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Toddskins

Can AD2 be added to and manipulated to hit on the beat of the live recording?

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I cannot recall if there was a thread on here on how to use CbB make a MIDI drum kit like AD2, be used on top of a live recording that slows up and down (not perfect tempo).  Is this possible?

I kinda think it might have had something to do with using some type of tool that assesses the beat in the audio recording, and then somehow creates a MIDI track from that, from which you then use AD2?

Can do???  Please point me to that thread if I'm not dreaming.  :)

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There are a couple of ways to do this.  Paul P's link is really good.  Something else you might want to try is leave the tempo and just use the drum replacement plugin.

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When creating a tempo map in CbB by dragging audio up to the timeline, experiment with different Melodyne algorithms. Sometimes Precussive works best for me, sometimes not. 

Overall, I've found this particular feature to work very well. I've analyzed a lot of songs by taking advantage of CbB's tempo mapping.

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8 hours ago, Jimbo 88 said:

There are a couple of ways to do this.  Paul P's link is really good.  Something else you might want to try is leave the tempo and just use the drum replacement plugin.

What do you mean?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

When creating a tempo map in CbB by dragging audio up to the timeline, experiment with different Melodyne algorithms. Sometimes Precussive works best for me, sometimes not. 

Overall, I've found this particular feature to work very well. I've analyzed a lot of songs by taking advantage of CbB's tempo mapping.

You mentioned this "Tempo changing" in your workshop last week, but did not go into detail on how to do it.  I bought your "How To Create Compelling Mixes" book online and should be getting it in a few days.  Hopefully it details the steps.

When I open Tempo View on my MIDI song, it simply shows me the bpm (and any changes if there are any).  

Can this tool be used on audio to make a custom bpm map, from which a MIDI file could be derived, and then add AD2 drums to that MIDI file with abnormal time changes throughout?

That's what I'm trying to achieve.  And I do have Melodyne Celemony Assistant, but have not learned to use it yet, if that's what I should use to achieve what I'm hoping.

Edited by Toddskins

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Posted (edited)
On 6/30/2019 at 11:05 AM, Paul P said:

 

I believe this article may be of help.  By well known Sonarian David Baer.

Tempo – The Last DAW Frontier?

 

Thanks for the link and trying to help me.  I read through the whole page, but I wish the writer assumed his audience was a little more  "with it".  I kinda understand what he is implying, and I think he expects me to get another app called a Maestrolizer to achieve results.  But there are no illustrations of the steps involved, other than a dialogue window of that app, which does not help me to understand the overall process.  I need more hand holding.

I've composed very complicated works on piano, and I'm not a concert pianist.  I've got stuff that I think "needs to be heard" but cannot play some parts of  my own compositions as well as I wish I could.  So I know I could rework all the MIDI notes from my MIDI recording (move the notes to line up perfectly, change the velocities, etc.), and then use that MIDI file to play a Piano plugin for the audio recording, and then add other instruments and drums, etc.

But like has been written so often, it will sound mechanical.  I'm not sure what I should  do and in what order.

I've also considered going to a recording studio with a grand piano, and with the help of the recording engineer, record the composition with several takes in order to get the difficult parts with clarity (my arm will be falling off at certain points due to the speed and I lack the endurance to play it perfectly like a trained concert pianist). 

Once the piano part is recorded perfectly (and I suspect it will not be a perfect, single tempo), then I need to "somehow" add the drums that I envision.  If the piano was likewise recorded on my MIDI controller, while playing along with the audio recording of the real piano (since that's the sound I wish to use), then I would have a MIDI file, but at not perfect tempo.  Can I use that MIDI file to trigger AD2 drums?

Edited by Toddskins

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16 hours ago, Toddskins said:

You mentioned this "Tempo changing" in your workshop last week, but did not go into detail on how to do it.  I bought your "How To Create Compelling Mixes" book online and should be getting it in a few days.  Hopefully it details the steps. 

When I open Tempo View on my MIDI song, it simply shows me the bpm (and any changes if there are any).  

Can this tool be used on audio to make a custom bpm map, from which a MIDI file could be derived, and then add AD2 drums to that MIDI file with abnormal time changes throughout?

The book covers tempo track changes, but not specific techniques for different programs because they all vary. Fortunately, CbB's is so easy to do it seems like there must be more to the story...but there isn't.

Note that for this technique to work, there has to be some semblance of a recognizable rhythm. If you have that, you should be okay. 

After you play your piano part, drag it up to the timeline. CbB will analyze the part and create a tempo map. It really is that simple. If the results aren't correct, undo, then set Melodyne to a different detection algorithm and try again. 

I've had really good luck with this. I did a demo once at Sweetwater when the tempo did a massive, fast drop on a rhythm guitar part, and CbB followed along.

Once you have the tempo map, lay down your AD2 part. Because there's a tempo map, the measures and beats in the MIDI editors will follow that map. You don't have to do anything special in terms of laying down the MIDI part. For example, if you want to quantize something to every 1/4 note, the quantization will shift the notes according to what the tempo track indicates. 

You may find the video on this page (dated April 4, 2016) helpful. It starts off showing a track that already has a pretty consistent tempo, but then uses a big band track that's more of a challenge because it starts with a pickup.

 

 

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I'd add a new track to the project and record a kind of a manual made beat - just hit your keyboard and record e.g. a bass drum.

This takes an amount of time and you have to be good at playing along in the right tempo but you can edit your recording and correct your mistakes.

After that create a tempo map from that new track and surprise - it'll be exactly on the beat (hopefully) 😉 and you can align your AD to it.

Just a little hack if you're good at playing along with band ... I did it once and I was very satisfied with the result.

No automation is used  but you wasted no time in trying to find the ultimate setup for it.

What do you think?

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Hello all, I have not tried this yet, but, do you need Melodyne for this to work?  I have not validated Melodyne on the computer at the dome, but would if that is needed.  Thanks

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Drag to timeline to create a tempo map uses Melodyne.

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2 minutes ago, scook said:

Drag to timeline to create a tempo map uses Melodyne.

Thank you for the quick reply!   I will validate my Melodyne tonight!

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Make sure to install the VST3 plug-in. It is the one used for ARA2 functions such as drag to timeline..

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Posted (edited)

Craig, thanks so much for that!  The video was so great, even to the point of his demonstrating dragging the audio clip by the header to the timeline and it turns blue at the top.   And your bit about how AD2 will automatically follow the MIDI Map that will then exist, really put it over the top for me.

I'm so stoked now!  With my newly acquired knowledge I know I can accomplish what I asked.

Thanks, and to all the rest of you, too!

Edited by Toddskins

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1 hour ago, Toddskins said:

I'm so stoked now!  With my newly acquired knowledge I know I can accomplish what I asked.

I would just add that Melodyne is not always 100% accurate in its assessment of your tempo, so be prepared to do a little manual editing of the generated tempo map, and don't get discouraged. I kind of like @michheld's idea above, especially if your piano track is not a rockin' four-on-the-floor beat.

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10 hours ago, Larry Jones said:

I would just add that Melodyne is not always 100% accurate in its assessment of your tempo, so be prepared to do a little manual editing of the generated tempo map, and don't get discouraged.

It's true that Melodyne isn't always 100% accurate, but before you start in on manual editing , try some different detection algorithms first.

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Melodyne has never mapped accurately for the stuff I’ve tried with it.  I personally like to do it by hand by drawing the tempo changes while the Click is on, making the click play perfectly on the beat.   I’ve been doing this way for years, long before melodyne, and it’s 100% accurate every time.  I too have enjoyed studying the human variations of groups and or individuals by analyzing  tempo maps. 

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Watch out for tempo-sync'd VSTs on projects with varying tempo.

Continuously changing tempos can cause clicking in many tempo sync'd VSTs.

Synths tend to do fine as long as there is no tempo sync FX in the chain.

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