Grem Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, abacab said: pro market large enough to carry Waves? I will take it a step further and say that most if not all pros have all they need. All the hardware and all the emulations they need. They will not allow one company to try and suck blood out of them for nothing. Those pro studios and engineers want something in return. And what does Waves have to give them? Like I said, they have all the coveted hardware and many different versions of emulations of them. So what would they pay Waves for on a continuous basis? It was one thing when everyone was trying to emulate say, the Pultec EQ. Waves sat at the top of the heap and could charge what they could get the market to pay. Now everyone can create a very good Pultec. Waves has to sell to us for $29 to stay in business. Now that we all have all the Waves we want, what have they got to give us? The Pros don't need them, we don't need them... what wi they do next? Charge a subscription for what? Brilliant I say!! Brilliant! Unless they got some game changer up thier sleeve. I just don't see this as anything but a last grasp.... Larry may be correct in that they will still offer perpetual licenses for all their plugins. But at what price? I am like Bapu, gonna wait this one out. And hope "we don't get fooled again"! [TOTP!!] Edited March 21, 2023 by Grem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John1984 Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I can suggestion one answer: 3 minutes ago, Grem said: The Pros don't need them, we don't need them... what wi they do next? I tend to agree with you that professionals have what they need. As products (or updates to existing products) arrive on the market that make more efficient existing workflows, or provide a true paradigm change in technology, pros will invest. From my perspective, the audio plugins and sample libraries and VST instruments market exists and thrives today because there are so many hobbyists participating. Without hobbyists, we'd find ourselves back in the Stone Age. And I'm not denigrating hobbyists -- I make purchasing decisions based on booked work, but I have a hobbyist side that I rationalize purchases for pleasure. Professionals tend to continue to get updated products and support because the greater market -- hobbyists -- pay the bills. Nothing wrong with that, everyone gets something that makes them happy. This apparent change in Waves seems to me more of a decision to keep margins in-house. I'd like to think someone, somewhere in Waves did the simple math on this. It may seem on the surface they are making a huge mistake cutting out 3rd party sellers, but it may well be that Waves' email list is large enough and generating enough return that it makes up for sharing revenue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneofmany Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 I am just a simple hobbyist with a couple of old waves plugins purchased from them years ago. The email I received from them indicated that if I purchased any plugins from a third party that I had to register that with them to ensure they are perpetual, and if purchased directly through them, that no action was necessary. No mention of a subscription. Think mine are v9 and v10. Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fwrend Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 hour ago, abacab said: Is their pro market large enough to carry Waves? Wasn't it for ProTools (for a while)? While there are far more developers of plugins than DAWs, I would think the same concern would apply. Maybe apples & oranges but certainly the speed at which tech evolves as well as its saturation in the market creates unique opportunities for the young and demands new strategies for the old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 They are big enough and well known enough that I've wondered why they need resellers whom take a cut at this point. Yes, when I did buy them it was always through a reseller at a price better than Waves offered. Just saying that I think they reached a point where people are willing to pay $30 or not and everyone who produces music knows who they are already. The only problem with the model is if Larry decides to boycott posting their deals here, that move could hurt them. 😂 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PavlovsCat Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 This will actually cut down on Larry's workload, as there's pretty much been a Waves sale every other day -- at least it seems that way. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zo Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Download last off line installers of your plugins and put licences on a key ..... move on and cross finger .... Doing it as i type 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 tmpc on VI Control contacted Waves and was told "they are moving to a different company to handle the actual license generation and management" I still think I might be right about them getting rid of WUP. Maybe moving back to iLok. It made sense to use their own license manager when creating new iLok licenses comes at a cost and new Waves versions covered under WUP required generating new licenses. But what an error prone mess Waves licenses are. I'm terrified of updating Waves plugins because half the time everything disappears and I have to do some kind of deep clean to get them back. It must have been costing Waves a fortune in support dealing with all the issues. Whereas iLok, for all the hate it gets, works pretty reliably these days. So if there's no more WUP, then there's no reason to maintain their own licensing and copy-protection regime when iLok does it better. Anyway that's just my guess... partly fueled by wishful thinking 🙂 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 I reckon AVID might have offered free transitional licenses for existing Waves licenses to sweeten the deal. That's what I'd do if I was AVID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zo Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 UAD going native without sub , waves going sub will be a suicide .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Zo said: UAD going native without sub , waves going sub will be a suicide .... There's no indication they're going sub, or at least sub only. Mathematics on VI Control called Waves and was told "DEALERS won't be able to sell perpetual licenses after the 23rd but Waves will still offer perpetual licenses directly." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin H Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 As heard in Waves boardroom (allegedly) -“WUP has been a successful model for us….let’s bring licenses in house and charge daily WUP“…..brilliant they all agreed haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcL Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 4 hours ago, Craig N said: tmpc on VI Control contacted Waves and was told "they are moving to a different company to handle the actual license generation and management" I still think I might be right about them getting rid of WUP. Maybe moving back to iLok. It made sense to use their own license manager when creating new iLok licenses comes at a cost and new Waves versions covered under WUP required generating new licenses. But what an error prone mess Waves licenses are. I'm terrified of updating Waves plugins because half the time everything disappears and I have to do some kind of deep clean to get them back. It must have been costing Waves a fortune in support dealing with all the issues. Whereas iLok, for all the hate it gets, works pretty reliably these days. So if there's no more WUP, then there's no reason to maintain their own licensing and copy-protection regime when iLok does it better. Anyway that's just my guess... partly fueled by wishful thinking 🙂 That would be great if they went back to iLok IMO. No more hassle of an additional non-iLok USB(**) and a clear, reliable authorization path! This would be one of the 2 most important steps for me to buy Waves plugins again (the 2nd one would be the drop of the shell plugin). (**) E.g. lately I forgot to insert the USB with the Waves licences and accidentally opened a Waves plugin. There was no other way to stop it, than killing CbB! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasure Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 13 hours ago, Zo said: Download last off line installers of your plugins and put licences on a key ..... move on and cross finger .... Doing it as i type I did exactly this last night, we`ll have to wait and see what happens. I'm lucky to have most bundles including Mercury something I could have never afforded back in the day. Only through upgrades and discounts over several years was this possible for me personally 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zo Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) double Edited March 22, 2023 by Zo double Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
husker Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 22 minutes ago, rasure said: Only through upgrades and discounts over several years was this possible for me personally 🙂 Me too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zo Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 i hope that wup still an option , i avoided to by indiv plugins to wait until i wup my V9 lol so it's been a long time and i will get like 20 new plugins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mettelus Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 18 hours ago, Grem said: [TOTP!!] LOL, I keep chuckling when you do this, is like you are planning it or something There have been so many contentious Waves posts over the years that I never touched them. I see subscriptions as sort of vendors acknowledging they don't have much more coming in terms of features but want to keep revenue going. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnbee58 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Just checked their website (waves.com). Not a word about it there. Does "In House" mean that we will no longer be able to purchase them through retailers line Sweetwater? I always buy Waves plugins through Sweetwater because unlike Waves.com the tech support is free indefinitely. 😀John B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralfrobert Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, Johnbee58 said: Just checked their website (waves.com). Not a word about it there. Does "In House" mean that we will no longer be able to purchase them through retailers line Sweetwater? I always buy Waves plugins through Sweetwater because unlike Waves.com the tech support is free indefinitely. 😀John B Communication with customers is sub-standard. I am glad I only have a small selection of Waves plugins and can easily replace them. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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