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abacab

Why Do We Still Care About the Juno?

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16 hours ago, abacab said:

Tangerine Dream performing live in concert in 2007 with computers & soft synths (Absynth, Atmosphere, FM7, & editor/librarian for Creamware Minimax ) . I wonder if they had a plan B?

Interesting to see, but, to be honest, that's exactly what it sounds like. The roundness and the definition are gone, and those transients... I had to shut it down after a few minutes, just cause I couldn't take those clangy hi-hats.

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1 minute ago, John Bradley said:

I'd go so far to say the solid-body electric guitar isn't an instrument at all, it's a controller.

The instrument, the object you're actually playing, is the amp rig and fx setup. And the speaker cabinet and room, if you're playing at volume. The guitar itself is largely irrelevant once it's of sufficient quality that it's not actively impeding you. You can do nearly anything with anything.

I agree with you, sound wise, but I wouldn't go as far as to just call it a controller - even though I've thought about that myself - because it actually generates its own sound. Just that it's not that good. And the pickups you choose - and the pickup height, that often gets overlooked - do matter for the tone, albeit not as much as the amp, the cab, and the miking, I agree.

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8 hours ago, Olaf said:

I couldn't take those clangy hi-hats.

Never really been a fan of e-drums...

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8 hours ago, abacab said:

Never really been a fan of e-drums...

I grew up with Jean Michel Jarre, Vangelis, Klaus Schulze, Yanni - back whan he was playing synths - Kitaro, Tangerine Dream, so on...

But that never seemed to be a problem on their records. The frequencies were more well balanced. I guess it was the hardware, going to tape, etc.

That being said, I prefer a good drum kit over a drum machine any day, myself, but there are some genres where it would be harder to make them gel. JMJ started to use real drums from Rendez-Vous to Chronologie, then electric guitars, and made it work well.

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2 hours ago, Olaf said:

I grew up with Jean Michel Jarre, Vangelis, Klaus Schulze, Yanni - back whan he was playing synths - Kitaro, Tangerine Dream, so on...

But that never seemed to be a problem on their records. The frequencies were more well balanced. I guess it was the hardware, going to tape, etc.

That being said, I prefer a good drum kit over a drum machine any day, myself, but there are some genres where it would be harder to make them gel. JMJ started to use real drums from Rendez-Vous to Chronologie, then electric guitars, and made it work well.

Obviously there are some compromises when capturing and mixing a live performance vs. a studio production.

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1 hour ago, abacab said:

Obviously there are some compromises when capturing and mixing a live performance vs. a studio production.

I don't think that's what this is, cause even live I've never seen these problems in their shows. No, the problem in most likely the VSTs. Older generation VSTs always had that problem in the top, and so did guitar amps and everything else. They also sounded flat, bloated and sluggish, which I was noting in the sound before. There are some good plugin synths out there now, but not all of them are, and probably 5 years ago, when the show was recorded, they weren't even out.

Edited by Olaf

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36 minutes ago, Olaf said:

I don't think that's what this is, cause even live I've never seen these problems in their shows. No, the problem in most likely the VSTs. Older generation VST always had that problem in the top, and so did guitar amps and everything else. They also sounded flat, bloated and sluggish, which I was noting in the sound before. There are some good plugin synths out there now, but not all of them are, and probably 5 years ago, when the show was recorded, they weren't even out.

 The show was recorded in 2007. So 15 year old technology.

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45 minutes ago, abacab said:

 The show was recorded in 2007. So 15 year old technology.

Ah, OK, that explains it. I had remembered 2017.

Edited by Olaf

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I think Juno love is more about nostalgia for genres and classic songs that used it rather than the technical capabilities of the synth itself.  back before the days of having a 100 soft synths, countless aspiring dance music creators could often afford a limited setup.  For those who know the history of Deep House, Larry heard created House classics like 'Can You feel it" using a Roland 707 and Juno 6.  The simple bassline was the 707 triggering Juno. The simplicity of creating sound on a Juno was for many a more usable option for many compared to other budget options like casio.  This also create a copycat effect.  Nostalgia has a habit of giving us reverence for things that were never the sum of our adulation. I do, however find that occasionally limiting myself to the budget tools of yesteryear helps trigger my beginner mindset and sparks creativity that scarcity sometimes provides. I have a template that is basically a Juno, 909 and sampler.

Edited by dubdisciple
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I think there is a similar nostalgia based reason for the popularity of both 303 and 808 over the years.  The 808 was never really great and had a limited soundset.  It was , however used in a ton of 80s and 90s music. Granted that soundset is so ubiquitous it is still used today...except for that's not entirely true. The term 808 has become one of the phrases like Jello or Zipper that is used even when we are not referring to original sound. "808s" are all over modern pop, EDM, Hip-hop , etc, but except for niche artists looking to showoff vintage gear, the sounds are made with other synths. the original 808 kick sample struggles to make melodic gliding bass sounds used in Drill or Grime. Much easier to make in Serum( or similar synth) or even a sampler. I remember when Roland owned cakewalk and reminded us that they gave us " the original samples" used from their drum sounds. I thought that was so cool ..and never used them because other products out Rolanded my original samples. people forget a lot of engineering went into getting that sound. the same tricks (layering a sub sine wave  for example) sound even better with other sound sources.

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