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Bobo Fret

Updating plugins makes them non-functional in older projects

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Hopefully just operator error, but...

 

Whenever I update a plugin/softsynth, it works fine in new projects, but the plugin won't open or function in older projects.  I have to delete them and then re-insert them into the project.  It's a bummer because I don't know what settings, synth preset, etc. was used before.  I am currently migrating to a new computer and now that I'm installing all my software, ALL the plugins are toast in completed projects.  

 

Is there a way around this or is this just the way it is?

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Posted (edited)

I'm no expert on plugin technology, but my basic understanding is this:

Every plugin has a Unique ID assigned (by registration with Steinberg, I believe). If it changes for any reason,  the DAW will not recognize it as being same plugin. This is not a Cakewalk-specific issue. The UID will typically change if the new plugin is VST3 where the old one was VST2 or 64-bit vs. 32-bit, but may also change when the manufacturer adds capabilities to the new version and re-registers it as a new plugin because existing presets or parameter mappings are not compatible with the original implementation. The only real solution is to ensure you re-install the legacy versions of the plugins for compatibility with old projects. Since they have different UIDs, they should be able to coexist with the newer versions both in the O/S and in projects, but it's probably best to install them in chronological order if possible.

Edited by David Baay

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Hmmm...your response may have actually answered a couple of my questions, one of which is why do so many plugins default to a Steinberg folder during installation.

I have definitely been selectively installing exclusively VST3 versions of stuff on my new computer instead of the VST2 versions of the same software that was possibly used initially.  It makes sense that a revision of a softsynth may be architecturally changed and thus not compatible any more. 

It's gonna be a giant PITA re-installing all those Arturia synths trying to figure what version I used :(

Thanks!!!

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The only way to prevent this headache when building a new DAW is to save plugin presets in your old computer and copy them over. If your old computer is still up and running, whenever you have to finagle a plugin substitution just save presets on the old computer on a case-by-case basis. With very rare exceptions, the new version of a plugin will almost always be able to read presets from the previous version.

The good news is that it's rarely a case of the new version being incompatible. I've only seen that happen a couple times. More likely, the new version has been installed in a different path, or (less likely, but not unheard of) the new plugin has a different name than the old one. Using VST3 won't completely eliminate such problems, but it can mitigate them due to enforced consistency for install locations.

 

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Having been burned by this problem a few times, part of my backing up process involves exporting the processed audio from a track as well as the raw audio.

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There is a little-used notes function in Cakewalk, I tend to use that to document key project data (like plugin settings and a few other things).

Has saved me a few times. Bit of a pain to do but really helps if a manual rebuild of a project is required.

Andy

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I definitely do that with the track names AND with the "notes" function.  I use notes generally to record things like any weird guitar tunings I used, the signal path/settings for each instrument, etc.

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I use the notepads in the track lane header:

image.png.0a2fe4358bfe397c9b027d6214ab6d45.png

And sometimes in the Track Inspector:

image.png.4640db7fb7aa0eb20972174f179da837.png

The per-track ones are good for when I'm auditioning different synth sounds, when I hit a good one I make a note of the synth/patch, but of course it could also be used for stuff like which mic I used, etc.

As for the issue with the older plug-ins being declared missing, that's got to be a side effect of migrating to VST3's. I've had it happen where even when the manufacturer is diligent and uses the same plug-in ID in the 64-bit, 32-bit, VST2, and VST3 builds, the host will still not recognize the plug-in as being the same one.

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Jeez...I had no idea there were notepads in those places.  I'm embarassed to admit how long I've been invested in this DAW and I still know only a fraction of the functionality.  Oh well, live and learn.  Cheers.

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5 hours ago, Bobo Fret said:

I'm embarrassed to admit how long I've been invested in this DAW and I still know only a fraction of the functionality.  Oh well, live and learn.

I accept it as part of the joy of Cakewalk. If you want to be humbled some more (in a good way), head over to the Tutorials sub and check out some of the tips.

I just posted one about a couple of the stochastic elements built into Cakewalk. The Step Sequencer can add randomization to how often a note will sound and the plug-in properties menu can randomize whatever parameters an effect or synth exposes.

There's a lot more to the Step Sequencer than I had thought. I don't think it gets the attention it deserves. I want to try going to it first when I want to make a beat.

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Here's some excerpts from the The Huge Book of Cakewalk by BandLab Tips eBook that you might find helpful, because it lists the actual character counts and text editing protocols. It's part of a longer tip called "The Virtual Back of the Tape Box," which goes into finding file attributes and such.

The Various “Notepads"

Cakewalk by BandLab makes it easy to take notes on individual tracks, takes, and track folders. However, as with Project Info, there are no text formatting options.

To take notes on Tracks, click the Track tab in the Inspector. You can enter around 1,000 characters in the description field.

To take notes on Takes, double-click in the rectangle toward the right of the Take header (e.g., to the right of the Take’s record button). This can also store about 1,000 characters. You can enter line breaks in the Take Lane notes section by holding Ctrl and pressing Enter, which is immensely useful when making time-based notes on takes like…

00:00-00:50 Good
00:51-00:55 Mistake
00:56-1:30 Final (C1)

To take notes on Track Folders, double-click in the rectangle below the listing of the number and types of tracks contained in the folder.

Track names can hold 128 characters. You can’t see them all at once, but if you double-click as if you were doing text entry, you can use the right and left arrow keys to scroll through what you entered.

image.png.301f82cfac480b2e16af6554b1133b54.png

Or, hover the cursor over the track name, you’ll see a label that gives the full title.

The Browser also contains a section for Notes. This text editor can hold over 29,000 characters—almost 5,000 words. To provide perspective, that’s like a two-page magazine article...which should be enough to hold you! You can do the usual cut/copy/paste commands, but there’s no formatting (font, size, bold, etc.). Also, there’s no scroll bar, so you need to use the up and down arrow keys to move through the text. One considerate feature is that when entering text, it becomes larger and bolder so it’s easier to read.

image.png.c20077cebf03d9c5b3e6d1eb7aa60879.png

You can also show/hide file stats with the File Stats button, as well as upload an image (like album art). Note that if you used Project Info in older versions of SONAR, that info will be imported into the Notes tab in Cakewalk by BandLab.

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2 hours ago, Craig Anderton said:

...eBook that you might find helpful...

+100! Recommended reading for beginners and old hands alike.

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On 5/6/2022 at 1:30 PM, bitflipper said:

+100! Recommended reading for beginners and old hands alike.

Thanks for the props!!

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On 5/6/2022 at 9:27 AM, Craig Anderton said:

The Huge Book of Cakewalk by BandLab Tips eBook that you might find helpful

I certainly found/find it so.

Take $20 out of your plug-in budget and just get it. I put it on my iPad so that I can read it while waiting at the airport, doctor's office, etc.

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On 5/8/2022 at 2:22 PM, Craig Anderton said:

Thanks for the props!!

Don't forget this one. My brother gave (sorry, Craig) me his copy when I was starting out. 

 

Andertion Book.jpg

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Ha! Brings back memories :)  

FWIW I'm planning on releasing a MIDI 2.0 book in 2023 if MIDI 2.0 has gotten enough traction by then. It will be for Sweetwater Publishing, like all my other books (except for the Cakewalk one).

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