Jump to content
cclarry

DAW Tests on the M1 Processor

Recommended Posts

5 minutes ago, Fleer said:

Two words and a character: Logic Pro X 

Yeehaw 🤠

two words , one trap lol 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Zo said:

two words , one trap lol 

Yeah, but she’s so lovely 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Fleer said:

Yeah, but she’s so lovely 

like always !!!  ;)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, InstrEd said:

When is Logic XXX 🤔 going to be released 😃

Only for pivate guests ....

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No matter how great they are I don't want to get trapped in Apple's Echo system.  I like tinkering with PC hardware.  I've been doing it for 20 years.

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Zo said:

I don't have time right now to write a whole thing about that but to put it simple as possible .

system latency is very dangerous because it doesn't depends on CPU speed , this is basically the time a request ,to cpu access for calculation, waits until the acess is effectif .

This is why on my test for exemple i played 600 tracks on my HP 8560 W while my friend fully loaded MAc pro couldn't while more powerfull ....

This impact the realtime processus capability . Off line rendering is not an issue , that'sw hy all those video randering stuff are useless most of the time ;) 

Anyway , what could cause those hight latency :

1) Bad intergration : i had two computers , a sony vgn bx 97 and an aacer  , same component , sony latency was 10 us !! acer was 800 us ... you know what i mean ;)

2) Process (wifi refershing , ambiant light cencor ,anything that neeed random access to cpu in a constant way)

3) The OS itself (tests have made back then that showed that for exemple on the same MAC pro , same soundcard , same software , same plugins , the latency was 10 times bigger on osx than windows insatlled on it !:!! )

anyway if i say to you ferrari is better than bmw , doesn't mean bmw is crap ..

Issues with MBP other the past

One of the biggest issue with macbooks was heat management (like all laptops in fact pc and macs)

Tehnology have evolved , but physics is physics

Heat formulas is important to undertsand what happened and what will happen 

P = F xV2 x E

P = Heat

F = Frequency of a cpu 

V°2 : is voltage X voltage

E = epsilon , a vaiabels of adjustement (don 't pay attention to that for now) 

So the challenge is keep P low !!!!!!!!

So if you want to gain power

1) you can increase speed , but heat will go up : solution  creation of turbo boost , use speed when needed 

2) more power can be obatined by more cores , but more cores , more power (volatge !!) : solution created : hyperthreading , more "logicol" core while less real physical cores ...

 

Real world scenario (tested i done on my macbook pro back then) 

stress test : wprime witch is the one that comes closer to real daw usage 

wprime 1024 is a heavy series of long calculation , objectif , seeing how the computer performance in long period of stress ( 10 min) 

beginnginof test  : Cpu speed = X (high)  heat = 80 degres

quarter of test  : CPU speed = X (still high) heat 99 degres / Fans maxed out !!

Middle of test : CPU speed =X - 30 % heat 90 degres fans maxed out 

Everything possible only if the power brick on , adn battery fully charged since 90  watt power supply wasn't enougth 

 

Real scneraio for a producer ....

I bengin a session : all good

I stack plugins and plugins , vents start and heat jump , 

I keep staking plugins , heat to hight , cpu downclock , crackles start to happen suddently because you went from a Ferrari to a toyata cpu wise lol 

 

Don't know if i'm clear , but this could be a good discussion for a video live guyz ;) 

Anyway , M1 seems to solved this very problem that made those macs a joke for serious heavy users  , all good for regulkar people  ....

Ahh thanks for explaining.  I did know about the latency you are talking about.  I somehow misunderstood you and thought you were talking about some sort of latency in OS X.  To me, the best thing about the M1 series is that you can run full, heavy duty projects without the throttling, heat, and fan noise.  It seems like, as you point out, a lot of your complaints with macs have been solved now.  You should test one out, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

No matter how great they are I don't want to get trapped in Apple's Echo system.  I like tinkering with PC hardware.  I've been doing it for 20 years.

Ironically, I got into macs because I was tired of tinkering with PCs for the last 25 years,. 😁 and I gotta say, I do like their ecosystem.  I got the phone,  watch , earbuds, and iPad.  The hardware with the software  works great together.  Much better than any windows pc I’ve had (bought/built quite a few). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Hugh Mann said:

Ahh thanks for explaining.  I did know about the latency you are talking about.  I somehow misunderstood you and thought you were talking about some sort of latency in OS X.  To me, the best thing about the M1 series is that you can run full, heavy duty projects without the throttling, heat, and fan noise.  It seems like, as you point out, a lot of your complaints with macs have been solved now.  You should test one out, 

No second ssd and lack of ports makkes it easy to skip'....

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Zo said:

No second ssd and lack of ports makkes it easy to skip'....

Yeah, there are compromises. With hd space, Its either get totally ripped off by Apple for a larger internal ssd  , or go with portable hd .  My solution to the ssd issue is to just connect a portable drive.  I have three. One for kompkete, bfd, etc.  one for time machine, and another for archives. And I have an adapter for my  usbA stuff. Not perfect, but not a deal breaker for me. Especially considering  the other massive benefits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still have an older 6 core Intel build and I loose track of how old it is because it still works for anything i do with it. Probably coming up on 5 years now running win 10 zero issues. I did OC it to 5ghz. This did not make it any louder for cooling and it bumped my performance up a few notches. Someone else might buy a Mac and have the same experience. Most Mac users could not figure out a computer and think Mac is easier to use. For them it probably is.

The difference here as I see it, is that Mac keeps changing things on their users. This has happened for the last 20 years at least. They also demand in house service. This all translates to $$ for them and less $$ for us. 

One of my friends already bought an M1 Mac. He uses it for video and photography. He commented that it can't handle everything he wanted to do with it which I found surprising. His demands are not professional demands.

Apple is always saying, we are changing things follow us and spend $$ or get lost. This is no different. They made a new chip but most DAWS are not coded to run on it.

Who does this cost? Not Apple. If you like Logic Pro maybe it's a winner and apparently some DAWS are beginning to run on it. Most of what the audio recording world is hearing right now though are impressive specs compared to their old machines. Not compared to real world use for the average user in audio mixing. I'm sure they will get others to follow them. The question is, when will they change something up again that makes others scramble to catch up to what they are doing and spend even more $$ in the process. 

And I mentioned this in another thread I think- I'll make a comparison to a car I just bought. The cargo is rated a few mm smaller than some of the competition but it's still a great car and it still does everything I need it to do. I doubt very many people ever notice. Same here.

So I guess the way I see it is, we have a company with a history of planned obsolescence that costs users more $$ offering a new system they hope everyone will follow with new coding for their new chip. Not an easy task BTW for those who have to re write DAW programs or anyone esle making programs for Apple. Who are they initially looking out for in the short term here? APPLE not you. Who are they looking out for in the long term? By more closely controlling what they make they are better sealing their highly enclosed system. Who are they looking out for here. APPLE. Wanna see the same business model eslewhere? Look At Tesla. Tesla owners tell us what happens when the car needs repair. Where can you take it? Tesla only. 

This is probably my primary reason for not gravitating to Apple.

-Tim

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to think they were expensive and underpowered. Avoided them for decades  But after using apple products daily for the last 6 years, I can say that if you can afford it, they are worth it.  It’s a high quality item.  The way the touch pad feels.  The color accuracy of the screen.  How nice it is to look at the screen for hours, The design elements. The components.  Materials.  All working seamlessly with the software.  After dealing with windows and pc bs for over 25 years, it’s really a nice to just get to work.  And I know, someone usually chimes in with “but a properly configured pc..blah blah blah”.  But it doesn’t compare. The quality is there.  I feel they are worth it.  In other words, there is more to  it’s value than straight price comparisons. It’s like a mim fender vs mia.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it all depends on the lenses we choose to see things through. I believe most mac users who crossed over did it back in the pre win 10 days and so they rate their experiences on older models that had occasional issues. I can't say I blame anyone who became frustrated with product A and went to product B. I think it went both ways. I once had a Mac.

New Macs with M1 are a huge improvement in almost every way. As I mentioned, The reason isn't just economic for me, although I am known to be frugal. I don't like the company models and strategy. If Apple were to change and begin to make their computers open to service by others besides just them or offer their OS legally on Hackintoshes, I would probably be more inclined to look at their products. Their way of thinking has actually locked them out of business they could have had and made them more of a niche machine. A more expensive niche.

I don't see the argument for user experience holding water because I can buy any monitor or keyboard I want to buy for my PC. What I think has probably hurt the PC more than anything are flooding the market with low end PCs which was bound to happen in the free market. One organization I work for buys only IBM Thinkcenters for work. These are good computers. I'm still on the same one after over 5 years. These computers are easy to service. Push two buttons on the side and the top flips up to reveal all of the components which mostly plug into sockets.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Define your expectations.

If you expect the M1 to compete with hard-core "workstation" CPUs, it doesn't do that.  

The 5950x smokes the M1.

The new 12900k bests the 5950x both single-core and multi-core.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jim Roseberry said:

Define your expectations.

If you expect the M1 to compete with hard-core "workstation" CPUs, it doesn't do that.  

The 5950x smokes the M1.

The new 12900k bests the 5950x both single-core and multi-core.

And both smoke the laptops they’re in ;)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Fleer said:

And both smoke the laptops they’re in ;)

All about performance expectation...

If you expect workstation type performance, laptops aren't the solution (M1 or otherwise).

Edited by Jim Roseberry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...