Frans van den Berge Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 HUI and Mackie Control are still the major remote control protocols. I would love to see native HUI support. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 @Frans van den Berge, I agree so much with your idea I submitted the same request April 12, 2019. You can view the post here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted June 3, 2019 Share Posted June 3, 2019 Just out of interest, are you guys using a real HUI. or is it another controller that uses the HUI protocol? The reason I ask, is I was looking at implementing it in more detail. I think I can do most of what the MCU supports without any issue, but it may be missing functions specific to the HUI controller that weren't migrated over to the MCU. It's still early days though, and I'm unsure how much free time I'll have to work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 @Frans van den Berge, @fogle622 expect an announcement from me regarding HUI support within the next week or two.... I've got most things working, but it's not quite stable yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 On 6/3/2019 at 6:07 AM, msmcleod said: Just out of interest, are you guys using a real HUI. or is it another controller that uses the HUI protocol? The reason I ask, is I was looking at implementing it in more detail. I think I can do most of what the MCU supports without any issue, but it may be missing functions specific to the HUI controller that weren't migrated over to the MCU. It's still early days though, and I'm unsure how much free time I'll have to work on it. Mike, I don't have a controller so implementing HUI will not directly affect me at this time. Traditionally, Sonar\Cakewalk has embraced controller protocol support. HUI appears to be a comprehensive controller protocol that is enjoying new popularity among manufacturers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azslow3 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 On 6/5/2019 at 2:15 AM, fogle622 said: HUI appears to be a comprehensive controller protocol that is enjoying new popularity among manufacturers. Any reference for such statement? Modern controllers usually do not support old protocols at all on hardware side (Ableton oriented, NI, Nektar), try to mimic completely (Behringer) or partially (Presonus, Icon, NI Machine) MCU. Some specify "HUI" in addition, just as "ProTools compatibility". Unlike "MCU" clones I have not observed "HUI" clones (note that original device has different from MCU physical layout). Mackie and HUI protocols have fixed number of channel, no support for TFT displays, touch sensitive knobs nor colored LEDs. EUCON pretend to be more universal, but it is hard to support on both sides. In practice all that make no sense since controllers are connected with USB/Ethernet and so can follow whatever protocol they want (== what is cheaper to implement for defined set of hardware elements). The rest can be done in a proprietary (or open) driver (including conversion to old protocols, usually with limitations). F.e. Behringer while using Ethernet and sending MIDI messages throw it has not bothered to implement any "common" MIDI over ethernet solution. Why pay money for licenses, develop special firmware and get all sort of complains "your XXX implementation does not work with YYY?". "Proprietary" is the trend in modern controllers. So "we do what we want, you are with us or we do not care about you" style. The openness vary. Some give protocols for free (Ableton), some do not open anything (Nektar), other can allow you to communicated with the device throw proprietary driver if you ask kindly (NI). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I have to agree with @azslow3 here. There's nothing particularly comprehensive about the HUI protocol. It's incredibly chatty compared to MCU, and if you look at the history, HUI is basically a legacy protocol. Mackie originally developed the HUI for ProTools. They then developed the Logic Control, which was later updated to become the MCU. The Mackie MCU & MCU Pro have backwards compatibility for HUI & Logic Control simply to provide an update path for those users. HUI is a format for ProTools. Any manufacturer that supports it is only doing so for ProTools users. If you do have a HUI only controller, then an implementation is not far off. I've got most MCU equivalent buttons, faders & metering, and jog wheel working. V-pot controls need more work, as does the the v-pot ring display & other displays, i.e. 4 char channel scratch display (and I thought 7 chars on the MCU was bad!!), and the time display. If you're really impatient and can't wait, PM me and I'll let you have a preview copy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azslow3 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 BTW I have checked HUI with AZ Controller. I could only test with HUI emulation of Novation Nocturn (no display, only part of strip controls). I had to make AZ Controller more tolerant to mixed use of CC messages, but I had no problems otherwise. Logic Control Protocol is officially (and openly) documented (in early Emagic Control documentation), but HUI is still "proprietary". Some manufacturers have failed to find Logic Protocol (f.e. initially Icon), I guess HUI implementation in some "compatible" devices is even worse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Now available for download... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 @azslow3 My main reference is the HUI Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_User_Interface_Protocol I originally became interested in the subject after reading about the release of the Novation SLMkIII controller: https://novationmusic.com/keys/sl-mkiii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwal³ Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 On 6/5/2019 at 2:15 AM, fogle622 said: Mike, Traditionally, Sonar\Cakewalk has embraced controller protocol support. jim, i have to respectfully disagree here - cakewalk (the company) stopped adding (new) controller support years ago, to the point where frustrated users convinced them to release the sdk so people like azslow3 could develop their own controller plugin... /fwiw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fogle Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) @pwalpwal, I agree with you that the developers have not added support for an additional controller protocol in some time. But we shouldn't overlook or dismiss the body of work performed in the past. A lot of time development will broadly focus on different areas. The focus may shift as first audio is the primary focus, then the main focus may move to midi, then gui and so on. Just because there has not been any recent Sonar controller protocol developments does not mean that future controller protocol development is not desired or planned. We've already seen a Cakewalk poll asking forum members to vote and help set development priorities. Edited June 7, 2019 by fogle622 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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