DE-ESSING FULL MIX

[Lord Tim]

I'd also be a little wary about using a "normal" EQ to get rid of 50/60Hz hum too. Aside from potentially gutting your kick drum and sub bass, most EQs introduce phase shifting around any boosted or cut frequencies, and for something like this, you'd need a fair bit of cut, and likely some stacked bands to really narrow in on the hum (and possibly even some extra EQ if there's overtones too).  You'd have better luck with a Linear Phase EQ which stops that from happening, but that also comes with is own gotchas, like pre-ringing, especially in the lower frequencies.

A de-noiser is definitely the way to go for any of this stuff, be it a plugin or in a standalone editor.  

[AB77]

Yes to above.  I have the Sony Noise Reduction 2.0 which is very good.   I believe it is in the latest Magix Sound Forge Professional version which is $149 along with  iZ's RX Elements, etc.

https://www.magix.com/us/sem/sound-forge-pro/

[mettelus]

3 hours ago, bitflipper said:

so if this is a one-off situation you could just use the trial.

^^ I forgot to mention this previously, but I believe iZotope RX, Adobe Audition, and Steinberg SpectraLayers all have functional trials, but RX has the most painless method to remove the software afterwards.

Side note: It is good practice to record an ambient lead in/out on tracks just in case noise reduction is needed. That way you will always have an ambient sample embedded into the track for post-production of the full frequency spectrum, especially if doing something like recording old songs from magnetic tape into a DAW.

[rayray]

On 2/18/2023 at 10:26 PM, Craig Anderton said:

If there's a section with hiss that's isolated, there are tools that can take a "noiseprint" of the hiss, and subtract it from the file. The best ones (e.g., iZotope Rx) aren't cheap, but one of these free options might do the job for you.

 

this is great! thanks!

[rayray]

On 2/22/2023 at 12:31 PM, Lord Tim said:

I'd also be a little wary about using a "normal" EQ to get rid of 50/60Hz hum too. Aside from potentially gutting your kick drum and sub bass, most EQs introduce phase shifting around any boosted or cut frequencies, and for something like this, you'd need a fair bit of cut, and likely some stacked bands to really narrow in on the hum (and possibly even some extra EQ if there's overtones too).  You'd have better luck with a Linear Phase EQ which stops that from happening, but that also comes with is own gotchas, like pre-ringing, especially in the lower frequencies.

A de-noiser is definitely the way to go for any of this stuff, be it a plugin or in a standalone editor.  

is there any plug-in that can isolate and just listen to the hum or hiss?  like maybe tell the frequency range with a 'knob' and see if it eliminates it?

[rayray]

On 2/22/2023 at 4:27 PM, mettelus said:

^^ I forgot to mention this previously, but I believe iZotope RX, Adobe Audition, and Steinberg SpectraLayers all have functional trials, but RX has the most painless method to remove the software afterwards.

Side note: It is good practice to record an ambient lead in/out on tracks just in case noise reduction is needed. That way you will always have an ambient sample embedded into the track for post-production of the full frequency spectrum, especially if doing something like recording old songs from magnetic tape into a DAW.

i did not have the option to do ambient or would have.  in fact that is all that was done in these recordings were ambient.  i'll have to post a before and after some time just to show what i was working with and what i got for results using source cassettes recorded on a one or two mic ambient setup turned up to 11 ... yeah... anyway, i recorded directly into a Zoom R24 Recorder and used a few things on that like EQ , cutoff etc. ,  reverb, and a few canned effects and it was amazing how much a difference it made bringing out things like vocals, cymbals, bass drums, bass and gave it depth. 

Edited March 9, 2023 by rayray
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[Bill Ruys]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:21 AM, bitflipper said:

A de-esser is not the right tool for this. What you need is a noise remover, which is something you're more likely to find in an audio editor rather than a DAW.

Mr bitflipper is 100% correct on this.  A de-esser is essentially a high-Q (narrow band) filter in front of a compressor.  It's looking for peaks in level within that narrow band, and compressing them.  The reason for this is so that the (typically high frequency) band is not being attenuated unless it crosses a threshold, because you don't want to roll off that band all the time, only when a sibilant jumps out.

So as the flip master says, it's totally the wrong tool for the job.  If you have a section at the beginning or end of the recording with silence that exhibits only the his, a learning noise reduction plugin would be best (as others have said).

One free plugin that does this is Blue Lab Audio Denoiser.

[sjoens]

On 2/22/2023 at 8:21 AM, bitflipper said:

Another one I've used that's pretty good and is popular around here is Sony's SoundForge, but I don't know what its current status is or its price. Back in the day I paid $100 for it, but that was quite awhile ago (I stopped using any Sony products after the infamous rootkit fiasco).  I wouldn't be surprised if they'd since replaced it with something newer and undoubtedly more expensive.

https://www.magix.com/us/music-editing/sound-forge/

$40 -$150

[AB77]

7 hours ago, sjoens said:

https://www.magix.com/us/music-editing/sound-forge/

$40 -$150

The nice think about Sound Forge Pro, which I recently bought for $99, is that it also includes other plugins that are useful in Cakewalk.   So, even if one does not use the editing in Sound Forge, the plugins I find are worth it.

[rayray]

21 hours ago, Bill Ruys said:

Mr bitflipper is 100% correct on this.  A de-esser is essentially a high-Q (narrow band) filter in front of a compressor.  It's looking for peaks in level within that narrow band, and compressing them.  The reason for this is so that the (typically high frequency) band is not being attenuated unless it crosses a threshold, because you don't want to roll off that band all the time, only when a sibilant jumps out.

So as the flip master says, it's totally the wrong tool for the job.  If you have a section at the beginning or end of the recording with silence that exhibits only the his, a learning noise reduction plugin would be best (as others have said).

One free plugin that does this is Blue Lab Audio Denoiser.

i do have about 3 sec of nothing but the hiss on one recording and low hum on another.  one mic was near a device that produced hum on the recording thru that mic,

i have eliminated a lot with EQ believe it or not but i can do better .

 

is the Blue Lab free or have a full functioning eval?

i only need it for a couple things right now and will buy it later when i am doing more stuff from other bands

 

RR

[Starship Krupa]

12 hours ago, rayray said:

i do have about 3 sec of nothing but the hiss on one recording and low hum on another

This is very good. With that, you can use one of the de-noisers that sample the noise and then nuke it.

I know that several fancy ones have already been mentioned, but I agree with what @mark skinner said about ReaFIR being very effective. It lets you sample the noise(s) you wish to remove, and then lets you adjust the strength, how drastic you want it to work.

The UI and workflow have a bit of a learning curve unless you watch or read a tutorial, but in the end, it's simple (use the Ctrl key when adjusting!). ReaFIR is an unsung signal processing powerhouse. In addition to noise removal, you can also set it up as a very surgical EQ, compressor, dynamic EQ, and frequency-specific noise gate.

With all of the degradation your signal has gone through, starting with being recorded on cassette, the highs might start well below the usual, so you might experiment with low (and high) pass filtering. Turn it down/up until you can hear it having an effect on the recorded audio, then dial it back a notch. Cakewalk's built-in Quadcurve and Sonitus EQ's can handle that with no problem.

As for actual de-essers, no, this is not what they're for. De-essers are designed to help when you have a singer or speaker who uses a lot of sibilance (lispy sounds). Recording and reproduction hardware and our ears are sensitive to sibilant sounds, and they can stand out in a mix in an irritating way. A traditional de-esser is a combination of EQ and compression stuck together in a single plug-in for ease of use. Some plug-in houses have over 100 FX in their product line and no de-esser, because it's really easy to build that function into a compressor plug-in.

They have their uses, I have a friend who sometimes uses one on cymbals to tame the harsh high end. If you want to try one, Lisp is a freeware favorite.

There are also de-essers that use a different process to accomplish sibilance reduction, like Airwindows' DeEss and DeBess.

[rayray]

I just called it a "de-esser" i guess because early on when i used Wavelab in the 80s and 90s, it had a "de-ess" setting and never learning the actual purpose for it i just thought that de-essers removed hiss-like sounds.  so i am not up on terminology really and am more a musician than a producer/recording engineer.  so have patience with me if i mis-label stuff.

thanks for the info on ReaFIR and Lisp!

I will definitely try them.  I can post a before and after of a song on here if that is something of interest of what i have done from raw cassettes so far.

you mentioned the cymbals, in some cases i like that "slashy" highs sound that you mention that the SM-57s get when you record cymbals.  not for everything but i have a use for it in some of my stuff.  i need to get recommendations on the budget-friendly cymbal mic(s) because my current drum mic setup doesn't have any.

Also, i am having trouble with CW trying to convert over from Cubase 12.   I know practice and hacking at it is how i learned Cubase.  but this is a different animal .

for example, i want to copy a portion of a song that the bass player hit the wrong note with another section (chorus) where he played it correctly.

i have tried to be intuitive trying to figure it out on CW but no luck.  In fact, with these "basement tapes" releases i will be needing to do this a lot.

can i get some quick start steps to do this because the documentation did not come up with this topic

thx much and hoping to jump over to BL 100% soon.  i have only experimented with it on three songs so far and it is taking me waaay too much time to do what i can do on Cubase in a few minutes.  But, i want to get up to speed and use CW now.  Especially with the Bandlab linkage!!

I downloaded and tried BlueLab's DeNoiser but found it to lower the overall gain trying to get the hiss out

RR

Edited March 13, 2023 by rayray
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[AB77]

rayray - 

Wishing you great success!  As to the bass part that has a problem but not in another section.  Is the tempo identical in both parts?  Are both parts identical except for the bass flaw?  Sometimes the great part can be copied and pasted into the bad part.  There are other variables though that can affect this, including what is before and after the part so it does not stick out as some abrupt action, and there are ways around that too!

Of course if the bass is on a totally separate track, cutting and pasting a good bass note in the song over the bad bass note, works as well.

[rayray]

5 hours ago, AB7777 said:

rayray - 

Wishing you great success!  As to the bass part that has a problem but not in another section.  Is the tempo identical in both parts?  Are both parts identical except for the bass flaw?  Sometimes the great part can be copied and pasted into the bad part.  There are other variables though that can affect this, including what is before and after the part so it does not stick out as some abrupt action, and there are ways around that too!

Of course if the bass is on a totally separate track, cutting and pasting a good bass note in the song over the bad bass note, works as well.

yes it will copy seamlessly.  i did it in Cubase already and you cannot even tell.  but don't have it figured out in CW yet.  i tried selecting a portion of the waveform then it started referring to sections and it started losing me. i didn't know if i had to use sections instead of the waveform or not.  but yes, the parts are identical and have no singing to complicate cut/paste of the chorus bass part that turned out to be about a measure.

also i had trouble switching back and forth between beats/measures timeline and minutes and seconds time over the waveform.  sorry i'm just learning CW terminology if that is not what it is called.

RR

 

i was able to get the looping which i use a lot to work. 

Edited March 13, 2023 by rayray