Can anyone help me work out this sidechain technique?

[kevmsmith81]

Probably going to make myself sound like an idiot here, but here goes.  The technique I'm referring to is on this video linked below.

Essentially, there's a bus added for each of the reverb and the delay, with a compressor added after each in the chain.  The compressor then compresses based purely on the signal from the vocal track.

I've probably not explained it very well, which is probably down to me not understanding it very well....

I've tried what I thought was correct, using the Sonitus Compressor on the bus tracks, then as well as adding the bus tracks as sends, added a further send to the compressor on those bus tracks.  But that's clearly not correct as the result is even messier than before I added the sends.  

So, if anyone can help me with this, I'd be grateful as I have a track I'm working on that this technique would be perfect for if it works as suggested here!

 

[JnTuneTech]

I did a quick test with Sonitus Compressor, on my system, and I could not see what effect the sidechain input has, exactly, in the Sonitus processing. I also looked at the inline help for that compressor, and it mentions nothing of sidechain input at all.

I switched to a more full-featured compressor plugin, and not only does that give me a full readout of the sidechain input and its effect on the compression settings, but it also allows me to choose band-filtering on the sidechain signal, etc... It does the type of processing described in that "trick" video easily, which to me is basically a refined take on vocal FX ducking, really. -A very useful technique, to be sure.

You may need to try the experiment with a different compressor plugin, to really be sure it is working.

[kevmsmith81]

16 minutes ago, JnTuneTech said:

I did a quick test with Sonitus Compressor, on my system, and I could not see what effect the sidechain input has, exactly, in the Sonitus processing. I also looked at the inline help for that compressor, and it mentions nothing of sidechain input at all.

I switched to a more full-featured compressor plugin, and not only does that give me a full readout of the sidechain input and its effect on the compression settings, but it also allows me to choose band-filtering on the sidechain signal, etc... It does the type of processing described in that "trick" video easily, which to me is basically a refined take on vocal FX ducking, really. -A very useful technique, to be sure.

You may need to try the experiment with a different compressor plugin, to really be sure it is working.

Ok, thanks for the reply.  I'll have a look at the other compressors I have and see if any of them are able to do this.

[bitflipper]

It works with the Sonitus compressor. In fact, it's excellent for this application because of its bouncing-ball visual aid.

But you do need to set the compressor's threshold, ratio, attack and release correctly to get the result you're after, which is to duck the reverb in response to the vocal so that the reverb tail ringing out from the previous vocal phrase gets turned down. Depending on your settings, this can be a subtle effect, a drastic effect, or anything in between.

If you're using something other than the Sonitus compressor, it's likely you will have to explicitly tell the compressor to get its sidechain information from an external source. This isn't necessary with the Sonitus compressor.

All you have to do is make sure your Send is routed to the compressor's sidechain input.

TBH, I don't know how the Sonitus comp pulls this off. It must automatically disengage the internal sidechain when something is routed to its external sidechain. Most compressors I have require switching between internal to external sidechain before this technique will work. A few don't support external sidechain at all. 

For example, with FabFilter Pro-C you have to expand the sidechain section and click the In/Ext button to Ext.

Some compressors do a good job of hiding the external sidechain switch. But if you can't find it, look at the available Send destinations because Cakewalk will know if the compressor supports external sidechaining. Note that the destination may be labeled "Input 2" instead of "Sidechain" or "Side Input".

 

 

 

 

 

[JnTuneTech]

Whichever compressor you use, watch the mix - send settings, as it sounds from your original post that you may just be throwing too much from the sends at the sidechains in each bus. Overdoing input levels on the compressors (or most anything) will just make things difficult to manage.

[Andres Medina]

3 hours ago, kevmsmith81 said:

Essentially, there's a bus added for each of the reverb and the delay, with a compressor added after each in the chain.  The compressor then compresses based purely on the signal from the vocal track.

Nice technique!

Thanks for sharing -

[bitflipper]

Some reverbs and delays have built-in ducking. One of my favorites is tkdelay from tritik. Toraverb from D16 Group is another. You don't get as much control, but it makes the process very quick and easy. Of course, this method really only works when you're using the reverb as an insert on a track rather than as a bus effect.

You can also use the sidechain trick for other things. Most commonly, it's used to quickly dip a bass in synchronization with a kick drum. But you can do lots of other things. For example, route all your instruments to a bus, put the compressor there and sidechain it to the vocals. With a slow attack and release, it will subtly lower the instruments while the singer is singing. Another creative application is to put the compressor on a synth playing a pad, and modulate it off the drums so that the pad modulates in time with the drums. Once you start playing around with the technique you'll think of all kinds of novel applications.