I'm still waiting.. I'm obviously not holding my breath, but I'm still waiting.. And kinda having fun talk'in smack about their support staff..

Edited by Steev

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The only time I use SONAR is to view 2 project versions simultaneously on 2 different monitors to compare settings, levels etc. - SONAR on the left, Cakewalk on the right.   Pretty handy, but I have to remember never to save the version open in SONAR of I may lose some of the new bells and whistles.

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29 minutes ago, BRainbow said:

 but I have to remember never to save the version open in SONAR of I may lose some of the new bells and whistles.

You could always force Sonar (but obviously not Cakewalk by Bandlab) to go in to Demo mode to disable save.....

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On 8/30/2019 at 5:03 AM, Promidi said:

I only have a 4th gen i5 CPU. Even with that, I have never really noticed any lag while playing a VSTi in real time.... even with extensive pitch bends and modulations from the lever...   The response from PCR-800 key press to sound from VSTi is pretty much instant - even with a CPU heavy VSTi like Chromophone 2 or Meldas MsoudFactory....    

@ Bolded.  VSTis are mostly CPU-limited due to the effects - if you don't use them, they use less CPU.  This is expected

 Aside from that, VSTis and Samplers are always I/O and/or RAM limited (if you have caching enabled).  By default, most use disk streaming... and HDDs are completely  out of viability for decently sized projects due to the awful latency and low bandwidth.  You'll run into issues because of this.

1TB SATA3 TLC SATA3 SSDs cost $100, these days.  There is no point to even bother with a HDDs, especially if it's only a single 1-2TB HDD (which, honestly, isn't "cheaper enough" to bother getting instead of an SSD), as the price differential is just not there.  Most high capacity HDDs being sold are 5,400 RPM, as well, and the 7,200 RPM drives at 2-4TB will cost as much or more than a 1TB SSD... and they're still not going to deliver unless your projects are fairly simple.

Additionally, data at the back of a mechanical drive is slower to access than the data at the front, and latency is a big deal for audio workflows when you're dealing with sampled instruments, because HDD Read/Write speeds are rated for Sequential Read/Writes and this is not what happens when they are used for this in a DAW.

SSDs have, practically, no seek times, and you can often perform 3-5 parallel file operations on an SSD at faster speeds than one sequential operation on a single HDD.

Pressing keys on a keyboard to play notes is not, at all, a practical test to see how viable a HDD is; and if your projects tend to be on the simpler side... it probably won't matter anyways.  If you don't use many VSTis in your project, then you're unlikely to run into problems with those you do use on that old CPU, anyways.  You're only going to have issues when you use some effect plug-ins that are particularly CPU-intensive (i.e. iZotope RX, etc.).

Things change when you have a 60+ Track Orchestral Project playing multiple instruments and different articulations, etc. concurrently.

HDDs don't make economic sense in a market full of $100 1TB SATA3 HDDs with high endurance ratings.  They are more useful for Game Storage, Backup, and in Gaming Consoles - unless RAIDed.  That's an option, but I'm not sure many want to deal with it, especially those using laptops (as it's simply not a portable solution).

If you have TONS of high quality samples, you can probably affort to buy a 2-4TB SSD, anyways. 2TB Samsung QLC SSDs are pretty cheap, and have like 1,440TBW endurance rating.

Also, with current pricing, I recommend a 500GB NVMe system drive, not 250GB.  500GB now costs as much as 250 did a year or so ago... and it's a PITA to upgrade the capacity of an NVMe drive because most enclosures don't expose the drive vendor (so vendor supplied cloning software will not work ).  Also, the enclosures cost 2-3x as much as the SATA3 enclosures.

So get the 500GB (which also includes a higher Endurance rating, for longevity) at the start, so you never have to worry about it again.

In some cases, it may make sense to put your OS and Apps on SATA3 (which is more than fast enough for that stuff) and put your Sample/Sound data on the NVMe.

If your HDD has 2 NVMe slots, read the manual.  Sometimes using the second slot can cause your discrete GPU to run at half speed.  In that case, it's best left empty (particularly if you game on that machine, or also  use other creative software that depends on GPU performance - NLEs, Photography software, etc.).

Edited by SomeGuy
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I'm using Cakwalk by Bandlab, had Cakewalk Sonar Platinum for quite sometime because I found it the most intuitive DAW out there for me personally.  I like Adobe Audition interface as well, but not having MIDI support is what keeps me from using Audition.  Keep up great work with this program because it has all the wonderful features as before and it seems to be only getting better.

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Color me surprised at how far Cakewalk has come ( even since SPlat )

Last night I was opening up many of my Older  Cakewalk & SONAR projects from my HS 2 , SONAR 5 SE and  6 PE days .

(Win XP  from 2005  onward) .

I did this using a Win 10 64 17 inch lap top w modest specs

Everything I have ever done from that era not only opened up , they were all in a  far more usable state since my pre BandLab Cakewalk Day's ,

Meaning ,  I found that projects I had left on the shelf for years may finally stand a shot at seeing the light of day due to me now having the much more added flexibility and improved functionality  of what the current state  of what Cakewalk brings to the table . Plus I have been using " Cakewalk " products as my main DAW almost 15 years ...I hope I learned something by now 🤪

What even made it more Glorious for me was in the past when ever I saw the ole missing plugs dialog box I would take a step back and ponder if I wanted to tempt fate and the Lovely Muse from back then ...

Last Night I laughed out loud when I saw that box ...I realized I  had been  holding on to stuff (ideas &  plugs ) from back then that was about as good as the piece of coal and the shovel Abe Lincoln used to use to do his home work on ... after taking a deep breath and saying OK to that box I opened up over a dozen projects during the course of the night and closed each and every one of them that I wanted to work on  all as save as' s on my 17 inch lap tops HD ..

I'm happy because I don't have to fear loosing my work ( No matter how cwappy lol ) and there's always a shot to get it done right ...

all the best ,

 

Kenny

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Well ok - built a new computer with new audio+midi interfaces and bumped up to the Bandlab version after running whatever the last gibson version was.  Great advice to install the old version first and with the rest of my minimal VSTs installed in the same directory structures my old projects are opening up with a minimum of fuss.

I remember seeing a post (maybe old forum) talking about some alternatives to channel tools (that I loved and will miss) and bifilter?  Gotta dig that up. 

Keep up the good work! 

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On 9/3/2019 at 7:32 AM, Daniil Potseluev said:

Yes, I'm using and I like it. I use Sonar from 90' and now it's my main DAW.

You are using Sonar? You are not using Cakewalk? Is that what you are saying?

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On 9/5/2019 at 12:16 PM, John said:
On 9/3/2019 at 1:32 PM, Daniil Potseluev said:

Yes, I'm using and I like it. I use Sonar from 90' and now it's my main DAW.

You are using Sonar? You are not using Cakewalk? Is that what you are saying?

the name change really is more confusing than it should be! :D

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