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Stuart Smith

Weird issue in Certain section of Midi Track? - Velocity halves

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Hi All, 

I have this issue where in a certain section of a song the velocity  just halves for no reason. 

I've attached a screen shot showing the midi track in question.  

There's a vertical Purple line right where it goes half velocity.  I've  checked the modulation and threes no additional inputs from me.  nothing obvious telling me what's wrong.  I can't delete it, there's no automation lanes of clips nothing. 

When recording this example i held the mod wheel at 127 and it drops right where that line is. it also doesn't  matter what track its on, or what Kontakt Instrument it is.   I can record fine at max velocity  in any other part of the track. 

or what Kontakt Instrument it is. 

anyone know what might be causing it? 

Thanks in advance

S

 

midi1.PNG

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52 minutes ago, Johnny Tsao said:

You can try to open the Event List View to confirm what the vertical purple is.

1092903184_eventlist.png.73d6acf34533cfa367529036a367bfb7.png

Thanks for that, 

looking at the event viewer its saying its modulation

I'm not touching the mod wheel, you see at that start where I move it so its 127 in the image attached

then when it hits  that next note it changes the volume

i'm confused!

midi2.PNG

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3 minutes ago, Johnny Tsao said:

Can you share your project? Or export it as a MIDI file, I can help check it

952897692_exportmidifile.png.a2f5e3c10c995055d74d1eb2d25ad301.png

That's very awesome of you thank you! 

I've attached the offending track. 

Note: in this section of the song it does it on all future tracks at the same point.  

S

ORCHESTRAL1-HELP.mid

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Got it!

This MIDI track contains CC#110 and CC#1 controllers. You can see that the green box is the value of CC#1=49, which is also the vertical purple you see in Track View.

Because CC#1 is used in many Kontakt instruments to control the dynamic range, which is related to volume, loudness or cut-off, etc. This is the reason why you hear the volume decrease.

 

1504613540_1_1.png.2243e1a1225085cb4a84f86fd583cfb4.png

1756443602_1_2.png.39d0e4f7a1e8c0554f413efa831ded1c.png

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1 minute ago, Johnny Tsao said:

Got it!

This MIDI track contains CC#110 and CC#1 controllers. You can see that the green box is the value of CC#1=49, which is also the vertical purple you see in Track View.

Because CC#1 is used in many Kontakt instruments to control the dynamic range, which is related to volume, loudness or cut-off, etc. This is the reason why you hear the volume decrease.

 

1504613540_1_1.png.2243e1a1225085cb4a84f86fd583cfb4.png

1756443602_1_2.png.39d0e4f7a1e8c0554f413efa831ded1c.png

Ok  thats a great explanation thank you. now  how do i fix it? I assume ill just want to use CC1 like the rest of the planet. 

could this be due to faulty mod wheel? as during that track other that at the start to get to 127 i didnt touch it.

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5 minutes ago, Johnny Tsao said:

Try this method...

y8tZI0.gif

 

This is Amazing assistance thank you Johnny, That's fixed the issue with pre recorded midi

when i arm a new track and record it still does it!  so i guess it'll be a matter of recoding it with the issue and editing it all out in that 30seconds of music 

as a work around. 
 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Johnny Tsao said:

That's Great! glad to help! 🙂

now i can get back to writing instead of banging my head against the wall

 

If any one else would like to chime in about how to stop unwanted CC messages going to Midi, I'd love to learn how! 

really only experienced enough for the basics 

cheers

S

Edited by Stuart Smith
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When you are recording MIDI notes, the controller will always appear and be recorded, and you feel annoyed,

you can try to uncheck the input controller during recording in the preferences.

However, please use this feature carefully, because it will block all CC#0-127 controllers and will not be recorded.

cheers!

64326684_uncheckcontroller.png.1ba076da4e74a8246f9158f91c2027a4.png

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4 minutes ago, Johnny Tsao said:

When you are recording MIDI notes, the controller will always appear and be recorded, and you feel annoyed,

you can try to uncheck the input controller during recording in the preferences.

However, please use this feature carefully, because it will block all CC#0-127 controllers and will not be recorded.

cheers!

64326684_uncheckcontroller.png.1ba076da4e74a8246f9158f91c2027a4.png

I see thanks, i just tested it now to see what happens with controller off, basically no modulation, which is sort of important when  trying to write dynamic orchestral pieces of music.  Im still new at this and this is the sort of teething issues while learning you don't find in youtube videos. 

i owe you a beer, or two. thanks so much for your time Johnny :)

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It’s my pleasure.
Hope your Orchestral Pieces of Music is successfully completed.
And happy new year!

Blessings from Taiwan.😀

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24 minutes ago, Johnny Tsao said:

It’s my pleasure.
Hope your Orchestral Pieces of Music is successfully completed.
And happy new year!

Blessings from Taiwan.😀

Thank you Sir, 

and happy new year from Australia.

 

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Just to add to this solved case: occasionally I too get cc7 unwanted controller midi data from my wheel. It seems like a fault on my midi keyboard, which sometimes transmits data on the rest position. I have to delete it afterwards.

Regarding Kontakt: this thread explains why some instruments in Kontakt keep locked to changing volume without the user intervention. I had this issue too, and the solution was very straightforward. https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/how-do-you-keep-the-kontakt-instrument-volume-from-changing.315238/

--- 

Short story:

"I had this issue, my fix was as DarkStar pointed out re your second option:

Click on the wrench > INSTRUMENT OPTIONS > CONTROLLER > Uncheck "Accept standard controllers for Volume and Pan" > CLOSE."

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You need to clean (or replace) the physical potentiometer  of Mod wheel / Pitch bend inside your MIDI controller when this kind of problem occurs.
Most of the time it happens with cheap MIDI controller after some considerable time. If it's new (under warranty), return it to the shop & ask for replacement.

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27 minutes ago, James Argo said:

You need to clean (or replace) the physical potentiometer  of Mod wheel / Pitch bend inside your MIDI controller when this kind of problem occurs.
Most of the time it happens with cheap MIDI controller after some considerable time. If it's new (under warranty), return it to the shop & ask for replacement.

Thanks, James.

Yes, indeed I opened the unit and cleaned as much as I could, but to no avail...

Is it easy to replace the potentiometer? 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the additional suggestions and input. 

Mines a Lauchkey 25 and new so not super expensive and was a gift from a DJ friend  who upgraded recently. 

I might just replace it with a new one to rule that out as an issue causer. 

i'll also try that optioned edit in kontakt. thanks all!

Edited by Stuart Smith

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Andres Medina said:

Thanks, James.

Yes, indeed I opened the unit and cleaned as much as I could, but to no avail...

Is it easy to replace the potentiometer? 

Honestly, "cleaning" may only work if the main problem is dirty. However, in case the contact carbon inside the potentiometer worn out, you need to replace it.
In theory, you only need basic skill in soldering to detach the wires and replace the potentiometer. In most cases the real problem is to find the right replacement (size, shape, and value), opening the case (which will break any waranty), disassemble the wheel units, and re-assemble the unit after you've replaced the pot. Expect many unusual screws, tightening plates and hot glue here and there sometime. You need to do it precisely, or the wheel will work in unexpected way. 🙂

Edited by James Argo

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