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Vertical scrolling not working like it does in Sonar Platinum


C. Glen Smith

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Long time Cakewalk user since version 5 through to Platinum. This is my first post after deciding to try Cakewalk by BandLab on a completely new Windows 11 PC build. Initially, I thought it might be a Logitech driver issue, but that's not the case. I even uninstalled the Logitech drivers and still observed the same behaviour on WIndows 11. The scroll wheel works fine to pan up and down tracks when I am hovering over the clip view. The moment I hover the mouse to the left of the clip view over the track  controls in the audio track strip, all vertical scrolling stops. Sometimes, if I don't click to the left of the clip pane scrolling will continue to scroll for a bit (perhaps until the software recognizes where I am hovering over on the interface), but the scroll wheel function will be disabled immediately if I click anywhere to the left of the clip pane, until I move the pointer back over the clip pane.  Then the scroll wheel works again, as normal. 

For example, when I want to solo a bunch of tracks, I have to click "S", then move the pointer to the right over the clip view, then scroll up to the next track I want to select, then move back to the left, click "S" (disables scrolling), and move back to the right, scroll up/down, and repeat back and forth just to solo a bunch of separated tracks in the track view. Attempted the same task on my version of Sonar Platinum, I can scroll up and down over the control buttons in the track view with the scroll wheel. The scroll wheel is not disabled when I hover over the track controls in the audio track strip, so it is not a Windows 11 issue.   This loss of the scroll wheel is really disruptive to convenient workflow.  There's likely way more improvements that have been made to Cakewalk by BandLab, but having to go left and right or even farther to the right to grab the scroll bar is a serious pain. Is there something I am missing here folks? Some special control key that enables the scroll wheel to work properly, or at least the way it does in Sonar Platinum? This cumbersome back and forth is not necessary in Sonar Platinum... and I was hoping to make the jump to BandLab with the new PC build. I find no evidence that this is a Logitech driver or Window's issue, given that there are no such issues on Sonar Platinum. Is this scroll wheel behaviour on Windows 11 and Cakewalk by BandLab  version 2022.01 (Build 029) a first, or have BandLab users just come to accept the loss of functionality?

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42 minutes ago, gsmith said:

Is there something I am missing here folks?

For your specific example, you should use Quick Groups for that. Select the tracks you wish to solo, then hold the Cntrl key while clicking one of the Solo buttons. That will Solo all of the selected tracks. All track controls will respond to Quick Groups.

However, there have been several threads lately complaining of unexpected scroll wheel behavior. Try clicking in the area you want to scroll before scrolling.

FWIW I have not noticed a difference in the way Cakewalk responds to scrolling in the Track View compared to Sonar Platinum; but I switched the day CbB became available and have not looked back. Perhaps I have just forgotten how it used to work.

 

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I appreciate your reply Base 57.

The Solo button was just one example. If I was to simply try and adjust settings of FX plugins in various tracks, I would still now have to go back and forth left and right over the clip pane, for no other reason than to enable the scroll wheel. I did anticipate examples like this as a potential workaround. Unfortunately, they don't provide the functionality I have lost, or at best only resolve it a certain specific use case. Nonetheless, I appreciate the suggestion.

The problem in this situation is that the scroll wheel becomes disabled immediately after clicking in the area I want to scroll in. Just the opposite of what you and I would both expect to happen.

I'm assuming you have a scroll wheel on your input device and are able to scroll in the area just left of the clip panes in Cakewalk by BandLab, similar to what I can do presently running Sonar Platinum. Perhaps you are running CakeWalk by BandLab  software on an older version of Windows with a different processor, which might explain why things are different for you.

If there are others out there who are running Cakewalk by BandLab on a Windows 11 PC with a 12th generation intel processor, I'd be interested to know whether they are encountering the same behaviour so I could make an apples to apples comparison.

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Hey tecknot,

I do expect that the scroll wheel is likely working fine on the vast number of systems for other users. If it wasn't, it's annoying enough from a workflow perspective to be negatively commented about in large numbers.

Can you confirm whether your PC is similar to mine in terms of Windows version, Cakewalk by BandLab version and 12th generation Intel? My gut, tells me that may be the reason that the software is not responding the way it has for other users with older systems... I might be wrong, but my setup seems far too clean, too new for this behaviour to be due to something wrong with a brand new PC. I might be wrong, but highly doubt it. Appreciate all comments, but really interested in hearing from Windows 11 intel 12th generation owners.

Edited by gsmith
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4 hours ago, gsmith said:

The moment I hover the mouse to the left of the clip view over the track  controls in the audio track strip, all vertical scrolling stops.

I can reproduce that, but only while the cursor is over an FX bin after leaving the clips pane - hovering over any other part of the tracks pane works as expected, and once I've scrolled in the tracks pane, it works when over an FX bin as well. And I can confirm Platinum did not have this quirk. Had not noticed it until I went looking for it. I guess I just don't normally stop over the FX bin when scrolling in the tracks pane.

P.S. I'm on Windows 10.

Edited by David Baay
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I am running CbB 2022.02 in Windows 10 (Version 10.0.19044.1586). Here is what I am experiencing:

1. Vertical scroll always works while over the clips pane.

2. Vertical scroll always works when the mouse is to the left of the clips pane, but not over the FX bin.

3. If I do a vertical scroll to the left of the clips pane, but outside the FX bin, and then try a vertical scroll over the FX bin within one second, it works. It continues to work if I wait less than one second between vertical scrolls.

4. Vertical scroll never works while over the FX bin if it has been at least one second since since doing a vertical scroll.

It's funny that this reminds me of the one second delay that was put into CbB a while back (never in Sonar versions): After scrolling, if within one second you move the wheel again while over a control, it will scroll instead of adjusting the control. If you wait longer than one second after scrolling, moving the wheel will adjust the control instead of scrolling. This safety delay is intended to minimize the chances of inadvertently adjusting a control when trying to scroll instead. Maybe for scrolling purposes, CbB confuses the FX bin as a control 🙂. I know it sounds weird, but there seems to be a connection.

Edited by Tim E.
Typo.
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3 hours ago, Tim E. said:

Maybe for scrolling purposes, CbB confuses the FX bin as a control

My guess is it would take additional code to deliberately exclude the FX bin from obeying the '1-second rule', and this simply wasn't considered. It's only noticeable because the FX bin is the first object your cursor encounters when passing out of the clips pane into the tracks pane and it's big.

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17 hours ago, gsmith said:

Hey tecknot,

I do expect that the scroll wheel is likely working fine on the vast number of systems for other users. If it wasn't, it's annoying enough from a workflow perspective to be negatively commented about in large numbers.

Can you confirm whether your PC is similar to mine in terms of Windows version, Cakewalk by BandLab version and 12th generation Intel? My gut, tells me that may be the reason that the software is not responding the way it has for other users with older systems... I might be wrong, but my setup seems far too clean, too new for this behaviour to be due to something wrong with a brand new PC. I might be wrong, but highly doubt it. Appreciate all comments, but really interested in hearing from Windows 11 intel 12th generation owners.

Hi gsmith,

I am using Windows 10 1909 with a 8th gen CPU (i7-8750H) and the latest CbB version.

Kind regards,

tecknot

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5 hours ago, Tim Elmore said:

I am running CbB 2022.02 in Windows 10 (Version 10.0.19044.1586). Here is what I am experiencing:

1. Vertical scroll always works while over the clips pane.

2. Vertical scroll always works when the mouse is to the left of the clips pane, but not over the FX bin.

3. If I do a vertical scroll to the left of the clips pane, but outside the FX bin, and then try a vertical scroll over the FX bin within one second, it works. It continues to work if I wait less than one second between vertical scrolls.

4. Vertical scroll never works while over the FX bin if it has been at least one second since since doing a vertical scroll.

It's funny that this reminds me of the one second delay that was put into CbB a while back (never in Sonar versions): After scrolling, if within one second you move the wheel again while over a control, it will scroll instead of adjusting the control. If you wait longer than one second after scrolling, moving the wheel will adjust the control instead of scrolling. This safety delay is intended to minimize the chances of inadvertently adjusting a control when trying to scroll instead. Maybe for scrolling purposes, CbB confuses the FX bin as a control 🙂. I know it sounds weird, but there seems to be a connection.

Right as you guessed we have a timer to prevent inadvertently changing control values. People complained about accidentally changing values while meaning to scroll so this delay was added to alleviate such issues. 
I don’t remember if scroll wheel works on the effects rack but it it is treated no differently from other track or mixer controls.

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15 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Right as you guessed we have a timer to prevent inadvertently changing control values. People complained about accidentally changing values while meaning to scroll so this delay was added to alleviate such issues. 
I don’t remember if scroll wheel works on the effects rack but it it is treated no differently from other track or mixer controls.

Hello. Could you explain better how the timer works, because, invariably, in projects where the PANs are changed. It seems that these are scroll movements with the mouse wheel that have been buffered. Perhaps it was important to lock mouse wheel operation when it was in operation.

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Well done everyone. Nice to discover I wasn't just making this up. :) But I failed to isolate it down (shame on me! :() to just being limited to the Fx bin! So moving a tad father to the left and yeah, I'm actually scrolling again! My bad. Must have just wiggled it around too much trying to get things scrolling again, to realize that I was hovering over the top of the Fx bin again. That said, I can't see what controls in that area need protection from users unintentionally tweaking the Fx bin. I suppose that the scroll wheel might potentially re-order the plug-ins selected in the Fx bin. That said, Sonar Platinum doesn't reorder the plug-ins when scrolling over the Fx bin, and allows scrolling up and down without reordering plug-ins. From a software design standpoint, I'd probably make clicking a control the prerequisite to enacting the scroll wheel, and there would be no issue with inadvertent tweaking when simply hovering over anything, but that's a personal preference.

If there is anyone on the planet who has a bit of a personal history of stumbling upon software idiosyncrasies like this, it's me. Just couldn't make sense of it, when it has never been an issue as a long time user of Sonar. With your help, I am pleased to confirm that it has nothing to do with my new PC, Windows 11 or the processor. I have all of you to thank for that! Really appreciate everyone chiming in, contributing their observations and for showing the interest to assist. Great forum experience!!  Again, very well done!

Edited by C. Glen Smith
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I think there is an actual bug here however. If I move the mouse over the left of a track and scroll, and then immediately move the the effects bin it scrolls the view properly. However if I wait a couple of seconds with the mouse over the effects bin it wont scroll anymore. Will look into it and see. why that happens.
Edit: its actually not a bug. in CbB we support scrolling the FX rack unlike Platinum. So its attempting to scroll the rack instead of the tracks view. You can verify by adding plugins to the rack. We'll see if its feasible to improve the behavior in the future.

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I think we made FX bins scrollable with the mouse wheel post Platinum, so technically it's by design. That is, if the mouse is currently over an FX bin, mouse wheel scrolling will scroll the FX bin, not the parent view. It's useful since you can only see a couple of plugins at a time at default track heights.

There might be some minor inconsistencies with the timer Noel mentioned, and we could potentially make it smarter, but it's basically working as designed, and that explains why it's different to Platinum.

 

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2 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

I think there is an actual bug here however. If I move the mouse over the left of a track and scroll, and then immediately move the the effects bin it scrolls the view properly. However if I wait a couple of seconds with the mouse over the effects bin it wont scroll anymore. Will look into it and see. why that happens.
Edit: its actually not a bug. in CbB we support scrolling the FX rack unlike Platinum. So its attempting to scroll the rack instead of the tracks view. You can verify by adding plugins to the rack. We'll see if its feasible to improve the behavior in the future.

Clarification question. Would there be or is there already a way to specify the blocking of the mouse scroll operation or edits in tracks or projects? My question is based on the fact that sometimes I do mouse operations on a part of the screen where the mouse cursor is already, but the operation actually takes place on another part of it. Example: I want to scroll the PAN fade on one BUS, but end up performing the operation on the fade of another. The impression I have is that the movement and positioning of the mouse on the screen is much faster than what actually happens in DAW times. The mouse has already arrived where I want it on the screen, but in the program it is still in the previous position. It's just a clarification question.

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7 hours ago, Ben Staton said:

I think we made FX bins scrollable with the mouse wheel post Platinum, so technically it's by design. That is, if the mouse is currently over an FX bin, mouse wheel scrolling will scroll the FX bin, not the parent view. It's useful since you can only see a couple of plugins at a time at default track heights.

I remember this change - it feels like it's had unintended consequences and the Platinum method was preferable (personally, I don't like it and haven't since it was introduced) and should be rolled back.

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One way to make FX scrolling smarter would be to do this:

1. If the mouse cursor is over the FX bin and the bin contents are taller than the FX bin rectangle, then the wheel will scroll the FX bin.

2. If the mouse cursor is over the FX bin and all FX contents are already fully visible (no need for scrolling the FX bin), then the wheel will scroll the entire Track Pane.

Either way, the UI would respond to the wheel, and the behavior would be no mystery even to those who are new to this.

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