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Brian Walton

Plugin Alliance Kills off Forever 29 plan for new users (not a deal)

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48 minutes ago, Yan Filiatrault said:

I think they might be pointing at one of the good places. I felt no hurry anymore to buy any of their plugins since that subscription is available and barely bought anything since then because of that.

The vast majority of the complaints recently I've seen are inability to get deep discounts below $31.  

Having to spend a Min of $50 has been the deal killer more than a you can get anything for $31 opportunity.   But I would argue that being able to get any plugin at $31 at any time hurts the value perception.   I agree it does help kill the sense of urgency that drove a lot of sales.  

 

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15 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

The vast majority of the complaints recently I've seen are inability to get deep discounts below $31.  

Having to spend a Min of $50 has been the deal killer more than a you can get anything for $31 opportunity.   But I would argue that being able to get any plugin at $31 at any time hurts the value perception.   I agree it does help kill the sense of urgency that drove a lot of sales.  

 

There are still regular sales at 25$ or lower, but I don’t bite anymore. In the past, I used a lot of times the 25$ voucher to lower an item on sale for 50$. Same prices now, but perception is different.

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Like I've stated b4... they should just make max price for one plugin @ 30 usd (or lower) and call it a day... stop playing cats and mouse game ... the truth is once you got your favourite 25+ plugins, you will almost never need anything else to make any kind of amazing production... different flavours, sure but hardly ever an essential tool that you are so badly missing... unless you of course watch those YT videos and buy because you are in the "big boys toys" mode... that candy buying impulse isn't really worth more than 30 usd a bag, err I mean a pop!😊👍

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17 minutes ago, ZokZTM said:

 you are in the "big boys toys" mode

And proud of it!

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1 hour ago, ZokZTM said:

Like I've stated b4... they should just make max price for one plugin @ 30 usd (or lower) and call it a day... stop playing cats and mouse game ... the truth is once you got your favourite 25+ plugins, you will almost never need anything else to make any kind of amazing production... different flavours, sure but hardly ever an essential tool that you are so badly missing... unless you of course watch those YT videos and buy because you are in the "big boys toys" mode... that candy buying impulse isn't really worth more than 30 usd a bag, err I mean a pop!😊👍

To Yan's point.  That model would not generate as much revenue as it kills off the value proposition of the sales and limited time only nature of impulse buying.

If I only bought what I needed at $30 a pop, they would not have hustled me into buying the ~90 I have today.  But I agree that would simplify and make the customer experience of only buy what you need a whole lot easier as there is a TON of overlap in the purchases once you start going crazy.

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25 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

as it kills off the value proposition of the sales and limited time only nature of impulse buying

Yep. I love the Valhalla plugins, and $50 always is a far more reasonable price model than "$139 marked down to $49 this weekend only!", BUT $50 is more than my impulse buy limit of $20-$30, and without that "gotta act now or lose this 'great' deal" pressure... well, I've only ever bought one of their plugins.

Whereas 2getheraudio has gotten more money out of me, even though I rarely use their stuff these days, simply because of the "name your price" model. I'll apparently buy *anything* for $10!

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30 minutes ago, Brian Walton said:

To Yan's point.  That model would not generate as much revenue as it kills off the value proposition of the sales and limited time only nature of impulse buying.

If I only bought what I needed at $30 a pop, they would not have hustled me into buying the ~90 I have today.  But I agree that would simplify and make the customer experience of only buy what you need a whole lot easier as there is a TON of overlap in the purchases once you start going crazy.

So do you guys find it morally ok to actually being ripped off by this kind of game at hand which is imposed by many bigger vendors... is there something you like about it, like truly like it? What makes you feel good? The fix of the day? Better than making music using the tools you already have and have forgotten about it?
I'm slowly growing really allergic  to it and start to find it a big distraction in multiple ways...

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5 minutes ago, John Bradley said:

Yep. I love the Valhalla plugins, and $50 always is a far more reasonable price model than "$139 marked down to $49 this weekend only!", BUT $50 is more than my impulse buy limit of $20-$30, and without that "gotta act now or lose this 'great' deal" pressure... well, I've only ever bought one of their plugins.

Whereas 2getheraudio has gotten more money out of me, even though I rarely use their stuff these days, simply because of the "name your price" model. I'll apparently buy *anything* for $10!

I think everyone who has been around for awhile knows that there are always some kind of deals going on... and like a bus... it always come another one...
I think when you have used that last plugin you've bought for at least one fully finished song you should entitle yourself to another one... but collecting digital dust is fun and actually quite expensive. So if you spend around 75 usd on average per month throughout the year, thats over 900 usd. I think one should ask himself what did I do with this money? Where was it used, how much did I get out of it? If this was your hardware  presumably laying around not being used for a year, you would consider selling it, right...

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, ZokZTM said:

 If this was your hardware  presumably laying around not being used for a year, you would consider selling it, right...

 

<shakes head at false equivalency>

 

🙂 

 

Truth be told, I have sold hardware before. Only to be replaced by better hardware. And both have at times not been used for over a year.

Edited by Bapu
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Yeah, I've never sold any of my gear.

Given it away, or thrown it in the trash when it's hopelessly obsolete and irrelevant, sure. But that's measured in decades, not years.

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46 minutes ago, ZokZTM said:

So do you guys find it morally ok to actually being ripped off by this kind of game at hand which is imposed by many bigger vendors... is there something you like about it, like truly like it? What makes you feel good? The fix of the day? Better than making music using the tools you already have and have forgotten about it?
I'm slowly growing really allergic  to it and start to find it a big distraction in multiple ways...

They don't force us to buy it, and the seats are actually perpetual (generally speaking) unlike say WAVES where something is bound to break and you literally have to buy it again to get support to make it work.

As long as the price is low enough and they don't force you to buy it, I can't morally object to it.  

Have I bought things I wouldn't have in a different model, I'm sure I have.  When they switched the model, I'd basically bought all I need and then some already...so any maker is going to have a tough time grabbing any cash above $10 from me now unless the product is truly unique (Next Scaler upgrade I might go above the $10 mark as an example)

I also find buying plugins a distraction at this point and doing it less and less.  Then again we also had 2 years of mass spending on plugins that the world has never seen before and on the whole are all loaded up with enough to last a lifetime now....with the economy doing what it is doing, I think plugins are no longer a priority for a lot of us and PA is feeling that pinch right after they sold the company who thought the stats they had were looking awfully good.

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My guess is that keeping the forever29 plan active would  prevent PA from reselling a few NI and iZotope plugins

Imagine Rx Advanced for $30 (that one they may justify some exclusion with the "it's not a plugin" argument), or Kontakt for $30 (much harder to justify an exclusion)

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45 minutes ago, Eusebio Rufian-Zilbermann said:

My guess is that keeping the forever29 plan active would  prevent PA from reselling a few NI and iZotope plugins

Well, my $EVA29 plan is and will remain active (until I cancel it), as it was/is grandfathered. 

But so was my lifetime SPlat plan. 😞 

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1 hour ago, Bapu said:

Well, my $EVA29 plan is and will remain active (until I cancel it), as it was/is grandfathered. 

But so was my lifetime SPlat plan. 😞 

That's kinda different though: a company has a choice whether it continues to offer a payment plan; on the other hand, it's (really) quite difficult to continue paying peoples' salaries when there's nothing left in the bank.

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2 hours ago, Bapu said:

Well, my $EVA29 plan is and will remain active (until I cancel it), as it was/is grandfathered. 

But so was my lifetime SPlat plan. 😞 

Sad to say I saw that one coming.

I run a software company and argued it made absolutely no financial sense for them to do what they were doing. Turns out it did make sense, but only if you don't care about the company being a going concern (ie real business).

I have come to realize I somewhat like collecting plugins. And if I decide to buy one and I can afford it for even a quick fix of experimenting than what's the problem? 

For me, I've moved on to sample libraries and unique effects - and no longer lust for any EQs, compressors, etc. When I built my Pro Tools template based on a number of Mix with the Masters classes it was fascinating to see which effects actually get used in all my projects. I added the SSL UC1 to my workflow and now I put an SSL on every track so very rarely do I reach for an EQ plugin unless I have some specific creative reason to do so. That means, if the EQ from the SSL sounds good (which I can quickly tweak using hardware), then I spend zero time auditioning other EQ plugins. If I'm just taming the signal than the SSQ comp is usually sufficient. That said I often reach for a specific comp because they add character. When I learned how to mix with Brauer's techniques we sent the same vocal into 7 or more compressors. You then audition each one on at a time and the one you like most gets brought up the most in the mix (actually, you mix more into it but that's a different conversation). You then mix the others to taste. That was a great learning experience about how much character a comp can bring to a track. That said, I have all the comps I need an then some - no new comp is going to get me excited.

I've gotten my mixing workflow to a good point regarding tools. I'm now working on optimizing my creative component and for that I am still very much interested in things that do something new. So, still on the prowl for plugins but more selective.

Let the hunt continue! :)

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4 hours ago, Eusebio Rufian-Zilbermann said:

My guess is that keeping the forever29 plan active would  prevent PA from reselling a few NI and iZotope plugins

Imagine Rx Advanced for $30 (that one they may justify some exclusion with the "it's not a plugin" argument), or Kontakt for $30 (much harder to justify an exclusion)

I thought the same but they are keeping it alive for those already paying for it.  I'm betting they are smart enough to exclude all advanced plugins as those with vouchers could keep buying advanced every month and sell the codes on the side.

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5 hours ago, Brian Walton said:

they are keeping it alive for those already paying for it

it's good business, and if there aren't that many forever 29 subscribers, it can probably be written down as a marketing cost

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, antler said:

That's kinda different though: a company has a choice whether it continues to offer a payment plan; on the other hand, it's (really) quite difficult to continue paying peoples' salaries when there's nothing left in the bank.

 

10 hours ago, smallstonefan said:

Sad to say I saw that one coming.

C'mon guys. It was meant as lighthearted sarcasm.  I know it is a false equivalency.

Edited by Bapu
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Posted (edited)

Well... I just subscribed to F29.

I used to say that I'd never join a software subscription plan. But I joined this one and the Roland Cloud Ultimate Play For Life.

I guess my problem is not with subscriptions per se but with subscriptions with which you go out empty handed when you unsubscribe.

Again... YMMV.

Edith also questioned if a F29 code ever expires. I'll post here the PA reply.

Edith again keeps telling me to get the iZotope Neoverb with my first code. Does she have a point?

Edited by Sergio

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