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Mono Plugins problem.

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47 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

@Antonio López Zambrano - did you try setting the interleave of the track to mono before doing your clip bounce?

image.png.269e0017438872bc5c149b14f1899975.png

 

Hi Mark

What I have checked is that if I put the Interleave in MONO before inserting the plugin everything works correctly.  Tomorrow I will check if with the plugin already placed and passing the Interleave to MONO just before the Bounce to Clip works or not.  

I try it and I tell you the result tomorrow.

 

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13 hours ago, msmcleod said:

@Antonio López Zambrano - did you try setting the interleave of the track to mono before doing your clip bounce?

image.png.269e0017438872bc5c149b14f1899975.png

Hi Mark

Three different situations:

a) Waves C1 comp Mono   -->  New Track. Interleave in Stereo. Then I record. Then I add the mono plugin. Finally I pass Interleave to Mono and Bounce to Clip. Result Everything perfect.

b) FabFilter Pro-Q2 Mono  -->  New Track. Interleave in Stereo Then I record. Then I add the mono plugin and everything is blocked. Close Cakewalk with End task and rerun Cakewalk.

c) FabFilter Pro-Q2 Mono  -->  New Track. Interleave in Stereo Then I record. Now I pass Interleave to MONO, before add the plugin, then I add the plugin and finally Bounce to Clip. Result Everything perfect.

Waves allows you to add the plugin with Interleave in Stereo and with FabFilter you have to pass Interleave to Mono BEFORE adding the plugin.

Of course for the Bounce to Clip to work well it is imperative that Interleave finally be in Mono.

This is what I just tried. I hope it is useful for you.

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Yeah, what would be nice is if Cakewalk would automatically set the interleave to mono for mono tracks. Only when you add a VST with a stereo output would it automatically change the interleave to stereo.

But for now, I guess you just need to be careful and be mindful of what VST's you've got on your track, and manually set the interleave accordingly.

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59 minutes ago, msmcleod said:

Yeah, what would be nice is if Cakewalk would automatically set the interleave to mono for mono tracks.

This was how SONAR worked through X3. IIRC, a change was introduced early in 2015 where the interleave was no longer linked to the track input but I do not recall the rationale for the change.

 

 

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Interleave appears to be a method to blend the left and right outputs and simultaneously reduce volume by 3db at the end of the signal chain. If the track is indeed mono after fx, interleave should have no effect.

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A interleaved file is easier on the processing power than an equivalent stereo file made up of two mono trks. So I think that's why CW uses interleaved files. It's also a very common file type associated with Windows OS. Not sure if iOS uses interleaved file or not.

But some plugins are developed (I must add I am purely speculating on this) with Pro Tools in mind, which at one time did not work with interleaved files. Not sure if that's still the case.

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On 6/7/2019 at 4:28 PM, Blogospherianman said:

Yeah this doesn’t work, nor does Forcing Stereo operation.  The double nodes never show in the FX bin.  Thanks for your input put though! 👍 I believe this issue requires a fix on Cakewalk’s end.

I've noticed that changing the Stereo Interleave button to Mono from the track itself does not force an inserted Mono plugin to stay Mono (FX bin still shows two pins), only using the Interleave button from the Mix Console itself changes the pins from stereo to mono and vice versa. Otherwise, inserting a Mono plugin with the Interleave set to the default Stereo forces the Mono plugin to Stereo (two pins). I am using UAD plugins to test this, as I need to use the Mono versions of these plugins to get reduced DSP usage that the Mono versions afford. I do recall this behavior changed about the time that the Stereo/Mono  Interleave was taken out of the audio track controls back before SONAR Platinum. They were later put back in but have never really worked right, as when using from the Mix Console itself. I have just got in the habit of using the Interleave button on the Mix Console itself when changing the Interleave status.

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1 hour ago, scook said:

This was how SONAR worked through X3. IIRC, a change was introduced early in 2015 where the interleave was no longer linked to the track input but I do not recall the rationale for the change.

 

 

It makes sense to me to NOT have the interleave linked to input.  I might record a Mono guitar but want to process it with a Stereo Guitar plugin like Guitar Rig.  Or a Mono vox track with a stereo doubler like ADT.  Just because it’s mono in doesn’t mean I want mono out.  This rationale makes sense to me.

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It has always been possible to set the track interleave manually. The change that happened after X3 only affected the default track setup. Rather than default the interleave to agree with the input, interleave always defaults to stereo.

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1 hour ago, Billy Buck said:

I've noticed that changing the Stereo Interleave button to Mono from the track itself does not force an inserted Mono plugin to stay Mono (FX bin still shows two pins), only using the Interleave button from the Mix Console itself changes the pins from stereo to mono and vice versa. 

Yeah if you change the interleave in the main track view you must toggle the bypass  of that FX or FX bin (or just hit E twice) for the nodes to change.  If the interleave is clicked on from the Inspector or the console view the change is instant.

My issue is specific to Waves Mono/Stereo plugins though.  They are designed to be used in either mono or stereo. The mono ones work fine and the stereo ones work fine. (The Stereo ones don’t mind their interleave being switched to mono either) The ones that say ‘Mono/Stereo’ eg  Abbey Road Plates Mono/Stereo only function in Mono not allowing their interleave to be changed.  The Waves PRS collection only has mono and mono/stereo version, no stereo ones.  It would be nice if the mono/stereo one could function properly in stereo.

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On 6/9/2019 at 10:31 AM, Blogospherianman said:

Yeah if you change the interleave in the main track view you must toggle the bypass  of that FX or FX bin (or just hit E twice) for the nodes to change.  If the interleave is clicked on from the Inspector or the console view the change is instant.

My issue is specific to Waves Mono/Stereo plugins though.  They are designed to be used in either mono or stereo. The mono ones work fine and the stereo ones work fine. (The Stereo ones don’t mind their interleave being switched to mono either) The ones that say ‘Mono/Stereo’ eg  Abbey Road Plates Mono/Stereo only function in Mono not allowing their interleave to be changed.  The Waves PRS collection only has mono and mono/stereo version, no stereo ones.  It would be nice if the mono/stereo one could function properly in stereo.

I am bumping this because I am having the exact same problem.  Using the Waves mono/stereo version of their plugins (because some do not have a specific "stereo" version, only "mono" and "mono/stereo"), these do not work in stereo, and after reading this thread many times searching for a solution, and trying everything mentioned that I could understand, it is still not working in stereo as designed.  Has a solution been discovered since this thread went dark, or is it in the thread, but I have somehow missed it?

Edited by David Terry

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Plugin's with hybrid mono stereo (eg stereo in/mono out) get set to the minimum supported interleave so would get internally set to mono.
I'll look into it for a future update and see if we can improve the handling of this case but its not very simple. 

On 6/9/2019 at 11:31 AM, Blogospherianman said:

Yeah if you change the interleave in the main track view you must toggle the bypass  of that FX or FX bin (or just hit E twice) for the nodes to change.  If the interleave is clicked on from the Inspector or the console view the change is instant.

This is a bug. We'll fix it.

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34 minutes ago, Noel Borthwick said:

Plugin's with hybrid mono stereo (eg stereo in/mono out) get set to the minimum supported interleave so would get internally set to mono.
I'll look into it for a future update and see if we can improve the handling of this case but its not very simple. 

First, thanks for response!  In your example you say "stereo in/mono out" in the case I'm talking about the audio source is mono (my DI guitar track) and the desired output is stereo (interleave settings on track), but the plugin is remaining mono.  And even if use a stereo source (creating a stereo audio file from my original mono file), it forces that to mono as well.  In addition, even if the plugin is bypassed and other stereo plug ins are added (such as Cakewalk's own "Channel Tools") those also get forced into mono.  In fact, removing the Waves mono/stereo effect from the chain doesn't automatically return the track to stereo output even after toggling the effects bin off and on, toggling interleave for the track, and resetting audio and midi.  I have to remove all effects from the bin, toggle everything a few times, and then re-insert stereo effect (e.g. Channel Tools) into bin to get stereo output again.  Just adding information for clarification of my issue.

Edited by David Terry

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