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Jesse Jost

Still using SONAR?

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Posted (edited)

I used Sonar because it had, and let me stress this part, HAD the best comping workflow of any DAW out there. When Sonar went under I looked for something with a similar comp workflow. Nothing came close. So when BandLab took over Sonar and turned it into CbB, I came back with open arms for the sole reason of the comp workflow. Even though it did have it's 'quirks', and I sometimes had to use work-arounds,  it was still the best out there.

With the recent update, CbB has surpassed what Sonar could do comp wise. There isn't even any competition between what CbB comping can do and what Sonar comping is. And here is the most important fact, Sonar's comping will never change!! : )

I work with the PRV all the time. I use to try and use more than one PRV at the same time editing different instruments and drums. However, now I only use one PRV, with all my MIDI trks on that PRV. CbB has this part really nice. I can choose what MIDI events from different trks I want to work on or see. With just a click or two. I won't go back I can tell you that much. I can easily see how the drums and bass fit together in one view, click or two and I am working on the synths. I still have two monitors, but I barely use the second screen anymore.

I just don't see why anyone would use Sonar anymore. Looking at what I have now and what I am able to do, I just can't make any sense of it.

 

Edited by Grem
Spelling of course!
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11 hours ago, paulo said:

Thanks for replying Noel. Pretty much as I thought re win 7 tbh - I had written as much when I was posting, but deleted that part as reading it back I saw that it could be read as being accusatory/bashing when that wasn't my intention, just a guess/statement of how it probably is these days. I will try 2019.07 - I was holding back on installing it so far because it seemed problematic when first released. The inevitable dropping of win7 compatability does raise another question for me...seeing as the program now insists on being updated every 6 months or will revert to demo mode, what will happen to win7 users when the day comes that the update does not support win 7? Is it back to Platinum or will there be provision to leave the current installation be and just re-activate it? 

Re crashes, it seems they are usually caused by my  tweaking of something or other during playback, but I also suspect that Melodyne could often be the culprit. It's not constantly happening, just seems to be more often than last version of Platinum ever did, hence why I posted here. Sometimes reporting is not an option because mid playback the whole thing just closes and I'm looking at the desktop again with no messages or anything at all to say what happened. I re-open it again and all is fine. If I do get something that I figure is not Melodyne related or due to me being over ambitous within the confines of what I'm asking my old pc to do all at once I'll send it in. 

 

Don't worry about activation we're not going to leave users out in the cold. You can reactivate any version at any time even today by just logging back in to bandlab assistant. The primary purpose of the timeout is for users to get updates that address bad issues and make it hard for us to support the product. We're still evaluating how and when we'll handle Win7 so nothing is baked yet. Its possible that it may stop getting UI and feature updates but stay static with infrequent fixes.

Regarding the crashes, if its shutting down the entire app that looks a lot like heap corruption bugs from plugins that we have no control over. Due to the randomness of these issues it might appear more frequent than SONAR. I really doubt that it is related to the age of your PC but rather something specific to the set of plugins that you are using that is triggering it. If you get a crash send me the dump since more often than not it will highlight the cause. Have you already ruled out bad RAM as being the problem? We are literally getting reports from users who run the application doing heavy production for days without even shutting down the app with zero crashes in 07. This doesnt mean that there are no bugs but we are very much more stable than SONAR ever was.

 

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I'm one of those irritating Windows 7 purists, who will do everything in his power to avoid "upgrading" to windows 10. But snarky comments aside, I am running the latest version and it's working well. I upgraded from April 2018, so there was quite a difference, even in the looks (I really love the colors, helps me quickly find, say, the Cinematic Strings violas from the 40-50 midi inst's I have running). I plan to stay with this setup as long as I can. I've said this before, I'm 67 and probably will only be doing this another 10 years. Hopefully my current setup will carry me through. When the devs say "This is the last best updated Windows 7 version of CbB," that will probably be it for me. If I have to fool with the registry to prevent the clock from ticking, so as to avoid the reversion to demo mode, I will do it (thanks to Starship Krupa for that idea). 

Then again, perhaps Micro$oft will have repented of their monopolistic and manipulative ways, and there will be a new and better Windows, which will not require hours of tinkering to prevent the monetizing and spying which it was designed to do. Or I will have discovered that another DAW will work fine for me on good ol' Windows 7. Reaper was close, but the workflow just wasn't anywhere near to Sonar/Cakewalk's. 

But for now, things are good. and I still have the 04/2019 version (I saved the download), and even Sonar 8.5, to fall back on. I did contribute to CbB ($25.00) when it first rode in to rescue Sonar, and I consider Noel and the other devs, and of course especially Meng, to be knights in shining armor. And the forum is almost as good as the last one!

So many thanks for this great labor of love, which even for Luddites like me is truly a wonder of technological wizardry. May it continue forever. Or at least a long, long time.

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Most of my projects (created in Sonar) contain several instances of PRV docked in the undocked Multidock, each displaying a different single softsynth or otherwise some combination of midi tracks. I also have a separate screenset dovoted to drums with a PRV displaying the drum pane. This makes it easy to quick switch back and forth between editing different softsynths. With a single click I can resume editing drums and with no more that two clicks I can go to edit any other softsynth.

But this doesn't seem to work in CbB. Whenever I switch to another screenset and back again, the PRVs all become reset. Apparently they all revert to the settings of whichever one was last viewed. So having multiple instances become pointless as they are all identical. Sometimes they all display the drum pane when the drum pane is not appropriate. It's a mess.

Because @Noel Borthwick asked, and so @Kev's issue doesn't languish on the defunct forum, here it is. I hope that's okay. If it's not, please let me know and I will delete it immediately.

It looked like he wasn't the only one experiencing this and not liking it.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Have you already ruled out bad RAM as being the problem?

I didn't look into that as the problems I mentioned didn't seem to happen with Platinum. I will keep that in mind though. I have installed 2019.07 now so will see how that goes. Thank you for the info re activation and all the work you do here. This kind of interaction with the people on the inside was always the thing that set Cakewalk apart from the rest for me. Long may it continue.

Edited by paulo
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7 hours ago, paulo said:

I didn't look into that as the problems I mentioned didn't seem to happen with Platinum. I will keep that in mind though. I have installed 2019.07 now so will see how that goes. Thank you for the info re activation and all the work you do here. This kind of interaction with the people on the inside has always the thing that set Cakewalk apart from the rest for me. Long may it continue.

Let me know if you still have issues. Sometimes issues that may show up in older operating systems are actual problems that may be masked in newer OS's so we still want to know about it.

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18 hours ago, mdiemer said:

I'm one of those irritating Windows 7 purists, who will do everything in his power to avoid "upgrading" to windows 10. But snarky comments aside, I am running the latest version and it's working well. I upgraded from April 2018, so there was quite a difference, even in the looks (I really love the colors, helps me quickly find, say, the Cinematic Strings violas from the 40-50 midi inst's I have running). I plan to stay with this setup as long as I can. I've said this before, I'm 67 and probably will only be doing this another 10 years. Hopefully my current setup will carry me through. When the devs say "This is the last best updated Windows 7 version of CbB," that will probably be it for me. If I have to fool with the registry to prevent the clock from ticking, so as to avoid the reversion to demo mode, I will do it (thanks to Starship Krupa for that idea). 

Then again, perhaps Micro$oft will have repented of their monopolistic and manipulative ways, and there will be a new and better Windows, which will not require hours of tinkering to prevent the monetizing and spying which it was designed to do. Or I will have discovered that another DAW will work fine for me on good ol' Windows 7. Reaper was close, but the workflow just wasn't anywhere near to Sonar/Cakewalk's. 

But for now, things are good. and I still have the 04/2019 version (I saved the download), and even Sonar 8.5, to fall back on. I did contribute to CbB ($25.00) when it first rode in to rescue Sonar, and I consider Noel and the other devs, and of course especially Meng, to be knights in shining armor. And the forum is almost as good as the last one!

So many thanks for this great labor of love, which even for Luddites like me is truly a wonder of technological wizardry. May it continue forever. Or at least a long, long time.

As I mentioned earlier there is no need for undue concern. From our point of view you will be able to authorize even a prior version of CbB indefinitely assuming Win7 continues to run.

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23 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

As I mentioned earlier there is no need for undue concern. From our point of view you will be able to authorize even a prior version of CbB indefinitely assuming Win7 continues to run.

Thanks for the reassurance, Noel.

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I almost feel sorry for those still using SONAR and Windows 7, but "almost" is the keys word here because you're path and journey into obsoleting yourselves is almost complete. Or rather pricy with an ever expanding learning curve and deeper hole you've dug yourselves into trying to understand the many MANY benefits of technological progress being made that can only be truly understood and appreciated thru personal user experience, and how much ultimately easier, reliable, and stable digital recording has grown and matured into what is become today.

And depending on how long you've let your system fall behind in technology and maintenance running on the false entitlements and assumptions that everything can be done for "free", the more it's going to cost you to catch up and if you thought it was too pricey to invest in your system in small, gradual installments over the course of years, you are now faced with the certainty of dropping a much larger pile of cash all at once and learn how to use, understand, and navigate your way thru Windows 10, or go the way of the dinosaur.

 Or you could look at your system as an old car that served you well for years and years and you never had to put an extra penny into, until...………. The wheels fell off... Or the carburetor stopped carbureting, and there are no longer any replacement parts, and your old heap of beloved car not only has no trade-in value, you have to pay MORE to get it towed off the road it crapped out on to the scrap yard then the scrap yard will pay you for it.

Windows 10 was released 4 years, and it's no longer offered for free. We all had  years to look that gift horse in the mouth, and we were all offered the painless choice of painlessly upgrading migrating all our personal files, apps, programs, and or painlessly rolling Win 10 back to our original OS in it's original state if we didn't like it or it wouldn't support our favorite "can't live without" obsolete hardware.

 I actually rolled back my SPLAT workstation DAW to Win 7 Ultimate at 1st because my 10 year old Edirol PCR 500 MIDI keyboard controller was no longer supported. I was a bit upset with Roland for refusing to update to USB drivers, but quickly realized the problem was entirely my fault for assuming that Roland should be expected to even support their products USB drivers forever.,

Though it still works just fine as a keyboard controller thru it's standard 5 pin dyn MIDI I/O. Just not as good or bodacious as my newer tech replacement, the Novation Impulse 61. But truth be told, the PCR was NEVER as good as the Impulse, not even when it was new, LoL.

 And even though Cakewalk by Bandlab is still offered for free, Bandlab, like most other's don't offer support for Win 7, but as a very happy and elated user ever since it's very first update from SONAR Platinum, I can attest that CbB is not only a natural order of progressive of updates of SPLAT, Bandlab's support since it's takeover is nothing short of SUPERB!

 The absolute BEST IN CLASS and at ANY PRICE! Bandlab's support of Cakewalk is as equally as GOOD as Magix's support is BAD, and as any former Sony Software user absolutely  can relate to that, Bandlab.com, without a shadow of doubt, fills a service and distribution void for user's that ACIDplanet.com never even came close to approaching. 

 I know how change can be dark & scary, and can only imagine how terrifying it must seem to those who embrace a Negative Mindset the misinformed suspicious minds who always prefer to rely on collecting facts based on likeminded "Opinions" and "Beliefs" always on the alert for the impending and or eventual "Trojan Horse". 

Well we must have all heard the age old expression; "Opinions are like *****-holes, everybody has one." and I can't help but feel pretty close to certain that the world would be a much better, much safer, and much more stable and ultimately honest place if we would all stop trusting in opinions. Including staring with not trusting in our own opinions and beliefs.

 Because both are subject to change and neither has any direct base connection to the "Truth" which never changes no matter how much we try to hide and sweep it under the rug

 

Truth be told, adhering to my natural state optimism and positive attitude. I was a rather early adapter of both Cakewalk by Bandlab and Windows 10, and have as usual, taken all opinions with a grain of salt and simply set my course making decisions based on "Empirical Evidence".

 

And my experiences based on time tested "Empirical Evidence" using a Desktop or Tower computer Workstation built working in a DAW (music) or NLE (video).

Sorry folk's but contrary to many popular "Opinions"&"beliefs" Windows Laptop's and Surface tablet's simply are not powerful enough to even come close to competing with a desktop or tower no matter what kind of CPU or how much memory is installed, no matter how much you argue or how much money you spend, you will NEVER be able to break the laws of physics.

 

And I'm not saying Windows 10 x64 perfect, no OS has ever been perfected, and we've experienced a fair share of glitches and Oopie's, I'm just saying that, based on empirical evidence, Windows 10 Professional x64 is hands down the absolute most advanced, safest, fastest, and most trouble free OS I've ever used to date when installed on a well configured computer built with quality components, and will run excellent on any computer assembled in that criteria in the past 10 years, providing all 3rd party hardware and software have support for Win 10 x64, NO DAW at any price is more rock solid, more capable, or can BEST Cakewalk by Bandlab.

 

 

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Steev, we're all going the way of the dinosaur. It's just that some of us who are a bit closer to that eventuality than others have decided that what they have is good enough. And being lectured to by someone who sees it differently isn't going to change our minds.

If you like windows 10, that's cool. If you like staying on the crest of the wave, peering into future, saying "Damn the torpedoes," I'm happy for you. I'm in the lagoon, and the water's fine.

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Posted (edited)

 

On 8/20/2019 at 4:49 PM, mdiemer said:

I'm one of those irritating Windows 7 purists, who will do everything in his power to avoid "upgrading" to windows 10. But snarky comments aside, I am running the latest version and it's working well. I upgraded from April 2018, so there was quite a difference, even in the looks (I really love the colors, helps me quickly find, say, the Cinematic Strings violas from the 40-50 midi inst's I have running). I plan to stay with this setup as long as I can. I've said this before, I'm 67 and probably will only be doing this another 10 years. Hopefully my current setup will carry me through. When the devs say "This is the last best updated Windows 7 version of CbB," that will probably be it for me. If I have to fool with the registry to prevent the clock from ticking, so as to avoid the reversion to demo mode, I will do it (thanks to Starship Krupa for that idea). 

Then again, perhaps Micro$oft will have repented of their monopolistic and manipulative ways, and there will be a new and better Windows, which will not require hours of tinkering to prevent the monetizing and spying which it was designed to do. Or I will have discovered that another DAW will work fine for me on good ol' Windows 7. Reaper was close, but the workflow just wasn't anywhere near to Sonar/Cakewalk's. 

But for now, things are good. and I still have the 04/2019 version (I saved the download), and even Sonar 8.5, to fall back on. I did contribute to CbB ($25.00) when it first rode in to rescue Sonar, and I consider Noel and the other devs, and of course especially Meng, to be knights in shining armor. And the forum is almost as good as the last one!

So many thanks for this great labor of love, which even for Luddites like me is truly a wonder of technological wizardry. May it continue forever. Or at least a long, long time.

Windows 7 end of life: Months from patch cut-off, millions still haven't upgraded

 

I'd highly advise all Win 7 user's unplugging from the Internet, NOW to be safe. In the past year, the only people I know personally who were victims of hacks and exploits were Win 7 users with all kinds of conspiracy theories convincing themselves of Microsoft's dark intentions of taking them broke and eating their souls, and hacking into their own Registries and antiquated driver packages leaving gaping holes and backdoors large enough for hackers to drive trucks and RV's into.

Yep, they are already parking "exploits", and they are gonna have so fun with you self proclaimed "irritating Windows 7 purists" before the end of this coming January you'll most likely theorize Microsoft sold your soul to some 15 year old 3rd world nation to take over your computer and maybe, just maybe start recording from your DAW adding Rap lyrics to all your favorite song projects and posting them on YouTube with some really lude porno with Taylor Swift's head Photoshopped onto some kind of monkey or hairless cat or something, and she'll get mad at you, and you'll spend all your time and energy apologizing to Taylor Swift trying to convince her it's all Microsoft's fault, and won't even notice that the 15 year old from the 3rd world nation used your credit card to buy himself a new Windows 10, or God forbid, a new Mac Pro. 😫 Ya know, the computer that looks like a trash can, but costs as much as a new Toyota? Then you'll be sorry you didn't upgrade to Windows 10 I'll bet ya.

Did you know that Windows 10 built in "Defender" is rated on par with all 3rd party virus protection? And...……...

Microsoft: Using multi-factor authentication blocks 99.9% of account hacks

Staying ahead of the wave is some fine and very cool waters..

Edited by Steev

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Just so you don't lose any sleep over it, I fully intend to keep my windows 7 music computer offline after EOL. In fact, it is offline now by default. I only go online briefly and rarely. I use Linux for routine internet work. I know how to install windows in a virtual system, on Linux, safely sandboxed, so I can download anything  I need to, like updates to dongles, VSTs etc. Yes, there are risks that can never be completely minimized. But you can also do everything right (if there is such a thing), and still get slammed. Going online is always dangerous, for all of us. Practicing smart web behavior is the best deterant. Most bad things happen to people because of something they themselves did. Be careful where you go. What you click on. What you download. This alone will prevent the vast majority of malware attacks. I have this on good authority from the experts on Tom's Hardware forum.

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@ mdiemer only way I'd lose any sleep over this conversation is by thinking about it at bed time and slip into LMAO mode.. Just as I did when I read "This alone will prevent the vast majority of malware attacks. I have this on good authority from the experts on Tom's Hardware forum. " and laughed coffee out of my nose at the mere mention of building a Linux machine for Internet security, and the enormous hassle and extra work of setting up a VM to run Windows on it.

 Please don't explain WHY you would go thru all that extra work to do that, and or what it has to do with you still running SONAR and Windows 7?? I don't need to know, because I don't care, 😁

 I am no stranger to Tom's Hardware.com. It's a great place to research, umm, new "hardware technology"... ??? Keep abreast of things concerning new computer builds. AMD vs. Intel, new advancements in microchip tech, buss speed- northbridge/southbridge chipsets, SATA 3 vs. M2 PCIe, using USB-C ports to interface Thunderbolt 2 on Windows computers, and DisplayPort to interface Thunderbolt 3, and stuff like that.

 But I can't remember ever reading anything about safe internet practices or Microsoft's dark & evil practices to take over or manipulate anyone. 

Mayhap you have Tom's Hardware confused with Facebook or Twitter? 😂😂😂😂 

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I kept Sonar Platinum (SPLAT) installed so I could not only use the plug-ins with CWbBL, but in case I had any issues with CWbBL I could go back to SPLAT. Just for the record (see what I did there?) I have yet to have to go back to SPLAT. Everything has worked with few burps or hiccups in CWbBL.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

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To me its sad to hear people staying with an obsolete OS for dubious reasons. I am an early adopter of all of Microsoft's OS's going back to DOS. The only one I didn't get was Windows 7. I went from Vista to Windows 8. Then Windows 8.1 and then Windows 10. Windows 10 has been the best OS I have ever used. It keeps getting better too. BTW Windows 7 is Windows Vista lite. 😀

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@ razor7music ditto that bro. Wise move because that gives you full license and functionally for all the 3rd party and add on plugins Cakewalk Adaptive Limiter, Multi Band compressor, Linier Phase EQ, BlueTubes bundles, TruePianos, Addictive Drums 1 & 2, and all the extra add on ProChannel modules and VSTi (instruments) Dimension Pro, Rapture (to name a few collected over the years) that were previously bundled and included and licensed to your previous SONAR licenses we received over the years that aren't included and bundled with CbB.

 By leaving SONAR installed on your computer ALL of these extra tools seamlessly and automatically migrate and register in Cakewalk by Bandlab, and the only thing I've ever noticed changing was the desk top Icon changed from black to orange, the name of the DAW, improved performance and functionality due to continued updates, and a slight but noticeable bump in sound quality and VERY noticeable much lower latency due to the much improved Windows 10 "WASAPI" audio drivers that deliver amazingly low near ASIO super low latency performance.

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3 hours ago, Steev said:

@ mdiemer only way I'd lose any sleep over this conversation is by thinking about it at bed time and slip into LMAO mode.. Just as I did when I read "This alone will prevent the vast majority of malware attacks. I have this on good authority from the experts on Tom's Hardware forum. " and laughed coffee out of my nose at the mere mention of building a Linux machine for Internet security, and the enormous hassle and extra work of setting up a VM to run Windows on it.

 Please don't explain WHY you would go thru all that extra work to do that, and or what it has to do with you still running SONAR and Windows 7?? I don't need to know, because I don't care, 😁

 I am no stranger to Tom's Hardware.com. It's a great place to research, umm, new "hardware technology"... ??? Keep abreast of things concerning new computer builds. AMD vs. Intel, new advancements in microchip tech, buss speed- northbridge/southbridge chipsets, SATA 3 vs. M2 PCIe, using USB-C ports to interface Thunderbolt 2 on Windows computers, and DisplayPort to interface Thunderbolt 3, and stuff like that.

 But I can't remember ever reading anything about safe internet practices or Microsoft's dark & evil practices to take over or manipulate anyone. 

Mayhap you have Tom's Hardware confused with Facebook or Twitter? 😂😂😂😂 

Sigh...I know you said not to explain myself, but I have to correct you: First, I don't use sonar, I use the latest version of CbB. Second, I will not be actually using CbB on a virtual Windows 7 system. I said that I could use it to safely download things on a virtual system, so I can determine if it is safe, before installing it on my real Windows. Which by the way works great. Since I have it optimized, and practically nothing on it but CbB and music related stuff, it is lightening fast and dependable. I might also point out that I only do midi, which makes life a lot easier for me. 

I'm glad you will not be losing any sleep over my situation. Rest assured I also won't lose any over yours. 

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14 minutes ago, John said:

To me its sad to hear people staying with an obsolete OS for dubious reasons. I am an early adopter of all of Microsoft's OS's going back to DOS. The only one I didn't get was Windows 7. I went from Vista to Windows 8. Then Windows 8.1 and then Windows 10. Windows 10 has been the best OS I have ever used. It keeps getting better too. BTW Windows 7 is Windows Vista lite. 😀

I was actually elated with introduction of Windows 7 after all the headaches and problems I had Vista, and considered it to be the "Vista FIXED" version by removing all the extra bling, bling eye candy that made it pretty but did nothing for performance and first stable entry edition into wonderful world x64 computing.

 I liked it so much I stayed with it until Windows 10 because, to put it mildly I was NOT a fan  of the radically new and improved Windows 8 GUI. And by the time 8.1 came out and gave us the choice of switching back to the legacy GUI, I was simply too comfortable and confident in Windows 7 performance to try to risk fixing something that wasn't even close to being broken.

 But by the time Windows 10 came out it fairly obvious Windows 7 was becoming obsolete, it was after all 6 years and 3 versions old, and that translated to me to be a no brainer to jump on a free upgrade deal.

 So I just purchased a new hard drive and set my computer up for duel boot configuration, and made a clone image of Windows 7 as an extra added measure just in case something went wrong with the migration from Windows 7 to 10. Microsoft's update wizard stores a  full image of your v7 configuration installation in a temp folder and keeps it for 30 days just in case you're not 100% satisfied, or something goes wrong.

 It is after all a computer, and there is always literally 1000's of unexpected things that can go wrong during major upgrades, sooo.

But it didn't go wrong for the most part, except for my 10 year old obsolete keyboard controller it all went amazingly smooth as silk without a hitch, as did my roll back two weeks later to get my obsolete Edirol PCR 500 MIDI keyboard controller up and running again to finish a project in SPLAT.

And then 2 weeks after that I missed Windows 10 so much I broke down and upgraded the PCR 500 to a new Novation Impulse keyboard controller, reinstalled Windows 10 Pro and never looked back, nor did I EVER miss anything about Windows 7 again.

 I do look back fondly a v7 as my 1st stable introduction to x64 OS, but that's about it.

 And from day ONE and after 4 years of maturity, reliability and performance improvements, Windows 10 is heads and tails so much better, faster, and has and provises for a so much easier more streamlined work flow.

As does CbB has over SONAR.

 It's like trying to express the meaning of true love with mere words. IT MUST BE EXPERIENCED TO BE APREACIEATED enough to even begin to understand.

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If Windows 10 was such a problem, it companies wouldn't be dropping support for 7.

I no longer understand the apprehension to upgrade, esp. considering how much theyve changed the upgrade policy etc.. since release. It's starting to become a tad bit irrational.

Meanwhile, it's hard to get software with a smaller user interface polished on a "new" OS if users insist on taking the way back machine. Only hurts it in the long term...

I honestly don't personally know any media creatives still using 7. They've all upgraded. None complain. 

Also, "Micro$oft" is fairly ironic considering the OS has always been fairly cheap (esp. Upgrades) and they literally gave us Windows 10 and moved to an update model that requires no monetary investment on the part of the consumer.

Time to let that meme die...

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