Sonar 8.5 Producer: Cakewalk TTS1 Audio Suddenly Disappears

[Lord Tim]

35 minutes ago, Annabelle said:

The keyboard I have is an Akai MPK25. I don't think it's faulty, because it works with other instruments. Here's an example project with Cakewalk TTS1.

There's Always Tomorrow.cwp 648.68 kB · 1 download

Just looking at this now.

The first thing I noticed was TTS-1 crashed. 🙄 But after that it opened and I got no sound. Dim Solo was enabled for the project but that didn't affect anything. When I opened up the TTS-1 GUI, I noticed the master output was set to 0. So that's likely why this had gone silent. Now let's find out why it's doing that.

Edited August 17, 2022 by Lord Tim

[Lord Tim]

OK, what I think is happening is you have a controller applied to the TTS-1 Master volume slider, and it's either changing or setting it to zero when you play the song.

See if this helps:

Open up the TTS-1 synth itself, find the Master Volume control and right-click it. In the dialogue box that pops up, click the Clear button. Then set the Master Volume to maximum (127).

If I'm right, the project should play every time.

[Byron Dickens]

TTS1 is obsolete and problematic. Best to move on.

[Annabelle]

27 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

OK, what I think is happening is you have a controller applied to the TTS-1 Master volume slider, and it's either changing or setting it to zero when you play the song.

See if this helps:

Open up the TTS-1 synth itself, find the Master Volume control and right-click it. In the dialogue box that pops up, click the Clear button. Then set the Master Volume to maximum (127).

If I'm right, the project should play every time.

I'm scrolling through all the controllers with JAWS, but every time I press the "Right Mouse Button" (Numpad Multiply), JAWS seems to say that the controller I'm on is "10, and it's pointing to "Pan Part 01". Now I'm confused!

[Lord Tim]

Just now, Annabelle said:

I'm scrolling through all the controllers with JAWS, but every time I press the "Right Mouse Button" (Numpad Multiply), JAWS seems to say that the controller I'm on is "10, and it's pointing to "Pan Part 01". Now I'm confused!

This might be tricky for JAWS to see. My nephew is blind and has similar frustrations getting around with screen readers, so I sympathise!

I'm not sure how JAWS will see the tabbing layout of the controls, but the Master Fader is the very last slider in the GUI, if that helps at all.

[Annabelle]

25 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

This might be tricky for JAWS to see. My nephew is blind and has similar frustrations getting around with screen readers, so I sympathise!

I'm not sure how JAWS will see the tabbing layout of the controls, but the Master Fader is the very last slider in the GUI, if that helps at all.

I'm not even sure where that would be when JAWS seems to point in a direction other than the right one.

[User 905133]

I am using CbB, and several times I resaved the one you uploaded with the Master Slider in  TTS-1 up full and when I reloaded it, the medley played.  Its a long shot, but it might work--provided (1) there is nothing in your setup that is sending it back to zero and (2) TTS-1 in Sonar 8.5 works the same way. 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by User 905133
edits

[Lord Tim]

Yeah it's playing for me too, however it looks like there's something that's getting mixed up with the CC event that's controlling the Master Volume. It should be CC 3 in this case, but I managed to get it into a state where it was resetting to 0 each time, and the only way to fix it was to clear the controller number from TTS-1 itself.

Somewhere in the project is some rogue CC data which is affecting the slider in certain circumstances.

What I might be inclined to do is Select All events in the timeline, then go up to Edit > Select > By Filter > and have a tick ONLY in the Control checkbox, pressing OK and then pressing Delete. That will remove all the controller data.

The only issue is that if the Master Volume is down, you won't hear the synth at all until that's turned up, which would require JAWS somehow getting to that control... and if it could do that, then my earlier solution would be much easier to do.

The other option I can think of is if someone who still has 8.5 installed could open the project, clear the Controller binding from the Master Volume in TTS-1 and re-save it and send it to Annabelle, that would at least get her back up and running with this project.

[User 905133]

Looks like I have SONAR 5, 6, and 8.5 on my Win 10 PC (in addition to X1 and/or X3).  I might also still have them on an XP SP3 PC (not X3).

I took a quick look at the CCs.  There's a bunch of CC121 and CC64 in the beginning. Later on I saw RPN PB Sens. several times preceding Wheel. 

I have heard of JAWS, but no idea what goes on under the hood.  Could that be automating TTS-1's Master Volume on its own (independent of what on the tracks)? 

Could the version/build of TTS-1 make a difference?  32-bit TTS-1 (XP) v. 64-bit TTS-1 (Win 10)? 

37 minutes ago, Lord Tim said:

. . . the only way to fix it was to clear the controller number from TTS-1 itself.

Somewhere in the project is some rogue CC data which is affecting the slider in certain circumstances.

What I might be inclined to do is Select All events in the timeline, then go up to Edit > Select > By Filter > and have a tick ONLY in the Control checkbox, pressing OK and then pressing Delete. That will remove all the controller data.

The only issue is that if the Master Volume is down, you won't hear the synth at all until that's turned up, which would require JAWS somehow getting to that control... and if it could do that, then my earlier solution would be much easier to do.

The other option I can think of is if someone who still has 8.5 installed could open the project, clear the Controller binding from the Master Volume in TTS-1 and re-save it and send it to Annabelle, that would at least get her back up and running with this project.

 

[User 905133]

I seem to be getting something consistent with 8.5 on older Win10Pro PC.  

• Condition 1: Loaded Annabelle's version. Cleared CC3 assignment on Master Fader in TTS-1. Slider up full. Saved using Save As (renamed).
  • Upon loading this version, slider is still up full, but TTS-1 doesn't sound.
  • Pressing play (I am using the spacebar) a second time kicks TTS-1 into playing.
• Condition 2: Loaded Annabelle's version. 
  • Upon loading this version, slider is down, and TTS-1 doesn't sound.
  • After slider is moved up and spacebar is pressed once to start play, no sound.
  • Pressing spacebar a second time kick TTS-1 into playing again.

Edited August 18, 2022 by User 905133
removed speculation about RTZ

[John Vere]

On 8/12/2022 at 10:33 AM, Cactus Music said:

Well 64 is sustain and set to off so that' is OK, The 121 set to Zero is All Controllers Off so that is also OK. 

I guess another experiment would be to insert other vst instruments to replace the TTS-1 and see if the issue remains.  

I know this also might be hard for you do easily,  but if you Open the TTS-1 properties or Graphic User Interface can you tell if the main output is all the way up? And if you click on a pre view button does it make sound? 

The other thing to be aware of is other VST instruments that have Midi output enabled looping back and causing issues if a midi track has it's input set to None and Omni. At least I think it's None. So if you make sure no other VST's in the project have Midi output enabled and change the midi tracks input to your keyboard controller this would rule that out. 

This was my post from Aug 12th. I didn't get a response from the OP and I was wondering if it was possible for Annabelle to do this as it is a visual way to check if the TTS-1 was set up properly. 

[Annabelle]

2 hours ago, Cactus Music said:

This was my post from Aug 12th. I didn't get a response from the OP and I was wondering if it was possible for Annabelle to do this as it is a visual way to check if the TTS-1 was set up properly. 

Unfortunately there's a problem here:

1. I'm sight challenged, so I use JAWS, which doesn't seem to find the master fader, as it only understands text-based icons, and from what I gather, these controls in Cakewalk TTS1 seem to be image-based in some ways.

2. I can't use other virtual instruments at this moment, as my samples and instruments like Kontakt, FM Tines 2.0, StylusRMX, Trilian, and Eastwest Play instruments are on a hard drive that is out of order. It failed when my apartment complex lost power on May 27 of this year. A lot of the instruments on there are ones I've customized. I now have to send that drive into Drivesavers for Data Recovery. Luckily my renters insurance will cover the full price. All I have to pay is the $500 deductible!

3. I'm having a bit of downtime in the studio at this moment, as I just got a new tower, and I need to purchase some solid state drives, one for the Windows 7 operating system and other programs like JAWS and Sonar, and one for my projects.

[User 905133]

21 hours ago, Cactus Music said:

This was my post from Aug 12th. I didn't get a response from the OP and I was wondering if it was possible for Annabelle to do this as it is a visual way to check if the TTS-1 was set up properly. 

This is the first time I can remember having an issue with normal usage.  I am not sure the presence or absence of the no-sound issue tells whether or not TTS-1 was set up properly.

Edited August 18, 2022 by User 905133
edits

[John Vere]

2 hours ago, Annabelle said:

1. I'm sight challenged, so I use JAWS, which doesn't seem to find the master fader, as it only understands text-based icons, and from what I gather, these controls in Cakewalk TTS1 seem to be image-based in some ways.

Yes this is why I was thinking it might not work for you as it's something you have to see. That's probably common with a lot of VST instrument Graphic Interfaces. I guess that's why they are called that.  

2 hours ago, Annabelle said:

2. I can't use other virtual instruments at this moment, as my samples and instruments like Kontakt, FM Tines 2.0, StylusRMX, Trilian, and Eastwest Play instruments are on a hard drive that is out of order.

Just a thought but there are a lot of real good VST instruments that are free and you might be able to install some of these just to get you by until you get your full machine working again. Do you have the Studio Instrument Collection from Cakewalk? It's free with the new Version of Cakewalk and is a separate download. I don't think you need Cakewalk to install them but I could be wrong. Tell us what instruments you need and we could post some links. But once again that might require you get someone to help you install them.