marcL Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 59 minutes ago, Brian Walton said: 1). My understanding is they will rest after the 7 if it doesn't looks like you are a legit human and not abusing the system. Allowing to authorize to 3 USB sticks at the same time opens the door for misuse. I wish it was unlimited without intervention but think it is still better than the majority. The authorization system of most big players is terrible! I don't know how many hours I wasted with such stuff! But I agree that PA is really not the worst one in this area (they authorize all plugins at once, have a simple offline authorization, and if a machine goes belly up, you are not lost)! Yesterday I wanted to insert a plugin in CbB and immediately the system was hanging. I couldn't do nothing about it, I had to force a close of CbB. Then suddenly an error message of Waves appeared that the USB could not be opened. It seems I hit the wrong plugin (I have only 2 Waves one installed), so I was not aware what was happening. I may have lost an hour of my life! 😄 59 minutes ago, Brian Walton said: Those that fit in your box are the minority, who other than Melda? There are several small developers that have really quality plugins and a user-friendly authorization (like Toneboosters, Klanghelm, ...)! Melda: I don't get warm with their plugin interfaces and don't like their installation process (monolith). On the other hand they have a good authorization and update commitment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Brian Walton said: 1). My understanding is they will rest after the 7 if it doesn't looks like you are a legit human and not abusing the system. Allowing to authorize to 3 USB sticks at the same time opens the door for misuse. I wish it was unlimited without intervention but think it is still better than the majority. 2). Most people can't even hear it and only know this because the internet tells them this is the case. 3). I'd rather they cater to Windows users who are in fact the vast majority. 4). They have great pricing throughout the year as long as you get in the mailing list. They offer the exact same plugins as UAD for a tiny fraction of the price in sale. Those that fit in your box are the minority, who other than Melda? Staying outside the fanboyinsm/fangirlism bubble when something has a financial impact on my wallet as buying plugins that should be of some use for me I’d reply with: When a device has its authorization removed it’s removed and that’s it. There are many valid scenarios when one might exceed the 7 device removals limit and then one needs to wait another year or buy another copy for whatever mad reason… My CorelDRAW counts my device as removed when I remove it from my account page. A couple of PA plugins outside a sale cost as much as a lifetime CorelDRAW license. It’s obvious that due to the flawed nature of a hybrid online/semi-offline PA authorization process PA prefers to limit device removals. Of course it’s their own problem - not customer’s fault and one good reason for customers to avoid PA. That’s already been discussed elsewhere and having aliasing artifacts on one’s audio is not a desirable outcome, neither having a developer who ignores such problems. Being a Windows user myself I doubt why should one developer list an OS (MacOS in this case) as fully supported when that’s not the case. That’s alienating Mac users and that’s bad for PA’s business, but does Dirk really care about not alienating his userbase? Great pricing and zero innovation looks to be the very nature of most Francisco Partners affiliated businesses. And Melda is not my first idea to come when thinking about plugins that have good support, but PA is certainly one of the last ones in my list along with iZotope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rintoul Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Marina said: My thumbs down are a sign of (more or less) vocal disagreement with using of sealioning techniques to silence the discontent of PA. Sealioning, I have learned a new term! Just to be clear, I was not intending to sealion. Maybe it came across that way. I was not looking to shut down dialog nor to silence discontent of PA. Like Jesse G and LAGinz, I was interested in why people were so down on PA and Dirk in particular. Souterrain's comment did nothing to enlighten me. Your subsequent comments were more helpful. It allows me to form a more informed opinion and to determine whether what you describe is important to me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubdisciple Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I get that the weird perpetual sale/ voucher thing was a little annoying, but sadly, it seems to be an effective strategy for the many companies playing catchup with Waves. Their plugins are good. I'm caught between grabbing a few former maybe plugins i passed on in the past (the neve chwnnel strip and the 4000e) and "i rarely use the ones i already own" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Marina said: Staying outside the fanboyinsm/fangirlism bubble when something has a financial impact on my wallet as buying plugins that should be of some use for me I’d reply with: When a device has its authorization removed it’s removed and that’s it. There are many valid scenarios when one might exceed the 7 device removals limit and then one needs to wait another year or buy another copy for whatever mad reason… My CorelDRAW counts my device as removed when I remove it from my account page. A couple of PA plugins outside a sale cost as much as a lifetime CorelDRAW license. It’s obvious that due to the flawed nature of a hybrid online/semi-offline PA authorization process PA prefers to limit device removals. Of course it’s their own problem - not customer’s fault and one good reason for customers to avoid PA. That’s already been discussed elsewhere and having aliasing artifacts on one’s audio is not a desirable outcome, neither having a developer who ignores such problems. Being a Windows user myself I doubt why should one developer list an OS (MacOS in this case) as fully supported when that’s not the case. That’s alienating Mac users and that’s bad for PA’s business, but does Dirk really care about not alienating his userbase? Great pricing and zero innovation looks to be the very nature of most Francisco Partners affiliated businesses. And Melda is not my first idea to come when thinking about plugins that have good support, but PA is certainly one of the last ones in my list along with iZotope. You are seriously going to compare Corel as some sort of good example of how to offer value to customers? I'm a customer (also have DRAW but never registered it) Corel has annoying startup "buy the latest version at some crazy pricing" set as a default across the product line. The updates in each version which cost an arm and a leg are usually quite small. And you certainly can't authorize it to 3 USB sticks (which could be abused by giving them out to friends and using the software mutiple times). With Corel I'm constantly having to de-authorize a computer and authorize another one. As an owner of many machines, needing to reset 7 authorizations (i.e. 7 truly different devices - when USB is an option for them - and 3 can be simultaneous) more frequently than a year would be excessive no matter how you want to look at it. You can deauthorize one computer and then reauthorize that same computer over and over again and it does not count aganst a 2nd machine in the "7 limitation." Once you understand how the system works you would have to be in a minority situation to need more than that every single year. They would simply tell you to authorize to a USB (two or 3) and to start moving that around if you are upgrading your computer 8 times in a single year. The plugins work perfectly fine on a MAC, they simply are not re-programed to utalize aditinoal capabilies of a very specifc chip set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leandro Álvarez Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 Just now, Brian Walton said: The plugins work perfectly fine on a MAC, they simply are not re-programed to utalize aditinoal capabilies of a very specifc chip set. Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 2 hours ago, marled said: There are several small developers that have really quality plugins and a user-friendly authorization (like Toneboosters, Klanghelm, ...)! Melda: I don't get warm with their plugin interfaces and don't like their installation process (monolith). On the other hand they have a good authorization and update commitment. Love Toneboosters. Klanghelm is cool too, but all those plugins are really old at this point. Melda - the new interfaces (released in v15??) are improved. I agree not the greatest, but the trade off is fully scalable and low CPU consumption. And I actually like the install process once I got used to it. The computer remembers what I installed and hi-lights those for me, then you can delete all the old ones in a second within the plugin and install the new and everything stays authorized. 11 minutes ago, dubdisciple said: I get that the weird perpetual sale/ voucher thing was a little annoying, but sadly, it seems to be an effective strategy for the many companies playing catchup with Waves. Their plugins are good. I'm caught between grabbing a few former maybe plugins i passed on in the past (the neve chwnnel strip and the 4000e) and "i rarely use the ones i already own" It is extremely effective. People seem to have some sort of issue with how rich Dirk is. At the same time they have offered some of the best deals on the market as long as you play the game and time it right. When has WAVES ever at a "pick our best plugins" 4 for $50. Yeah, never. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Walton Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Leandro Álvarez said: Nope Are you playing in the supported sandbox and saying they literally do not run? macOS 12 down to macOS 10.11 Intel, or Apple Silicon (except for AAX) architecture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marina Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, Brian Walton said: You are seriously going to compare Corel as some sort of good example of how to offer value to customers? I'm a customer (also have DRAW but never registered it) Corel has annoying startup "buy the latest version at some crazy pricing" set as a default across the product line. The updates in each version which cost an arm and a leg are usually quite small. And you certainly can't authorize it to 3 USB sticks (which could be abused by giving them out to friends and using the software mutiple times). With Corel I'm constantly having to de-authorize a computer and authorize another one. As an owner of many machines, needing to reset 7 authorizations (i.e. 7 truly different devices - when USB is an option for them - and 3 can be simultaneous) more frequently than a year would be excessive no matter how you want to look at it. You can deauthorize one computer and then reauthorize that same computer over and over again and it does not count aganst a 2nd machine in the "7 limitation." Once you understand how the system works you would have to be in a minority situation to need more than that every single year. They would simply tell you to authorize to a USB (two or 3) and to start moving that around if you are upgrading your computer 8 times in a single year. The plugins work perfectly fine on a MAC, they simply are not re-programed to utalize aditinoal capabilies of a very specifc chip set. I don’t remember to have mentioned Corel as a positive example. But the very moment when one finds out that even Corel has unlimited number of de-authorizations when PA’s plugins don’t… And as far as I see M1 users avoid incompatible plugins, because they perform slowly under Rosetta. I wouldn’t call that “work perfectly fine”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 57 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said: Sealioning, I have learned a new term! Just to be clear, I was not intending to sealion. Can you provide peer reviewed evidence that you have actually learned this. I'm keen to understand if this assertion is fact based or whether you are just gaslighting. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rintoul Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, paulo said: Can you provide peer reviewed evidence that you have actually learned this. I'm keen to understand if this assertion is fact based or whether you are just gaslighting. My brother is my peer. If I explain sealioning to him and he in fact verifies that I have the correct definition, is that sufficient peer reviewed evidence that I have learned what the term means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rintoul Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Marina said: And as far as I see M1 users avoid incompatible plugins, because they perform slowly under Rosetta. I wouldn’t call that “work perfectly fine”. I don't have an M1 machine so I can't verify this but this announcement from PA, https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/news/article/items/m-1-apple-silicon.html, seems to indicate that a good block of PA plugins do support M1 natively. If all PA is saying is that their plugins work fine under Rosetta then that would be serious misinformation. But it does not appear to me that this is the case. I would be interested to know what percentage of PA plugins are in fact currently M1 native. Edited January 10, 2023 by Doug Rintoul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souterrain Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I'm quite surprised my comment was seen as so negative. The guy is called Dirk, he's constantly trolling with his deals and changing conditions. So "dirk move" is a bit of a pun, nothing more. I found it quite ironic, that he leaves the company with a deal while suspending the monthly voucher in the process. I do have my problems with him though. I am a member of his facebook group and his actions there were more than questionable. He published private messages of complaining users to openly ridicule with his crownies. I am not a fan of the word toxic, but that behavior IMO clearly qualifies. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbl4311 Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 So it's just the bx_ plugs on this sale? Already have most of those. Only issue I ever had with Dirk/PA was bx_2098 owners were supposed to get a deal on the Amek console. That upgrade deal never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulo Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 24 minutes ago, Doug Rintoul said: My brother is my peer. If I explain sealioning to him and he in fact verifies that I have the correct definition, is that sufficient peer reviewed evidence that I have learned what the term means? Well if someone who is related to you said it was so, then who could possibly argue with that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Rintoul Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 minute ago, paulo said: Well if someone who is related to you said it was so, then who could possibly argue with that? Good point. Not my brother then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubdisciple Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 I also struggle to understand why people get mad at software companies instead of apple when they intentionally flex their power by forcing developers to jump every few months to make plugins compatible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leandro Álvarez Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Brian Walton said: Are you playing in the supported sandbox and saying they literally do not run? macOS 12 down to macOS 10.11 Intel, or Apple Silicon (except for AAX) architecture You are the one saying they work fine They do not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 8 hours ago, Fwrend said: What's not to like about a $12.50 plugin? I've got the SSL 4000 E, AMEK 9099, Crispytuner & Limiter True Peak in my basket at the moment. One click away from adding 4 fine products to my growing collection of unused plugins! Post of the week. The $12.50 plugin is often referred to as a no brainer which is now for me as brain dead or head up my *****. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted January 10, 2023 Share Posted January 10, 2023 29 minutes ago, dubdisciple said: I also struggle to understand why people get mad at software companies instead of apple when they intentionally flex their power by forcing developers to jump every few months to make plugins compatible. Of course for Windows 11 one needs the TPM to use that fine OS. All it will take is for developers to drop W10 support and it will be a great cure for GAS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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