Jump to content
Christian Jones

Korg Z1 synth works as MIDI controller w/ Kontakt in standalone, but can't trigger Kontakt in CbB

Recommended Posts

So I'm getting a Novation SL61 MKIII controller in a few weeks, until then I just have this Korg Z1 synth that I've been trying to use as a midi controller. It is connected through the midi interface portion of the RME 9632 audio interface. It triggers Kontakt et al w/ zero problems in standalone mode, but no matter what I can not get it to do the same in CbB. 

I have everything in CbB set up right--the same relative setup as for my previous M-Audio Oxygen 61 which worked fine:

In "Preferences" Hdsp9632 (the RME midi interface) is checked as the midi input/output device. 

The midi track in question is set to the same channel 1 (I've tried other channels too) has the Korg, and the output is set to Kontakt, and the midi channel on that midi track is set to "1: Kontakt 5", and "Input Echo" is engaged on that track. I'm able to trigger Kontakt via this midi track's piano roll. 

The corresponding audio track is routed correctly w/ "Kontakt" as the input and "Master" as the output and when triggering via the piano roll on the midi track it outputs on the audio track as expected. But no matter what the Korg will not send data to the midi track - no action from the meters when pressing keys. 

I noticed in Preferences->MIDI->Playback and Recording, the "MME" driver mode shows "MME" but is grayed out and I don't recall if that's always the case or not, but it shows as follows:

Driver Mode: MME (Close all projects to edit) 

But somehow I don't think that's the problem  and anyway the midi routing in the Korg is pretty simple; you just select the midi channel pretty much, and again, it triggers standalone vsts fine. Granted, this is Korg Z1 is from '97, but I don't think that matters, I mean if it wasn't going to work as a midi controller why does it work in Standalone mode? I have one other midi interface, an old MIDI Sport, and it won't work through that either. However, I'm able to trigger the internal sounds of the Korg in CbB via either of those midi interfaces; I just can't get the Korg to work as a controller. Any ideas why? It's just a temp solution anyway, but it'd be cool if it could work. I'm maybe more baffled as to why it doesn't work than I am pissed that I can't use it this way in the meantime lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

something to try

  • Shutdown CbB
  • rename %appdata%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\TTSSEQ.ini
  • Restart CbB and review MIDI I/O  device settings in preferences

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks man I'll give that a try when  I get home. Sorry I know we went over this recently, but in renaming "TTSSEQ.INI" do I just rename it to anything - like, "somethingelse.ini" - would that do? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Christian Jones said:

Thanks man I'll give that a try when  I get home. Sorry I know we went over this recently, but in renaming "TTSSEQ.INI" do I just rename it to anything - like, "somethingelse.ini" - would that do? 

Well I'm not Steve, but I think the answer is that when you rename it, CbB won't recognize it, and therefore create a new TTSSEQ.INI file. In similar situations, I add an X to original file name so I can recognize a file name that's changed, in case I have to revert to it.

Hey, what do you think of the Z1?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

Well I'm not Steve, but I think the answer is that when you rename it, CbB won't recognize it, and therefore create a new TTSSEQ.INI file. In similar situations, I add an X to original file name so I can recognize a file name that's changed, in case I have to revert to it.

Hey, what do you think of the Z1?

Thanks Craig. The Z1, it's the only hardware synth I own, bought it in '97 around when it came out for $1700 new! I basically grew up w/ it and I'll never part w/ it. It's got a sound that's for sure, I'd say the sound is spacey and resonant. It does this thing called "Zoop" which is basically an old school-ish keyboard beat thing where it's not drums, but a beat it makes through sound design, you know what I'm talking about, holding down one key and it plays, and it's dope, and I've sampled it out to play w/ Kontakt.  When I got it I could have got any synth and workstations were all the rage, the XP-50 and Triton on the top at the time , but I wanted something that didn't have all those band sounds or sequencer, but was like an old school keyboard, and the whole digital modeling of analog synths was the rage. I had the Nord Lead II for a second and sent it back to get the Z1. OK so maybe it hasn't exactly appreciated, as you can get one used for a few hundred, but I don't give a f man. Has a cool X/Y pad too. Why, do you have one?

Here goes an old beat I made w/ it, all Z1 sounds, and it's not mixed or anything, just played live, and it's somewhat repetitive because it's meant to be rapped over. Well, you asked man.. 😎

And when I can I'll try Steve's suggestion.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, scook said:

something to try

  • Shutdown CbB
  • rename %appdata%\Cakewalk\Cakewalk Core\TTSSEQ.ini
  • Restart CbB and review MIDI I/O  device settings in preferences

I tried this and still it didn't work, the Z1 can control midi vst in Standalone mode but will not do it through CbB even after renaming the TTSSEQ.ini file and re-selecting the proper midi parameters. Weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you arm the midi track for Record, and then hit the transport Record button, (or hit the letter 'R' on your computer keyboard), then play notes on your Z1, if any midi data is coming through, you should see it drawn on the midi track as you are recording, and after you hit Stop (or the space bar on your computer keyboard), that midi data should still be visible on the midi track that is routed to the Kontakt instance, and your Z1 for input.  I thought maybe just seeing if any midi data is getting recorded would be a reasonable place to start.

Additionally - as a separate test, if you open the Kontakt instance, in your project, there should be a keyboard at the bottom of the Kontakt instance.  If you do not see it, then click

If you arm the midi track for Record, and then hit the transport Record button, (or hit the letter 'R' on your computer keyboard), then play notes on your Z1, if any midi data is coming through, you should see it drawn on the midi track as you are recording, and after you hit Stop (or the space bar on your computer keyboard), that midi data should still be visible on the midi track that is routed to the Kontakt instance, and your Z1 for input.  I thought maybe just seeing if any midi data is getting recorded would be a reasonable place to start.

Additionally - as a separate test, if you open the Kontakt instance, there should be a keyboard at the bottom of the Kontakt instance.  If you do not see it, then look at the top of the Kontakt instance window, and you will see a round toothed gear, that is for setting, and to the right of that is an icon/button that looks like a multi-pane window - and THAT is what you want to click on - the little arrow at the bottom right corner of that icon/button.  That will open up a little menu of options for what is displayed - like the Output Section, etc.  One of those options is for displaying a keyboard at the bottom of the Kontakt instance.

Anyways, you can test whether or not you get output from Kontakt, coming out of that instance's associated audio tracks, by clicking on notes on that keyboard, using your mouse.  It's just a validation that you have a working instance of Kontakt, able to actually produce sound when notes are triggered.  If it doesn't produce sound on the associated audio tracks, then you have an issue between the Kontakt instance (or one of multiple instruments in the instance), and the associated audio tracks.  If, on the other hand, you DO hear the appropriate sounds coming from the audio tracks, when using the mouse to play notes on the Kontakt instance's keyboard, then that part of it all is OK, and there is some issue with the Z1, or something like the output midi channel on the midi track being different than the midi channel the Kontakt instrument is set to.

I suppose you could also double-check to make sure you don't have something like Port B instead of Port A (each midi Port gets its own distinct 16 midi channels, and there can be Ports A, B, C, and D available to pick from).

You should have:

1) your Z1 checked in Preferences as a valid midi input device

2) The Z1 transpose function should be set to match playable notes in the Kontakt instance (like you wouldn't want to have the Z1 transposed down several octaves when the Kontakt instrument doesn't have playable notes that low, etc...)

3) A Kontakt instance with at least one loaded instrument (if only 1 instrument, then it will automatically be set to receive and respond to notes on midi channel 1)

4) A midi track with its output set to the Kontakt instance you are trying to trigger notes from.  Input can be set to None, Omni, or specifically to your Z1 (doesn't have to be set to the Z1).  If your Z1 is left to its default, it will transmit on midi channel one.  You can always FORCE the midi channel output from the midi track to be whatever midi channel exactly matches the midi channel for the desired instrument loaded into the Kontakt instance, by first setting the midi output for the midi track to the desired Kontakt instance, and then setting the Midi Output Channel for that midi track to the desired midi channel - this setting is immediately below the FX Bin on the midi track, in either the Track Inspector, or in Console View.  If the Midi Output Channel is set to match the correct midi channel that the instrument in the Kontakt instance will respond to, then it doesn't matter what midi channel your Z1 is set to, because Cakewalk will change it in any midi data output from that track, to match the Midi Output Channel.

5)  If this is an existing project, make sure you haven't accidentally switched which midi port you connected the Z1 to the computer with, because that will cause issues.  You ALWAYS want to make sure you keep track of which midi devices are connected to which midi ports on the computer - I ALWAYS leave them connected, and if I ever do need to reconnect them, I ALWAYS follow a little map I made for myself, to ensure they are always plugged into the computer using the same midi ports.  If you are not sure if this is the case - then I suggest not selecting specific midi devices as the Midi Input for your midi track(s), but instead, just specify Omni.

6) I don't actually HAVE anything for number 6, I just wanted to end on an even number.  I quite honestly do not know if I have covered everything I meant to - it is coming up on 2 AM, and my brain has left the building, so this is as far as I go this evening.

I hope something in the above not only makes some sense, but maybe also WORKS to get you past your present issues with getting Kontakt sounds to play, using your Z1.

Best of it all, and good luck :)

Bob Bone

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He wrote that he can trigger Kontakt from the Piano Roll, so this is is between the synth and CbB. 

Maybe CbB is filtering out input data, for some reason?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check that in Preferences/Midi/Playback and recording the Record Notes box is not unchecked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, JoseC said:

He wrote that he can trigger Kontakt from the Piano Roll, so this is is between the synth and CbB. 

Maybe CbB is filtering out input data, for some reason?

DOH!  That would have saved me some typing - wish I had read and retained that in his post prior to my authoring that 'book' of a post.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys. Yeah I've tried everything here and the Z1 just won't work as a MIDI controller in CbB. But now I'm wondering if it's not a setting issue, but some kind of error in CbB. I've had these weird errors before that don't announce themselves in a popup or crash, but random stuff just stops working for no reason when I *know* I have things setup/routed properly. I say this because now I'm having another problem w/ CbB freezing when creating a new project and in existing projects, where as soon as I add Kontakt 5.8.1 and open it's GUI, CbB freezes and I can recreate this every time. So I guess I'll create a new thread on that problem. But really there's no reason this Z1 shouldn't be working as controller so I think something is broken in CbB maybe, idk. I know this freezing thing when opening Kontakt's GUI is a new issue and one I haven't had until upgrading to Windows 10 recently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just tried to trigger Massive and FM8 w/ the Z1 as midi controller, just to see if maybe something was wrong w/ Kontakt, and I couldn't trigger those either, though they all played fine via their own GUI keyboard and via CbB's piano roll; just not the Z1 lol. So yeah it's not gonna work. I'll have a proper Novation controller in a few weeks so not the end of the world or anything but man this kind of thing drives me nuts, just not working for no reason lol but yeah it's not happening.  Still learned a bunch of good tips here though for next time.. there's always a next time is there not 😢

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please detail exactly what your midi input devices are set in preferences, and also exactly what you are setting for the midi track's Input, and also the Midi Output Channel for the midi track (if set in the parameter - right under the FX bin on the midi track).

Bob Bone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I am curious about that, too. If you had any other midi device you could test if this is actually a problem with just the Z1. Did you check what I told you about not being filtering notes in midi preferences? Does the Z1 mod wheel or any other controller data get recorded? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, JoseC said:

Yes, I am curious about that, too. If you had any other midi device you could test if this is actually a problem with just the Z1. Did you check what I told you about not being filtering notes in midi preferences? Does the Z1 mod wheel or any other controller data get recorded? 

Yeah I tried that, and the "Notes" box was already checked along w/ that list of other boxes. In fact, I checked/unchecked all those other boxes listed w/ the "Notes" box and tested just to see what would happen to no avail. Lol actually I just sold my M-Audio Oxygen 61 keyboard in anticipation of getting the Novation and was just gonna use this Z1 as a controller in the meantime, so no other controller to test w/ at the moment or would've. I'm gonna laugh if the Novation doesn't work when it gets here lol. No data from the Z1 is being recognized by CbB, not when arming the midi track for recording or otherwise; no keystrokes nor modwheel is recognized. 

Edited by Christian Jones

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Robert Bone said:

Please detail exactly what your midi input devices are set in preferences, and also exactly what you are setting for the midi track's Input, and also the Midi Output Channel for the midi track (if set in the parameter - right under the FX bin on the midi track).

Bob Bone

Hi Robert, well in my very first post you can see exactly how I have everything set up, starting from the third paragraph. Pretty sure I have everything set up right; it's set up the same way it was for my M-Audio Oxygen except the input on the Midi track is now set to the midi interface input the Z1 is hooked up to for channel 1. The Z1 can trigger Kontakt in standalone mode through this midi interface so I know the midi interface works. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Christian Jones said:

Hi Robert, well in my very first post you can see exactly how I have everything set up, starting from the third paragraph. Pretty sure I have everything set up right; it's set up the same way it was for my M-Audio Oxygen except the input on the Midi track is now set to the midi interface input the Z1 is hooked up to for channel 1. The Z1 can trigger Kontakt in standalone mode through this midi interface so I know the midi interface works. 

Have you tried all the possible input ports in that track? I don't know how many input ports you have in your interface, maybe CbB doesn't assign numbers to them as expected. Did you try setting input channel to Omni or None in that track?

Have you tried with a new project and track? Maybe your project or project template is corrupted somehow.

Have you got any other program running at the same time that might use your midi driver? Close all apps, restart CbB and check.

At this point, if none of the above show any midi arriving into CbB, I would reinstall CbB. If the Z1 is working fine with standalone synths, while its input does not even show in any midi activity indicator in CbB, I don't think that any other controller will work, either. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, JoseC said:

Have you tried all the possible input ports in that track? I don't know how many input ports you have in your interface, maybe CbB doesn't assign numbers to them as expected. Did you try setting input channel to Omni or None in that track?

Have you tried with a new project and track? Maybe your project or project template is corrupted somehow.

Have you got any other program running at the same time that might use your midi driver? Close all apps, restart CbB and check.

At this point, if none of the above show any midi arriving into CbB, I would reinstall CbB. If the Z1 is working fine with standalone synths, while its input does not even show in any midi activity indicator in CbB, I don't think that any other controller will work, either. 

I, too, am a bit confused why this would be happening with your setup - it seems like a settings and/or a device issue, that is either not working right, or is not configured right.

I see you mention currently running Windows 10.  I looked at the RME site for any drivers for that interface, and maybe I am missing the boat, but is this interface even supported anymore?  If so, I don't seem able to select your interface on the drivers download page.  IF this link is the correct one, you please tell me what I need to do to pull up available drivers for your model of interface, for ANY version of Windows, let alone Windows 10. 

(https://www.rme-audio.de/en/downloads/driver_updates_readme_hdsp.php

When you have Cakewalk running, you should see a little keyboard icon in the Windows 10 System Tray (bottom right corner of your display monitor - you may need to expand the display of items in the System Tray, by clicking on the arrow that points up).  Anyways, when you trigger notes on the Z1, do you see any little tiny light turning on and off on that little music keyboard icon?  (the little music keyboard icon is supposed to show midi activity, so when notes are triggered, it should have a little red activity indicator light go on and off on that keyboard icon - a bit to the left of the center of the keyboard icon).  I see this turning on and off when I play notes on the Roland A-800 Pro midi controller I currently have hooked up to the computer using a USB cable - I do not know if connecting your Z1 through your RME card using a standard midi connector would also result in that midi activity indicator light go on and off - just because I do not know if that midi activity app in the system tray works for old-school midi cable connected devices, such as your Z1.

I had mentioned earlier a suggestion of designating Omni or None on the midi track's Input, and I am unsure of whether or not you have  tried running this way.  I saw where you indicated it is set to something other than Omni or None, so please try changing to one of those.   If set to Omni, the midi track should send ANY midi data received, to the Kontakt instance.  

In any case - it is a good thing you have a new controller/keyboard coming, so this issue shouldn't persist beyond when they new device arrives.

Bob Bone

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Robert Bone said:

I, too, am a bit confused why this would be happening with your setup - it seems like a settings and/or a device issue, that is either not working right, or is not configured right.

I see you mention currently running Windows 10.  I looked at the RME site for any drivers for that interface, and maybe I am missing the boat, but is this interface even supported anymore?  If so, I don't seem able to select your interface on the drivers download page.  IF this link is the correct one, you please tell me what I need to do to pull up available drivers for your model of interface, for ANY version of Windows, let alone Windows 10. 

(https://www.rme-audio.de/en/downloads/driver_updates_readme_hdsp.php

When you have Cakewalk running, you should see a little keyboard icon in the Windows 10 System Tray (bottom right corner of your display monitor - you may need to expand the display of items in the System Tray, by clicking on the arrow that points up).  Anyways, when you trigger notes on the Z1, do you see any little tiny light turning on and off on that little music keyboard icon?  (the little music keyboard icon is supposed to show midi activity, so when notes are triggered, it should have a little red activity indicator light go on and off on that keyboard icon - a bit to the left of the center of the keyboard icon).  I see this turning on and off when I play notes on the Roland A-800 Pro midi controller I currently have hooked up to the computer using a USB cable - I do not know if connecting your Z1 through your RME card using a standard midi connector would also result in that midi activity indicator light go on and off - just because I do not know if that midi activity app in the system tray works for old-school midi cable connected devices, such as your Z1.

I had mentioned earlier a suggestion of designating Omni or None on the midi track's Input, and I am unsure of whether or not you have  tried running this way.  I saw where you indicated it is set to something other than Omni or None, so please try changing to one of those.   If set to Omni, the midi track should send ANY midi data received, to the Kontakt instance.  

In any case - it is a good thing you have a new controller/keyboard coming, so this issue shouldn't persist beyond when they new device arrives.

Bob Bone

 

My main controller is a twenty year old Kawai K5000S synth conected to an ancient usb MOTU MidiexpressXT interface and its activity shows in the Windows 10 system tray midi  activity icon. So does a usb midi cable connected to the DIN midi ports of my Tascam audio interface. I have currently six devices in total that send midi data to my computer and all show in the system tray with the latest W10, CbB and Komplete 12 updates, including Kontakt, Massive and FM8. I would bet that considering what he says, other controller won't make a difference. I could lose, though. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One other thing to check is the Control Surface mapping (Preferences/MIDI/Control Surfaces). When MIDI devices are added or removed, the In Ports and Out Ports can get scrambled. If any of these Control Surface In Ports are set to your Korg, they will effectively intercept all the MIDI data and you'll get the symptoms you're describing. This catches me occasionally and I always seem to forget about it :(

ControlSurface.JPG.9646e211777649dca7556388af8841e7.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×