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Jesse Jost

Still using SONAR?

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On 8/15/2019 at 6:33 PM, John said:

I think Samplitude is on a lot of desktops without being used. Its on mine too. 

I bought Sam when they had the super sale on it right after Gibson dumped Sonar.  I never did "get into it" - I ended up selling it on KRV.  I am using CbB.

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On 8/20/2019 at 4:22 PM, Noel Borthwick said:

 

Regarding the crashes, if its shutting down the entire app that looks a lot like heap corruption bugs from plugins that we have no control over. Due to the randomness of these issues it might appear more frequent than SONAR. 

Maybe I'm missing something, but if CbB can't handle 3rd party plugins that seems like a good argument for kicking it to the curb.  Maybe that's why all the audio professionals I know use other DAWs. 

I'll probably move on when I finish the projects currently on CbB if I keep having problems. This is day 3 of trying to open CbB. I can't tell you how frustrating that is.

 

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If Cakewalk couldn't handle 3rd-party plug-ins I would not need to kick it to the curb as I would not have begun using it in the first place.

I'm not sure why you've linked this thread to your own other one regarding the difficulties you've been having getting CbB to start up. Is it to suggest people who are still using SONAR that they keep using it and not upgrade to Cakewalk by BandLab? I'm hazy.

In the interest of getting your issues squared away, I've been following your thread, from my armchair perspective it looks as if Cakewalk is simply trying to write files or create processes when your user account doesn't have sufficient rights to do so. That's why the suggestion to run the program as Administrator.

BandLab has a support staff for Cakewalk, have you put in a ticket with them for your issue yet? The forum is not the only way you can get help.

I hope you get your projects straightened out soon, and will point out that if all the audio professionals you know use DAW's other than Cakewalk, they would have even less luck than you trying to open your old SONAR projects.

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11 minutes ago, Starship Krupa said:

If Cakewalk couldn't handle 3rd-party plug-ins I would not need to kick it to the curb as I would not have begun using it in the first place.

I'm not sure why you've linked this thread to your own other one regarding the difficulties you've been having getting CbB to start up. Is it to suggest people who are still using SONAR that they keep using it and not upgrade to Cakewalk by BandLab? I'm hazy.

In the interest of getting your issues squared away, I've been following your thread, from my armchair perspective it looks as if Cakewalk is simply trying to write files or create processes when your user account doesn't have sufficient rights to do so. That's why the suggestion to run the program as Administrator.

BandLab has a support staff for Cakewalk, have you put in a ticket with them for your issue yet? The forum is not the only way you can get help.

I hope you get your projects straightened out soon, and will point out that if all the audio professionals you know use DAW's other than Cakewalk, they would have even less luck than you trying to open your old SONAR projects.

"If Cakewalk couldn't handle 3rd-party plug-ins I would not need to kick it to the curb as I would not have begun using it in the first place."

I've been using it since Sonar 6. Where is my Back To the Future DeLorean?

"BandLab has a support staff for Cakewalk, have you put in a ticket with them for your issue yet? "

No, I'll do that. Just a little surprised that I was able to open CbB the last time I used it and now the experts of this forum  seem to be stumped when I'm trying to do nothing more exotic than open a project.

"I hope you get your projects straightened out soon,"

Thanks, me too.

"and will point out that if all the audio professionals you know use DAW's other than Cakewalk, they would have even less luck than you trying to open your old SONAR projects."

Why would I ask someone who doesn't use Cakewalk for help? My auto mechanic can't open my old Sonar projects either.

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19 hours ago, jonathan boose said:

Just a little surprised that I was able to open CbB the last time I used it and now the experts of this forum  seem to be stumped when I'm trying to do nothing more exotic than open a project.

Since I only started my Cakewalk adventures with CbB, I haven't run into anything like it myself, but from my observations of other users' issues on the forum, they can hit rough spots when trying to open projects that were originally created in earlier versions of SONAR. It eventually works, but a bit of tweaking is sometimes needed.

The reason so much shot-in-the-dark DAW troubleshooting begins with updates and plug-ins is that the person helping troubleshoot must first eliminate unknowns from the other person's setup. Both parties have to be at the same patch level. Then plug-in weirdness has to be ruled out.

When that's been done, if the program is still throwing error messages about being unable to access things, official support are probably going to have a fix for that right in their database.

My line about your "other audio professional friends" also not being able to open your old SONAR project was supposed to be my way of throwing a "so what" back at ya about the market-share shaming. As in "who cares if more people use Pro Tools, Pro Tools has even less chance of opening your old SONAR projects (ha ha)." Countering an irrelevant statement with another irrelevant statement.

I'm sure you'll eventually be able to open your old projects. It's annoying that it's taken so much trouble, but computers are such complicated beasts and glitch happen.

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3 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

Since I only started my Cakewalk adventures with CbB, I haven't run into anything like it myself, but from my observations of other users' issues on the forum, they can hit rough spots when trying to open projects that were originally created in earlier versions of SONAR. It eventually works, but a bit of tweaking is sometimes needed.

 

Quite a bit, apparently. I've been loading plugins one by one in safe mode to see which  stops CbB from opening. Quite time consuming.

 

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I watch a lot of cop/detective/mystery shows and there's often a scene where the victim's grieving partner who found the body (and who has already been shown to have been somewhere else at the time of the crime) is being questioned by the lead detectives, and they angrily ask "why are you wasting time interrogating me when the real killer is still out there on the loose?"

And the answer, whether the detectives say so or not, is that they must first eliminate the people that didn't do it. What Arthur Conan Doyle in the voice of Sherlock Holmes called "deduction." When in their past casework, 95% of murders are committed by the partner, and/or the person who found the victim....they have to get rid of that person as a suspect, no matter how many people (who might be lying) vouch for their alibi.

So goes "process of elimination." You get rid of the likeliest suspects first. Cakewalk enumerates almost 600 plug-ins on my system. If it had trouble with plug-ins, I wouldn't be so into it. I'm a self-confessed junkie for the darn things, and I use a lot of freebies from small one-person coding shops and so forth. I started both of the "Favorite Freeware plug-ins" threads on this forum.

Mostly what I witness is the really hardcore ones like Melodyne getting out of date, but I will confess that I once had one brief instance with a reproducible crash on a Meldaproduction plug-in(!). It was fixed within days of course, and I think switching to the VST2 build was a workaround, but still, even the mighty stumble from time to time.

When you contact support, they'll probably use the "database" method, which goes something like "oh, yes, we know about that one, go to Celemony's website and dowload the patch and you'll be fine." Or, "fire up your old Cakewalk Command Center...." etc. Or "change permissions on this folder," whatever....

Whatever happens, please post the solution!

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15 hours ago, Starship Krupa said:

I watch a lot of cop/detective/mystery shows and there's often a scene where the victim's grieving partner who found the body (and who has already been shown to have been somewhere else at the time of the crime) is being questioned by the lead detectives, and they angrily ask "why are you wasting time interrogating me when the real killer is still out there on the loose?"

And the answer, whether the detectives say so or not, is that they must first eliminate the people that didn't do it. What Arthur Conan Doyle in the voice of Sherlock Holmes called "deduction." When in their past casework, 95% of murders are committed by the partner, and/or the person who found the victim....they have to get rid of that person as a suspect, no matter how many people (who might be lying) vouch for their alibi.

So goes "process of elimination." You get rid of the likeliest suspects first. Cakewalk enumerates almost 600 plug-ins on my system. If it had trouble with plug-ins, I wouldn't be so into it. I'm a self-confessed junkie for the darn things, and I use a lot of freebies from small one-person coding shops and so forth. I started both of the "Favorite Freeware plug-ins" threads on this forum.

Mostly what I witness is the really hardcore ones like Melodyne getting out of date, but I will confess that I once had one brief instance with a reproducible crash on a Meldaproduction plug-in(!). It was fixed within days of course, and I think switching to the VST2 build was a workaround, but still, even the mighty stumble from time to time.

When you contact support, they'll probably use the "database" method, which goes something like "oh, yes, we know about that one, go to Celemony's website and dowload the patch and you'll be fine." Or, "fire up your old Cakewalk Command Center...." etc. Or "change permissions on this folder," whatever....

Whatever happens, please post the solution!

Actually, I think this POI is about identifying the body (which plugin). It wouldn't identify the motive (why did it fail) or necessarily the perpetrator since the software publisher can plant a weapon on someone (reflexively claim that it's user error).  If the plugin failed due to the fault of the publisher, would that be ruled a suicide? :S

Anyway, before I go through the remaining hundreds of plugins, in the other thread it was discovered that there was an optional Windows upgrade that I hadn't installed, so I'm going to try that 1st.

Does anyone still use the Nomad Factory Blue Tubes bundle that came with X3 Producer? If so, how did you access it?

I can live without it, but I'd like it back if it's doable.

 

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Still use and like the Nomad plugins. I can't remember if  Nomad released the plugins from Sonar or not. I don't think they did. 

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On 2/16/2020 at 7:52 AM, jonathan boose said:

 If the plugin failed due to the fault of the publisher, would that be ruled a suicide?

😄

I think the worst we could ever charge anyone with would be "negligent homicide."

(nice analogy re: planting the weapon on the user)

It's crazy, this business of plug-ins and drivers. As I said, Cakewalk counts about 600 on my system, many of which are part of suites that have download shells. But every so often I go down the list and have a "check for updates" party where I go to the websites of the ones that don't have mechanisms for alerting the user automatically. I don't keep any of the download managers running in the background, so I start all of those and let them do their thing, etc. There's always some bug fix or other. Most of the time it doesn't relate to anything I do, so I cross my fingers and hope that it doesn't break my current setup.

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I deleted the Bandlab version as soon as it came out. It sort of wanted to take over a lot of my computer access, or was in my face all the time. I assessed it as a non-professional product. Has it changed its ways?

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Bandlab Assistant (BA) is really only needed for 2 things: Installing Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB) in the first place, and periodically checking activation (about every 6 months or so). It doesn't need to run at all when you launch CbB after that, and doesn't start up with your system automatically anymore.

CbB has had a LOT of stuff fixed and added to it since SONAR was shuttered. Some bugs that have been around since the pre-X series days have finally been addressed and for the vast majority of us on here, it's the most stable it's ever been.  And for the odd cases where things aren't quite so great, you'll see heaps of devs on here directly answering questions or getting feedback to actually get to the bottom of the problem, rather than sweeping it under the rug.

Definitely worth revisiting!

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On 3/13/2020 at 7:55 PM, Bob Dickow said:

I deleted the Bandlab version as soon as it came out. It sort of wanted to take over a lot of my computer access, or was in my face all the time. I assessed it as a non-professional product. Has it changed its ways?

Bob, tell me more about your experiences regarding "take over my computer access", and "in my face".  I'm still running the final version of Sonar Platinum, and haven't seen a reason to change to Bandlab version.  I have similar concerns - if the software is free, then what is the business model to make money?  Advertising?  Harvesting and selling user data?

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The "what is the business model / how do they make money" thing comes up so often, it should really be a sticky or in the FAQ. It's a fair question, though.

Firstly, just to address the Bandlab Assistant thing, when CbB was first integrated into it, it would auto run with Windows start. A lot of us complained and it was fixed. The other thing that freaked a lot of people out was the software went into "demo" mode sometimes, which wasn't really named particularly well. That was also modified in a big way.

Basically, you only need Assistant to first install CbB and activate it, then it checks in periodically to make sure you're using an up to date version. The dev team is far more streamlined now than they used to be, and with the pace of new features and bug fixes that's coming in now, trying to keep half a mind on a version from 18 months ago where a lot of the problems people might be reporting here will already be fixed is a huge waste of limited time. It makes sense that everyone is on a relatively new version.

The other thing relates to "it's free, how are they making money."  If they can check activation, they can see how many users are using the software. It's kind of a no brainer for a business to know who their users are, really, and from what's been said in the forums, the core Cakewalk program will remain free, but a lot of the add ons that used to come with SONAR may be available for sale in the future some time, so knowing who your users are and having a way of contacting them is just smart business.

But don't take my word for it, here's a bit of reading from the old forum (scroll down in the thread) where Meng, the boss of Bandlab, chimes in about it:

http://forum.cakewalk.com/Cakewalk-by-BandLab-free-but-will-next-updateversion-cost-us-SONAR-userscustomers-m3744438.aspx#3745236

And the CTO here: 

 

 

Disclaimer: I don't work for Bandlab -  I'm just a regular dude that uses the software like the rest of us here, so I can only go on what I've been told. But any one of us that have been on the forums for a fair amount of time will know the people making CbB are genuine and simply care about making it better. I have to say that's a big part of why I've been so loyal to the product for so long. When Gibson pulled the rug out from everyone a couple of years back, from everything I've seen, everyone that managed to resurrect Cakewalk have all been doing it for the right reasons. I'm happy to see where it all goes.

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Posted (edited)

I am still using Sonar 8.5  .   My DAW runs WIndows XP SP3 and I have no plans to get off of it.  My audio interfaces (Delta 1010LT, two installed) are not stable using Win7 or higher when BOTH cards are used at the same time - which is why I bought them in the first place.

I use Reaper as well.  I installed their latest release 6.05 today, jumping from 5.980.  I waited rather than jump when 6.0 first came out.  The 6.05 release is pretty stable now. They still support WinXP and are also beginning to support Linux (drivers for my Delta boards are still an issue).

CbB is not free.  It would be a major investment for me to replace my DAW, audio interfaces with a 16 channel device, OS upgrade, and other software to run it. 2 years ago I costed out upgrading and it would have been around $4k.  Not in my budget.

My WinXP DAW station is the most secure computer I have.  The CAT5 cable is disconnected by default.  It has no WiFi.  It just runs.  I move files using a dedicated thumb drive.

 

Edited by aoresteen
spelling

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On 3/15/2020 at 5:52 PM, Tim Godfrey said:

Bob, tell me more about your experiences regarding "take over my computer access", and "in my face".  I'm still running the final version of Sonar Platinum, and haven't seen a reason to change to Bandlab version.  I have similar concerns - if the software is free, then what is the business model to make money?  Advertising?  Harvesting and selling user data?

Hi - just to let you know - all kinds of folks, myself included, have installed Cakewalk by Bandlab right alongside Sonar Platinum, and the two programs live happily in peaceful coexistence.  Our reasons for doing this may have originally included just being on the safe side but willing to give Cakewalk by Bandlab a shot, but the more compelling reason is that by continuing to keep Sonar installed, we all get to continue to use all of the bundled plugins that came with Sonar.  Because those bundled plugins simply check for the presence of Sonar to be considered licensed properly, they all are available for use in Cakewalk by Bandlab.

SO, by keeping Sonar installed, and also installing Cakewalk by Bandlab (CbB), you would have the safety of continuing to be able to use Sonar Platinum, if ever needed, and you would also get the benefit of continued development and maintenance of CbB, which started as the engine of Sonar Platinum without its bundled plugins, so you would have the best of both worlds.

CbB is in fine shape, and I encourage you to go ahead and set up a free Bandlab account, then download the Bandlab Assistant, and launch that to install CbB and the Studio Instrument add-ons (SI-Strings, etc..).   When you launch Bandlab Assistant, click on the Apps tab/button, and down at the bottom you will see the button for installing Cakewalk by Bandlab, and you can also install its Add-Ons (SI instruments).

Go for it - it is quite a nice place to be - running both.

Bob Bone

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Yup...Same here. First post, hi everyone.  I guess I am late to the party. I was a Platinum user, but the DAW PC was eventually decommissioned sometime in the Obama administration and I didn't need one as I was working on graphics and video on a Mac.  I recently took on a new project for an amazing vocalist so I dove back onto audio engineering via a trip to the back of the closet to drag out the olde Delta 1010 and built a PC around it....basically building a  state of the art 2004 DAW.  I had my serial numbers from SonarX2 so I tried to go to the old Sonar site to download the installer....boy was I in for a surprise!

Found this nifty idea that what was a pretty expensive piece of Software was now freeware with some kooky social media thing attached to it.  I followed the steps and installed the basic package...I noticed a lack of plug ins compared to the X1 Producer I was used to - but then found my olde install media and was able to also install Planinum X2 producer.  Suddenly everything was there and worked! neat!

. When I started this new project I did everything in Sonar X2, but the files all work as expected in CbB.  After reading the bug fixes , I'm comfortable in just working in the new hotness. A a bonus, I happened to find a sweet deal on the VS-700 set up and added it in  and that all works right too.  The DAW is airgapped normally other than for upgrades as it is running Win7 and I am one of those luddites that doesn't want Windows 10. Just updated and CbB complained once about going into the old OS and then all went in fine - I think the error message was "Hey, it's your neck, pal"

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On 3/15/2020 at 3:52 PM, Tim Godfrey said:

Bob, tell me more about your experiences regarding "take over my computer access", and "in my face".  I'm still running the final version of Sonar Platinum, and haven't seen a reason to change to Bandlab version.  I have similar concerns - if the software is free, then what is the business model to make money?  Advertising?  Harvesting and selling user data?

I took the plunge and reinstalled the latest BandLab. It doesn't do anything like the initial offering, so it is going to be a welcome addition to my music software. In its earliest incarnation, it put gadgets in my toolbar, did popups all the time, and seemed to want to sell me something persistently. Now it is a whole new ball game. Bandlab must have changed their approach.

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As someone who has used versions of Cakewalk and Sonar for over 20 years, I have to say the best thing about Cakewalk was getting acquired by Bandlab. I was sad when Gibson failed and shuttered Sonar as that was my main DAW for years. I just recently uninstalled it and installed the latest version of Cakewalk and I'm pleasantly surprised this is literally the most stable version of Cakewalk I've ever used! I spent less time fussing and actually creating music that trying to sort out why my stuff wasn't working! Thanks guys!!

-drew

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On 2/11/2020 at 7:28 PM, Beagle said:

I bought Sam when they had the super sale on it right after Gibson dumped Sonar.  I never did "get into it" - I ended up selling it on KRV.  I am using CbB.

The attitude among developers wasn't "yes another competitor gone" but almost like they lost a family member.  A longtime standing DAW goes under it chips at the confidence of DAW developers.

 I got Sam 3, Tracktion almost everything, and eventually added Cubase. They are not my cup of tea.  It still have Cubase on my other system.

In the last 20 years I've never seen a free DAW that does so much that isn't that complicated.   

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