How do I get louder volume without clipping?

[T Boog]

Hi, I have my monitors cranked and the master bus nearly full up and it still isnt loud enough to really enjoy tracking. I know that mastering is where u really boost the dbs but while I'm tracking, is there a way to boost the overall mix volume so that Cakewalk output hits my speakers harder? ANY tips to boosting volume is very appreciated.

[John Vere]

Boost 11 comes with Cakewalk and that can give you about 6db boost without clipping. But beyond that it will start distorting. Loud max is free and can be pushed a little harder. 
Just curious but is your master bus clipping?  If it is and your monitoring system is not loud enough then a few things to look into. 
If you are using an audio interface do you have your settings correct on the front?
If you are using on board audio do you have that turned up in Windows?

Or is it your trying to use computer speakers?  
Go to the dollar store and by a set of studio size headphones. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by John Vere

[msmcleod]

Also check your low frequencies - there could be a bunch of low level information in some tracks that are inaudible, but pushing the signal to peak.

I find putting a high pass filter on most of my tracks solves this... just move the frequency up until you just hear a difference, then back it off again slightly.  Doing it at the track level means you get rid of far more of the frequencies you don't need.

[Larry Jones]

Are you trying to achieve concert levels? Maybe you need a stronger power amp, or bigger amps in your powered speakers, or bigger speakers.

[Starship Krupa]

10 hours ago, Tarrell Freeze said:

I have my monitors cranked and the master bus nearly full up and it still isnt loud enough to really enjoy tracking.

Is that Master bus' meter peaking around -3 to -6? There are a couple more possible choke points between that Master fader and your (presumably powered) monitors.

First is Cakewalk's Hardware Outputs. That's the slide-out panel to the right of the Bus Panel in Console View. Make sure that the meter for the hardware output you're using is showing a nice, hot level.

Second, there should be some kind of output level knob(s) on your interface. Is that cranked up as well? If there are output level meters on your interface, are they also showing a good strong level?

I use a 20W per channel power amp (honest, 1970's-style RMS, not this "intermittent peak power" stuff we often see on power amps now) with a pair of passive Event 20/20's, and I can turn my monitoring system up to the point where it's painful and neighbors will start throwing rocks at my windows.

Whatever powered monitors you have, provided that they are studio monitors from a reputable manufacturer, should be able to give you all you want and more.

[lapasoa]

I think that an adequate gain is achieved by your soundcard.

[Bristol_Jonesey]

I'm questioning why you need your monitors cranked "while tracking"?

Most of us don headphones while tracking to eliminate bleed.

Some clarification required regarding what you're trying to do

[T Boog]

Thanks guys & sorry, I shouldve gave more info. I have Rocket 5 powered monitors which are cranked, the interface output is cranked, windows is cranked, cakewalk shows cranked, the master bus is nearly cranked. When I play imported itunes mp3s, it's so loud I have to lower down but my tracks(incl midi tracks) are not loud enough for me. I was hoping there was a way to add volume between the master faders and monitors. I think Protools has a decible boost post master bus. Then u just take it off when it's time to master ur mix.

[msmcleod]

Have you checked your master output level (they're the ones with the red faders) ?

Click on your master bus, and check the levels in the inspector:



Also, keeping these at unity gain will ensure the volume you hear in Cakewalk is the volume you'll hear when you export as audio.

[T Boog]

Yeah, the master bus is up around unity. If I raise it anymore it causes clipping too. Maybe I do just need more powerful monitors. 

[Kalle Rantaaho]

There is something here that we're missing. I think we're looking somehow in the wrong direction. The size of the monitor speakers has nothing to do with the issue, that's for sure  (I assume they're Rokit 5's, not Rocket 5 ??).  The fact that such an option is mentioned at all makes me think there's a fundamental routing error or something. If the monitor speakers play mp3-files loud enough then they are able to play any audio equally loud.

Are you recording mainly MIDI? How? With a controller keyboard or hardware  synth? What synths? Or are you recording audio? With microphones or line in? You don't mention at all your audio interface input level. That's where the "true" loudness of the recorded audio signal is  determined.

How do the audio waveforms of the audio looks on the tracks. If you compare the waveform of a loud, imported mp3 to something you've recorded and find too quiet, how do they look? Do they almost  fill the track or are they thin? 

 

 

[John Vere]

I agree this thread I think is one of those that the question would be why are my songs quieter than commercial releases. 
Answer- learn about mastering I actually gave you one of the tools that you would try in my first post. Boost11. 
A brick wall limiter will raise you RMS level and put a cap on the peak level. In my signature is the link to my tutorials look for any on the topic of mastering or mixing 

Edited March 2, 2023 by John Vere

[Lord Tim]

16 hours ago, Tarrell Freeze said:

When I play imported itunes mp3s, it's so loud I have to lower down but my tracks(incl midi tracks) are not loud enough for me.

This is because those tracks are mastered. Whenever I drag in any commercially released tracks and overdub anything, I'll have to drop them by at least a good 6 to 12dB before I'm able to hear my overdubs properly, without clipping the outputs.

You may well need more beefy speakers, of course, but the balance thing in this case is certainly juggling tracking level volume with final mastered volume.

[57Gregy]

6 hours ago, Tarrell Freeze said:

Yeah, the master bus is up around unity. If I raise it anymore it causes clipping too. Maybe I do just need more powerful monitors. 

There may be some confusion in terms here, too. The Main outputs Mark is referring to are the sound device's outputs, not the Master Bus output. In this image, you can see the Master is routed to the Mains, my Focusrite audio interface, and that is set to 0.
What do you use to make sound? Your computer sound card or an audio interface designed for recording?
 

[Kalle Rantaaho]

1 hour ago, Lord Tim said:

This is because those tracks are mastered. Whenever I drag in any commercially released tracks and overdub anything, I'll have to drop them by at least a good 6 to 12dB before I'm able to hear my overdubs properly, without clipping the outputs.

You may well need more beefy speakers, of course, but the balance thing in this case is certainly juggling tracking level volume with final mastered volume.

For the most I agree, your answer is the most likely one. But nearly 30 years on the forum have tought me some signs that make me suspect the answer may hide behind a complete misunderstanding . If the OP thinks the output might be louder if he buys bigger speakers, and says the volume isn't sufficient for tracking, but doesn't tell about the interface and routing, the true answer can hide somewhere we don't come to think about :o/

 

[T Boog]

I appreciate all the advice guys. Btw, did I mention Im 70% deaf?

Just kidding. Anyway, I'm still pretty new to daw recording so there's surely things I'm overlooking or just unaware of. I'm about to record now, so I'll try to apply all this good advice and let yall know how it works out.

[AB77]

26 minutes ago, Tarrell Freeze said:

I appreciate all the advice guys. Btw, did I mention Im 70% deaf?

Just kidding. Anyway, I'm still pretty new to daw recording so there's surely things I'm overlooking or just unaware of. I'm about to record now, so I'll try to apply all this good advice and let yall know how it works out.

Some friendly advice from an old guy - seriously - don't have levels to loud in headphones or room - or there will likely be hearing loss, let alone tinnitus which is no fun at all.  It is more common than many might think.  Good luck to you and may you enjoy your tracking and final product!

Edited March 2, 2023 by AB7777

[T Boog]

1 minute ago, AB7777 said:

Some friendly advice from an old guy - seriously - don't have levels to loud in headphones or room - or there will likely be hearing loss, let along tinnitus which is no fun at all.  It is more common than many might think.  Good luck to you and may you enjoy your tracking and final product!

Thanks my friend but I'm pretty cautious esp with headphones. I was just wanting a bit more volume from my monitors so I can sometimes FEEL the music when I'm listening back. I like to mix as I go and hearing a loud, fat mix when I'm done with a session keeps me inspired. I keep the ca-2a leveler on the master which helps it sound polished & fat but I'd love a bit more volume(without cranking everything & clipping).

[Bristol_Jonesey]

20 minutes ago, Tarrell Freeze said:

Thanks my friend but I'm pretty cautious esp with headphones. I was just wanting a bit more volume from my monitors so I can sometimes FEEL the music when I'm listening back. I like to mix as I go and hearing a loud, fat mix when I'm done with a session keeps me inspired. I keep the ca-2a leveler on the master which helps it sound polished & fat but I'd love a bit more volume(without cranking everything & clipping).

It's been mentioned a few times but the issue you're perceving is almost certainly how you've got things set up in Cakewalk.

At the risk of repetition - what are you using for an interface and what driver are you using

Edited March 2, 2023 by Bristol_Jonesey

[mettelus]

On 2/28/2023 at 5:59 PM, msmcleod said:

Also check your low frequencies - there could be a bunch of low level information in some tracks that are inaudible, but pushing the signal to peak.

I find putting a high pass filter on most of my tracks solves this... just move the frequency up until you just hear a difference, then back it off again slightly.  Doing it at the track level means you get rid of far more of the frequencies you don't need.

Not sure if you checked this or not, but the most POWER in audio is at the low end. This advice is definitely good practice to consider.... even if you reduce the low end to mix the rest and add it back before mastering.