Problem moving project between CbB installs

[Jack Hawk]

I recently brought a second site live and I'm usingCbB. Created my first project and tried to open it back in my main studio. I took the entire folder backto the studio and opened it,but when I attempt to play it,I get an error that it doesn't have the correct output.It opens correctly and the outputs are mapped correctly for that PC.  Projects created on that workstating play fine. This one plays fine at the remote location. My goal is to be able to mix and edit all files at both locations. What am I missing? any help apperciated.

Jack Hawk

 

[msmcleod]

21 minutes ago, Jack Hawk said:

That's my problem!!! Soundcraft uses 11 & 12 as the outout, the UMC uses 1&2. The Soundcraft is 12 track, with 11 & 12 slated as the output.  So I'll never be able to share projects between them? unless I can rename or make the system think it's using 1 & 2.  When you said clock in your previous response,  I thought you were referring to the system clock. my studio is set to 44100. I did use 176k for this project, but was planning on redoing it at 44100 since that seems to be the standard. So I may have 2 issues. Actual output names, and the sample rate I used for this particular project... Thank you for helping talk me through this. It's been quite helpful.

When you open a project that was targeted for outputs that don't exist, you'll get a dialog asking you to remap the outputs.  Just pick the new outputs and you should be able to continue.

Sample rates are a different story.  Most devices will automatically change their sample rate to that of the project, but if it does complain you can manually change the sample rate before re-opening the project.

[Jack Hawk]

I am wondering if a different bit depth setting on the output may be the issue.  the new setup is set to24. I believe the main studio is set to 16. Something to try perhaps?

Jack Hawk

[John Vere]

Bit depth is actually 32 inside Cakewalk. That setting is irrelevant. But the Clock rate should always be set to be the same . I find 48 is never an issue as  movies are 48 etc. 
I switch computers all the time including going from using an audio interface to using on board audio. 
My guess is you have too many audio systems active and Cakewalk doesn’t know what to do with that. Uncheck all audio devices you are not using in windows sound settings. Then make the device you are using is selected in Cakewalk preferences and Apply the settings. 
Make sure the master bus is then using that output 

[Jack Hawk]

41 minutes ago, John Vere said:

Bit depth is actually 32 inside Cakewalk. That setting is irrelevant. But the Clock rate should always be set to be the same . I find 48 is never an issue as  movies are 48 etc. 
I switch computers all the time including going from using an audio interface to using on board audio. 
My guess is you have too many audio systems active and Cakewalk doesn’t know what to do with that. Uncheck all audio devices you are not using in windows sound settings. Then make the device you are using is selected in Cakewalk preferences and Apply the settings. 
Make sure the master bus is then using that output 

Thanks for the reply. Just checked my remote setup. I will need to check my studio settings next trip over there.  I've attached a pic for information. So you're saying I should change this to 48  ticks per quarter note? I've never adjusted this on any on my systems, but have never tried working between systems before. At the studio there are two playback devices. An on board sound card and my Soundcraft 12 MTK. The 12 MTK is set as default for Cakewalk and I did check to verify it's setup correctly. So the other settings here look correct. I believe the error was something to the effect of "cannot find correct output device". I will also verifynext trip there, likely Saturday. Thanks again for the information. One last bit of info... studio is the Soundcaft 12MTK, remote is a Behringer UMC202HD. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Jack Hawk

[John Vere]

The screen shot is not what I was talking about, 48 kHz is a common Sample rate for projects, it will show here. 44.1kHz is another common sample rate too. The default sample rate can be set for new projects in audio settings shown in my screen shot. You can also set it in your audio interfaces control panel. 

Both your audio interfaces come with ASIO drivers, make sure you download and install the latest drivers. Make sure they are the only device you are using for Cakewalk. Check that your Master bus is set to outputs 1 & 2 for both systems. If it is not, then you will have an issue as described. 

Edited March 30, 2023 by John Vere

[Jack Hawk]

That's my problem!!! Soundcraft uses 11 & 12 as the outout, the UMC uses 1&2. The Soundcraft is 12 track, with 11 & 12 slated as the output.  So I'll never be able to share projects between them? unless I can rename or make the system think it's using 1 & 2.  When you said clock in your previous response,  I thought you were referring to the system clock. my studio is set to 44100. I did use 176k for this project, but was planning on redoing it at 44100 since that seems to be the standard. So I may have 2 issues. Actual output names, and the sample rate I used for this particular project... Thank you for helping talk me through this. It's been quite helpful.

[Jack Hawk]

Actually you are correct... Neither of these should be a problem. Outputs are mapped in Cakewalk automatically for the particular instance. When I checked at the studio, they were mapped correctly. And since this is a finished project, sample rate shouldn't be an issue... I'm still having issues though. I will take a screenshot next time I am there and post it.  Doesn't make any sense as everything is set up correctly... 

[Starship Krupa]

I move projects between multiple systems with different interfaces (16 channel Focusrite on one, 2 channel PreoSonus or even onboard sound on the other) all the time.

Sometimes I get the dialog Mark mentions and sometimes I have to set the output from my Master bus, but it always works.

And I do suggest setting your default depth to 24 bits (which Cakewalk uses for bouncing and imports), but not for this reason. It just allows the resulting files more dynamic range to use.

[Jack Hawk]

I will post a screen shot of the error next time I'm there, hopefully Saturday.

[John Vere]

 

17 hours ago, Jack Hawk said:

I'm still having issues though. I will take a screenshot next time I am there and post it.  Doesn't make any sense as everything is set up correctly... 

First SAMPLING RATE

Very possible that this is due to the unorthodox sample rate. Both your interfaces are entry level. My research into higher sample rates is they should be avoided by home studio set ups using entry level gear. There's nothing gained sonically and you are pushing the system much harder which can cause audio issues. 

48kHz sampling rate is the most widespread format used . 44.1kHz is a dead issue as it serves no purpose these days and will cause conflicts if you try and open the internet with Cakewalk running. All the stuff on the internet is 48khz. 

A common myth is to use 44.1 if you still burn CD's. Nope- I burn CD's  using Nero and I just drop my 48/24 wave files in there and it converts them to 44.1/16 and burns the CD. 

I don't even make MP3 files anymore once I discovered Sound Cloud will upload my 48/24 files.  

 I recommend setting everything to 48. Including Windows. 

Audio Drive Bit Depth

 Do not confuse Computer bit depth with audio bit depth. Computer stuff like our VST plug ins use 32 bit and 64 bit. 

Audio uses 8, 16,24 and 32 bit. 

A CD and older interfaces used 16 bit.

Most all audio interfaces use 24 bit with only a few out there might use 32 bit now. Anything that only uses 16 bit will be totally obsolete.  When you install the ASIO driver for your interface you will see that as displayed in my screen shot above 3rd box down Audio Driver Bit Depth  24.  You cannot change this it is set by the driver. If you look in Windows setting you will see even there it cannot be changed. It can often be changed in none ASIO modes like WASAPI.  

Cakewalk works using 32 bit floating point for all it's background processing. Cakewalk could care less about the Bit Depth of an audio file. A project can have only one Sample rate but can contain multiple bit depth files. 

Cakewalk will accept any imported audio files and will convert them to the projects SAMPLE RATE but will not change the bit depth.  Therefore if you drag a 44.1/16 bit file from a CD into Cakewalk and the project is using 48kHz sample rate, the file is now 48/16. 

All new audio recorded will be at 24 bit depth. 

Because Cakewalk works at 32 bit I do all my bouncing using 32 bit depth no dithering. 

And this is how you can take your project and convert it to 48kHz and see if that solves other issues. 

Midi tracks that are not frozen are not involved, They work at any Sample rate. 

Open the export dialog and set everything the way I show here. Uncheck all Midi and Midi instrument tracks. 

NOTE: I forgot to change the Stereo to Mono. If there are a combination of stereo and mono tracks you will need to export twice, one for each type. 

Now delete all the original audio tracks from the project. Everything. There cannot be any hint of audio in the project. 

Now change the Sample rate to 48kHz ( or ?)  by clicking the Sample rate box  ( 48/24) in the Transport Module as shown above in my first post. This will open your interfaces control panel. Make sure the Sample rate box changes to the new rate. You might hear a click. 

Now drag the exported audio back to the project. It will be clearly named. Just make sure to place it correctly at the very start. 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by John Vere

[Jack Hawk]

I did try this and still get the error. I will keep trying different things.

[pwal³]

do you have any other apps, like a browser, also running when you get that msg?

[Jack Hawk]

I finally did the export, and imported into a new project which allowed me to open here. I used the unorthodox sample rate because the device in question is supposed to handel up to 192k and 176k was an option. I thought I'd try and see if it made any positive improvements, but that's the last time I'll do so. Yes, I did make sure I set the original project back to 48k... whatever glitched affected the entire project apparently.

[Jack Hawk]

13 minutes ago, pwalpwal said:

do you have any other apps, like a browser, also running when you get that msg?

I do, but that project is the only one that hoses, and I did use some bogus settings, so that is likely my issue.  While I get around fairly well in this and Studio One, which I also use fairly regularly, There's a whole lot of pieces I'm not well versed in, and they bite me in the ***** occasionally... This is one of those times.

[JnTuneTech]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:50 PM, Jack Hawk said:

That's my problem!!! Soundcraft uses 11 & 12 as the outout, the UMC uses 1&2. The Soundcraft is 12 track, with 11 & 12 slated as the output. 

In my experiences moving projects from one system to another, I have found it best to set at least the output channel selection on each system - Cakewalk audio devices - preference panel, to match the number of outputs - it matters not what they are named, on each system. -In the case of multi-channel output devices (i/e more than 1 stereo pair), -un-check the output pair(s) that you will not be using on either system, before bringing in a project from the alternate/outside system.

So, if you have only one pair of stereo outs in your project(s), make sure any other system you use to open them will have only 1 pair of output channels (as per your notes, whatever is the considered the main output pair) active, and it will make going back & forth much easier.

 

Also, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that as long as Cakewalk would open, and has passed the initial input/output settings dialogs earlier, etc., -if I had a question of audio output conflict or audio device settings, I could double-check things by opening a blank, or MIDI-only project at first, as that will usually honor the settings of the  actual bit rate & depth of the ASIO configuration without crashing. Some ASIO control dialogues don't always link properly to the Cakewalk settings panel - if I remember correctly.

[Jack Hawk]

Thanks to all who replied with possible solutions. I believe it may have been the sample rate I selected. I have re-recorded and will attempt again, but that seems to be the likely culprit, so I learned something. To anyone elso with one of these Behringer interfaces... the latest drivers do not work for me. I tried them twice and had them hang Cakewalk whenever they were loaded, so I uninstalled and went back to the v4.59. I believe I have most everything setup and functioning at this point... Thanks again for the help.