cldmrqs Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 Hi all, This may have been covered before, but I didn't find anything. Maybe someone can shine in why my output bounce is 6 dB lower in the final file. I will try to explain what is happening. Meanwhile, I have found a workaround which could help explaining what is going on, maybe. So, I'm mastering 8 songs in a Cakewalk session, each one imported on its own track and spread across on the timeline. I have one instance of Ozone 10 (EQ) on each track. Each track goes to the master output (bus set at 0, input, output etc). I have one instance of Ozone ( limiter) there, plus my Youlean Loudness pro meter after that. I set my levels etc so that I read, say -11LUFS roughly. All is good. I bounced each tracks via Export as a wav file. Then, I measured the levels of the bounced files in Youlean and I get pretty much a -6dB loss in levels. I am puzzled why. It is as if I do lose 6dB somewhere in the process going thru the master fader. OK, here's the work around now. I rerouted all the track outputs directly to my I/O instead of the master and placed an additional copy of my limiter instance (used on the master before) after each Instance of the track EQ and bounced again, and now the levels in the export files are good and identical to what I am metering in the session. What am I missing ? Hope I can get feedback on this. Thanks Claude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tim Posted January 19, 2023 Share Posted January 19, 2023 (edited) Go into Offset mode (look for the Offset button on the Mix module up in the Control Bar) - your control labels will get a + next to them. Do you see anything in there suggesting a -6dB cut anywhere along the way? Further to that, is your master bus going directly to your hardware outputs? If you import that master back into Cakewalk in a new project, does it still show -6dB? Just ruling out any other playback problems outside of CbB. It might be helpful to see a screenshot of your routing with the master bus expanded and all of the controls visible so we can rule a few things out. You definitely shouldn't be losing 6dB on a master bus, I use CbB for mastering all the time and it definitely should not do that, and does not do that for me. Edited January 20, 2023 by Lord Tim I'd forgotten the O keybinding was removed for Offset Mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cldmrqs Posted January 19, 2023 Author Share Posted January 19, 2023 Hey Lord Tim. Thanks for the follow up. Nup, the Offset is off, there is no automation whatsoever on the master and yes the output of the master is going to the interface. The strange thing I realized taking the picture is that the True peak is .1. It is supposed to read -.9. I don't measure that in the session and the output is not clipped ever. if I re-import the affected bounce, same result in the metering. It is not exactly 6dB as stated, because I am measuring LUFS but there is a noticeable difference. (see side by side pics). Does it help ? Attached pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Tim Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Yeah, nothing is sticking out as obvious from what you said and in the screenshots to me (maybe someone smarter than I am might have an idea?) The other suggestion I have, if this is real for you, is to post your .cwp for us to have a look at. You don't need audio in it, but it might help to look at the project itself to see what the routing is doing Failing that, the only other thing I can suggest is bypassing all of the plugins and seeing if what you're exporting lines up with what levels you expect it to be, and work backwards from there by enabling one at a time until you find the discrepancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cldmrqs Posted January 20, 2023 Author Share Posted January 20, 2023 I tried quite a few things, check all options, gain match off, inputs and outputs at 0, exported different ways, etc, etc, and it appears that as soon as I use the Ozone limiter on the master, I do get the 5-6dB loss. Metering is good but export is wrong. Weird !! Otherwise, same limiter (exact copy of) added on the track and going thru the master without the limiter, all is good. Very strange. So it's not the master in cause. Might be something I miss. Next is to try a different limiter I guess and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Richards Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 22 hours ago, cldmrqs said: Hey Lord Tim. Thanks for the follow up. Nup, the Offset is off, there is no automation whatsoever on the master and yes the output of the master is going to the interface. The strange thing I realized taking the picture is that the True peak is .1. It is supposed to read -.9. I don't measure that in the session and the output is not clipped ever. if I re-import the affected bounce, same result in the metering. It is not exactly 6dB as stated, because I am measuring LUFS but there is a noticeable difference. (see side by side pics). Does it help ? Attached pictures. Somebody help me. I don't have the cluster of 4 output and input gain and pan sliders, the stereo button, or the output 1+ button on my Master dialog box. Also, my mixes are painfully low, but are peaking out in Cakewalk. What am I doing wrong. Thank you, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
57Gregy Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 If I understand you correctly, set this to All. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Richards Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Well now, this is embarrassing. I always select All on Display on the bottom left, but my brain failed to compute the All on the top of the page. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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