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SynthManDan

Stuck midi notes still a problem.

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I’ve got my buffer set to 850, and still getting hung midi notes.  How high should I go?  Some have said 750 works fine for them, but at 850 I still have the issue.

Running Cakewalk on Fujitsu T901 laptop, 64 bit, i5, 8 gigs ram, and SSD.

Thx.., SMD

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Can you  mention: which buffer you try to set (ASIO or "MIDI preparation"), what is the value of different one, which VSTi/DX are you using, do you have tones of CC  on that track and can it be indirect MIDI loop (not always visible)?

All that can be relevant. "MIDI preparation" buffer is a kind of magic like. There are serious problems in MIDI DX concept in general and I guess some long term problems in its implementation. Sometimes bigger is worse, sometimes opposite.

ASIO better keep lower, especially when you have many CC. Design mistake in VST2 (yes, no one is perfect), more precisely the fact Steinberg has described that part not well, followed Ableton (and in my tests Cakewalk) have interpreted that part wrong, as the consequence the rest of the world had to adopt.

The number of CCes can also influence internal buffers inside particular plug-ins. In general it is not a good idea to draw them "smooth" (when possible).

And so on... 😁

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Posted (edited)

Under Audio Driver Mode:  WASAPI Exclusive (So I can set my latency under 20 msec).

Under Midi Playback and Recording:

Record:  Number of Buffers 64

Playback:  Prepare Using 850 (Millisecond Buffers).

The only CC’s I’m using is the sustain pedal.  No pitch/mod wheel, no knob movements ect.

SMD

Edited by SynthManDan

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Sometimes overlapping notes can cause serious bodily injury when it comes to missing/dropped midi notes. Is it the same notes sticking all the time ? If it is than open the PRV and do a visual.

I find 500MS is the typical norm. Did you start there and move up to 850MS ??

there's also some info here that may be helpful

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It’s not the same notes every time.  It’s also not overlapping notes either.  I can’t remember what Cakewalk defaulted to upon downloading, but I moved it up to 750, and it seemed to help a little, but I’m up to 850, and still having the issue.

SMD

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I’ve been experiencing the same thing lately as well. And it’s not overlapping notes or stray CC data. It’s a NEW issue.  It doesn’t happen at the same spot each Also while the notes are ringing I can play the keyboard and the notes play staccato as they should while the hung notes stay hung until the sus pedal is depressed.  Weird bug. Hoping this 🐛  gets squashed soon!

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6 hours ago, Blogospherianman said:

the notes play staccato as they should while the hung notes stay hung until the sus pedal is depressed.  Weird bug. Hoping this 🐛  gets squashed soon!

 

12 hours ago, SynthManDan said:

The only CC’s I’m using is the sustain pedal.

Seems like the Sustain pedal is a common theme with both of your issues. Have you tried not using it and see if you still get stuck notes ?

Why don't you post a .CWP project file here (midi only is fine) and I will take a look at it.

You could also send in a project to Cakewalk and have them take a look at it but it might be helpful to include repro steps with your submitted projects. Those steps might be able to be figured out here in this thread.

11 hours ago, SynthManDan said:

I can’t remember what Cakewalk defaulted to upon downloading, but I moved it up to 750, and it seemed to help a little, but I’m up to 850, and still having the issue

The default is 250MS.

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Posted (edited)

Hardware or software synths? If soft, which one, and is it inserted in the Synth Rack or in the track's FX bin? If it's in the FX bin, try moving  it to the Synth Rack.   If hardware, is it connected by MIDI DIN to an external interface or by USB MIDI built into the synth?

Are there any FX plugins in the project with very high plugin latency that triggers Plugin Delay Compensation?  Cakewalk/Bandlab's LP plugins induce a lot of DPC at med/high precision settings that can cause MIDI buffering issues - usually dropped note ons, but  I suppose dropped note offs or controllers would also be possible.

MIDI FX plugins can also potentially cause problems, even if they're on some other track.

Also, just to be clear, are we talking about real-time performance by input-echoed MIDI or playback of recorded/imported MIDI? The Prepare Using Buffer only applies to  playback.

Edited by David Baay

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My issue is during playback only.  When mixing my project, the notes on some tracks hang when I press stop.  I think another poster may be on to something, as it seems to be related to notes that have been sustained via a pedal.  I have Xpand2 hang up constantly, and that’s without using any effects outside the VST.

SMD

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For sustained notes 'hanging' on stop, you can enable 'Zero Controllers When Play Stops' in Preferences.

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1 hour ago, David Baay said:

For sustained notes 'hanging' on stop, you can enable 'Zero Controllers When Play Stops' in Preferences.

That was the first thing I checked.  Already have it checked.  Doesn’t have any affect on the outcome.

 I do change that setting depending on which soft synth I’m working with and whether zeroing controllers is useful for what I’m working on.  (String articulations triggered by CCs  for VSL might be better off Not zeroed for working up parts on the current articulation as opposed to zeroing to the 1st cell in the first row upon stop)

Been using soft synths for years and haven’t had the issue like this where changing the setting didn’t solve it.

Bounces fine and proper, just annoying during stops. 

Certainly appreciate the ideas though!!

👍

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This has to be a sustain bug.  It’s only hanging if stop is pressed while a note is being sustained.  If I stop the project at points where sustain CC data isn’t present, it’s fine.  Any time stop is pressed while sustain is active, notes hang.  

Blogosherianman, have you updated to the latest version of Cakewalk, if so are you still experiencing it? 

SMD

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Seems most likely it's the particular synth your using that's not responding  to CC 121 All Controllers Off. Try putting some other controller in the track that gives a clearly audible result, and see if that gets zeroed. You might also try assigning a forced Output channel to the track to make sure the Zero Controllers message is getting to the right channel on the synth.

One thing I don't understand is that my experience has always been that soft synths generally won't sustain on stop even if Zero Controllers is disabled. I don't know much about soft synth programming, but I always thought this was because the synth gets some non-MIDI message directly from the host telling it to stop producing output. For example, a drum synth that has a cymbal ringing on stop will go silent even though drum samples are typically triggered as 'one-shots' that don't respond to Note Offs. So even if SONAR isn't sending Zero Controllers or the synth isn't responding to it, it should still go silent.

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You might be on to something.  I did a test with 4 different VST’s.

SoniVox EightyEight Ensemble

AIR Xpand!2

Acoustica Pianissimo 

Philharmonik 2 CE

I recorded a piano passage with EightyEight Ensemble, then just copied the midi data to the other tracks (all piano patches).

I then went track by track (muting) to test each VST.  SoniVox 88 Ensemble is the only one that doesn’t hang.  All others did.  So if SoniVox is getting the proper messages, I wonder what’s happening with the others.  I ran this test in another DAW, and none of them hung (with the exception of Philharmonik 2 that crashes that DAW, and can’t be used for the test).

SMD

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I downloaded the demo of Pianissimo (32-bit only, but that shouldn't be a factor), and reproduced the issue. I ran the same track against True Pianos - Cakewalk, and SI electric Piano, and they both responded as expected.

Then I inserted a CC 121 Reset All Controllers, which I thought was what Zero Controllers sends, but, surprisingly, none of them responded to it.

Then I replaced CC121 with CC123 All Notes Off, and only Pianissimo did not respond to that.

Then I disabled Zero Controllers in preferences, and found that TruePianos and SI Electric Piano still went silent on stop as has been my experience with soft synths. It may well be that SONAR sends All Notes Off on stop. IRC, there are settings related to this in the TTSSEQ.ini and/or Cakewalk.ini. 

So now I'm note sure how Zero Controllers is implemented. I probably knew at one time, and have forgotten. I'd be surprised if it sends individual controller messages, but it's possible.

But the bottom line seems to be that this issue is synth-specific. 

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