It's just another damn thing after another, and another

[Notes_Norton]

I didn't want to hijack Bitflipper's thread, so here is my latest adventure...

 

I've had my website since the Windows 3.1 days and was mail order before that (1990), I've been in business selling Band-in-a-Box aftermarket products since the very early 1990s, and my shopping cart services have always been https, although my website wasn't.

When I started selling BiaB aftermarket disks, they were on 5.25" and 3.5" floppy disks. I sold them formatted for Atari/ST, Mac (Motorola CPU), PC (called IBM Compatible, in both Windows and DOS formats). In other words, I've been doing this little moonlighting business longer than the Internet has been available to us mere mortals.

I just did an 8 e-disk release after two years work, and my customers tell me they are getting warnings from browsers and malware apps warning people my site is insecure. Many of my customers knew to click-through, and they gave me the FYI, and I figured I might be losing business. You can check out the release at https://www.nortonmusic.com - and my S is showing now.

So I decided to get that extra little s at the end of my http. (I needed a little S on the side).

I called my webhost, they quoted a price, it wasn't so steep that I would lose my own S, so I said OK. They said it will probably happen same-day and no more than 24-48 hours.

Little did I know what a pain in the S this was going to be. It took six days. Hours and hours per day.

In those six days, I spent countless hours on chat sessions and phone calls to people with foreign (to me) accents.

I was feeling like a ping-pong ball between my webhost and DigiCert, the certification company. ||: Hosting company says you need to contact DigiCert --- DigiCert says contact the hosting company :|| (repeat ad infinitum). --- Please hold while I investigate - please hold while I look up your records - please hold while I __________ (fill in the blank with whatever) sorry, you need to call the other company.

<<Rewind<<

At first, my web host said, all I needed to do was click "acknowledge" on the form my webhost directed me to. Easy-Peasy.

A day later, DigiCert says they need some proof I'm a business. I sent them what they asked for. After a Win11 upgrade, my scanner quit scanning (probably needs new drivers, but that's another issue to take care of) so I'm taking pictures with my phone, e-mailing to myself, attaching to an e-mail to Digicert.

Every time I submitted a proof, they said it doesn't fit their required proof that I am really a business. During the 6 days, I sent them documented proof of my:

* Local county business license

* State of Florida sales tax forms

* Website with shopping cart service

* Business bank account

* Business phone line

* Visa/MC merchant's account

* Visa/Mc online authorization service

Paperwork proof I've been in business longer that both DigiCert and my webhost have been in business.

||: I send them one proof, they ask for another :|| I asked for supervisors who promised to fix it but never did. I chat or texted with over 20 people, I was on so much I got a couple of the same people again. Not good enough?????????? Not proof I'm a legitimate business?????????

On the 6th day of this, I was frazzled. That's when I lost my temper and yelled at the rep for a minute or so. Then I immediately apologized, explaining I wasn't mad at him but frustrated with the entire process.

So the rep says I have every reason to be frustrated and adds, "let me see if there is something I can do to help".

Here's the funny part, after biz license, sales tax, website/shopping cart, biz bank account, biz phone, V/MC merchant's account, V/MC authorization service, my copy of receipts sent to customers and other paperwork didn't solve the requirements to prove to DigiCert that I'm a legitimate business, what worked?

The rep did a Google search and found me, called me on the Biz Phone listed and said, "That's it, we can certify you now."

I guess in this Internet age, a Google search is worth more than all the other actual physical proofs I am indeed in business.

Go figure.

As they say, all's well that ends well.

I'm no longer insecure.

 

Insights, incites and a combination minor rant/lame humor attempt by Notes ♫

[satya]

so Norton Antivirus is older than internet 😄

[Bapu]

1 hour ago, Notes_Norton said:

I'm no longer insecure.

UR my hero

[craigb]

Isn't it time to bring that ancient technology up to more modern times and start thinking out of the box Bob?  😆

"Band in Lockdown Wearing Masks!" 😷

[Notes_Norton]

23 hours ago, satyabrata satapathy said:

so Norton Antivirus is older than internet 😄

No, wrong Norton - he stole my name to ride on the shoulders of my greatness and popularity

Actually, Norton Utilities - same Norton later to become Norton AV was around since the DOS days.

 

Notes ♫

[Notes_Norton]

22 hours ago, craigb said:

Isn't it time to bring that ancient technology up to more modern times and start thinking out of the box Bob?  😆

"Band in Lockdown Wearing Masks!" 😷

I still use pencil and paper, have a landline, own a saxophone built in 1925, and read books made out of paper.

(in creaky voice): These kids with their new-fangled gadgets, we had to walk to school and live without Air Conditioning - these kids are spoiled, let me tell you.

 

Notes ♫

[pwal³]

i'd change hosting provider if i were you - -making you do all the SSL certification leg work is really shit

[jesse g]

On 8/3/2022 at 10:25 AM, Notes_Norton said:

No, wrong Norton - he stole my name to ride on the shoulders of my greatness and popularity

Actually, Norton Utilities - same Norton later to become Norton AV was around since the DOS days.

 

Notes ♫

Wrong again.  Before I was a Windows user, I was an Apple user and I had Symantec Antivirus for my Mac SE, (SAM)  this was back in 1988 or 1989 I believe.  Then I got a computer that showed color with my Mac Performa 405, then I was forced to use Windows at work and haven't gone back since,

[Notes_Norton]

12 hours ago, jesse g said:

Wrong again.  Before I was a Windows user, I was an Apple user and I had Symantec Antivirus for my Mac SE, (SAM)  this was back in 1988 or 1989 I believe.  Then I got a computer that showed color with my Mac Performa 405, then I was forced to use Windows at work and haven't gone back since,

Did they go by the Norton name back then?

My first Mac was a Classic II and never heard of Antivirus software back then.

My first Windows was a DOS5/Win3.1 and didn't know about Norton Utilities until a friend turned me on to them.

My first serious computer was an Atari/ST with built in MIDI ports (I had a TI99 before that). I started writing styles for Band-in-a-Box, and Peter Gannon, owner of PG Music (BiaB) called one day, asked me to send him an Atari disk, and he would convert it to the IBM (PC) format so I could sell to his biggest market. I was running it as Mail-Order with ads in Keyboard and Music & Computers magazines.

So I bought the IBM Compatible DOS5/Win3.1 machine, and later the Mac.

I first got on the Internet with an AOL gateway. Then when real Internet came around, I jumped on that.

I don't remember when I bought my first AV program, or which brand it was.

I'm a Windows user now. I like both, but the StyleMaker for Band-in-a-Box allows me to write better styles on Windows than the StyleMaker in Mac does. The better styles are compatible on both formats. This is no fault of the OS, but PG Music is very Windows-centric. I let the software I need most determine which OS I use.

My last Mac was a Power-PC eMac. At that time I still needed a Mac to convert the PC styles to Mac format, but then PG Music standardized the style files and I no longer needed both.

 

Notes ♫

[User 905133]

Talking about Norton, that brings up memories!  Peter Norton had a whole line of computer books.  IIRC, when new editions came out you could get the older editions at pop-up book warehouse sales--barebones stores in little mini malls with rows and rows of tables piled with books. (At least that's where I found them.)  I think this was before someone started the trend of ripping off the covers of old versions of books.

I am sure I had some Peter Norton books (with covers) from that era.   Not sure if they were ones he wrote or just published.

[jesse g]

2 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

Did they go by the Norton name back then?

My first Mac was a Classic II and never heard of Antivirus software back then.

 

No, it was called Symantec and they had SAM  for MAC.  It was on a Floppy utilities disk back them.  I remember because the store owner who sold me the Mac told me to install it as it was going to keep my computer from getting sick. The Utilities floppy came with all Apple/Macs back then.   We saved everything to Floppy and had more floppies laying around the house than clothes.  LOL

Edited August 5, 2022 by jesse g

[AndyB01]

Norton utilities for DOS were class leading, especially with an 8088 CPU, 32Mb storage and a whole 768k of RAM to work with - Norton for Windows however - er not so much.

Norton AV on Windows was renowned for being a terrible resource hog.

[azslow3]

The website remind me about 90es, I have created my first web site around 95 (after writing a web server for Windows to host it) 🤪

Seriously. Commercial (and even not commercial) websites should look a bit different these days. It may be worse to invest into that...

Also "View Your shopping cart" button produce "not secure" warning.

Just to make a website correctly respond to S, the simplest certificate is sufficient. I don't understand why you was asked for a "proof of business", that make sense for signing software (and from what I remember required for signing drivers). Web certificate just confirm what user see in the browser is really coming from the address the user is typed (https://www.nortonmusic.com/). Sure, now users can see the site owner is from Florida/Fort Pierce, confirmed by major certification authority. But I don't think many users really check that (and probably most people don't even know how to see that information...).

Probably that was the reason the first proposal was contacting webhost company. Many of them support S for free (using Let's Encrypt or similar certificates).

[craigb]

You punks just don't know how much fun it was to program before there were monitors! 😜

[Notes_Norton]

When I started writing aftermarket products for Band-in-a-Box, it was mail order, and they were on 5.25" and 3.5" floppies. I remember going to the post office with a pile of cardboard mailers containing the disks, and paying for postage.

When it turned into a software instead of mail-order business, I offered the option to download with no shipping and handling charges, and after about a year, people no longer wanted them shipped via the mail, so I removed that option.

Thanks for the heads-up User 905133, I thought I had put that pesky little s everywhere it needed to be. I did a search, page by page for http://www.nortonmusic.com, and replaced with https://www.nortonmusic.com

Hmm, that one goes to my cart - so another search and replace is needed.

I code the site by hand, as the site got huge, missing a few things is just the nature of the beast.

I learned from a book, "HTML In Plain English" and supplemented it with things I discovered on the Internet as the ability to write better pages evolved.

Many years ago, when this was still mail-order, a gal who ordered a lot of style disks, used to call on the phone and call me Peter. After a few times of correcting her, I gave up and just went with the flow. I never knew if she thought I was Peter Norton or Peter Gannon of PG Music (Band-in-a-Box) but she liked my work, came back for more, and it was all good.

 

Notes ♫

[RobertWS]

Good old Peter Norton.  

I remember directly writing to the display memory...address B800h....because of his books.   You can't do that now!

[User 905133]

17 minutes ago, Notes_Norton said:

Thanks for the heads-up User 905133, I thought I had put that pesky little s everywhere it needed to be. I did a search, page by page for http://www.nortonmusic.com, and replaced with https://www.nortonmusic.com

Ummm, well . . . thanks, but the tip was from az, although I had thought of posting what pwalpwal had suggested about looking into changing hosting provider.  My provider offered the https switch and I think all I had to do was authorize it by flipping a single switch in my account dashboard.  

[craigb]

Always loved Norton Utilities, but hated his over-bloated anti-virus stuff.  Now I use Glary Utilities instead (BTW - even the free version is awesome!) and ESET to cover my A/V needs (also the best I've found).

[Notes_Norton]

On 8/6/2022 at 9:58 AM, User 905133 said:

Ummm, well . . . thanks, but the tip was from az, although I had thought of posting what pwalpwal had suggested about looking into changing hosting provider.  My provider offered the https switch and I think all I had to do was authorize it by flipping a single switch in my account dashboard.  

I wanted the https to be in my name, not the web host's. That way if I want to change web hosts, I can take my SSL with me.

Same for shopping cart, which is independent from my web host.

I don't like being locked it, that way if the service gets crappy, I can change hosts with a minimum of problems.

 

Notes ♫

[pwal³]

21 hours ago, Notes_Norton said:

change hosts with a minimum of problems

 not necessarily as you'll have to set up the "things in your name"  - i can understand the webshop bit but not the SSL certificate stuff which can be right pain... but good luck

also, the HTTPS can be enforced server-side so even if you have left old non-S links, or a user has bookmarked a non-S link, the server will serve it as S, depends on your provider (it's totally do-able but whether they will-do is another thing)