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IgoRr

Group TRACK

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Hi!
I wanted to propose an option: create a "Group track" similar to other DAWs, eg. - Cubase. Currently you can create groups only through "Point Patch - AUX track" or creating new BUS, it is no problem, but it would be much more convenient and faster to have a direct option to specifically create a Group TRACK with all the requirements and routing available in audio track.

Thanks in advance!

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15 hours ago, IgoRr said:

 "Point Patch - AUX track" or creating new BUS, it is no problem, but it would be much more convenient and faster to have a direct option to specifically create a Group TRACK with all the requirements and routing available in audio track.

I am not sure we need more than the tools already available. You can already create Quick Groups and easily route audio through Busses or Aux Tracks like you say, and you can also assign tracks to Folders.

How would a Group Track make this already simple process easier ?

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@Mark MoreThan-Shaw  As I already said, in Cubase, you can assign routing of several tracks to the "Group" track with one click, and the outputs from these tracks are directed to this one track. I repeat - all this with one click! Yes, you can create buses, as it works now, but the buses are in a different section and have their own characteristics, but through the patch point it takes longer and not everyone will do it right. Folders - are not at all what I was talking about, it's just a visual organization of tracks, and I meant routing, and the Cubase example is the most illustrative.

Edited by IgoRr

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38 minutes ago, IgoRr said:

@Mark MoreThan-Shaw  As I already said, in Cubase, you can assign routing of several tracks to the "Group" track with one click, and the outputs from these tracks are directed to this one track. I repeat - all this with one click! 

I've never used Cubase as it requires a dongle even for a trial. Although I gather that might be changing going forward.Is this what you mean ?

I mean that's pretty much the same as creating a buss in CBB . The only difference I can see is it creates the buss from the selection instead of how you would do it in CBB by creating the buss first and then assigning which ever tracks you want to it. 

The number of steps required looks about the same , you just do them in a different order. My busses are in my default template so I never need to create them anyway.

Just select my tracks the exact same way as the Cubase guy, go to tracks - selected track outputs and it's done. I don't see much difference betwen the two workflows.

image.png.82566676c33fffb6bcbefabab5f84dd4.png

Edited by Mark MoreThan-Shaw

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@Mark MoreThan-Shaw   

Yes, this video shows exactly what I mean. I do not work in Cubase because for me Sonar (today's Cakewalk) has always been and will remain the best DAW. I started working with old versions of Cakewalk Pro Audio (4; 5 etc.), but then I had to work in a musical group where was Cubase v4.2 many years ago. And it was then that I ran into the problem of the dongle, because of which the licensed (!!!) Cubase did not work as it should. And after that, I got acquainted with Sonar 3, and I never even thought and did not think to change DAW!

As for the convenience and speed of work, you did not pay attention to the fact that in Cubase, when creating a Group track, the final track itself is created with one click, and all routing of outputs from the designated tracks is automatically organized, that is, LITERALLY EVERYTHING is done in 1 click, more no further action is required. In addition, if we talk about the bus, then I cannot create an aux track and send the output from the bus to it, and this is a very important function, this is the first limitation. Well, I repeat again - it is much more convenient to have group tracks in the same space as regular tracks, from any point of view it is both clearer and more convenient.

But it would be possible to send outputs from several group tracks (as well as from individual tracks) to the buses, in my opinion, this configuration is much more versatile and convenient.

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1 hour ago, IgoRr said:

LITERALLY EVERYTHING is done in 1 click, more no further action is required. I

It's not really a one click process according to the video. Once the selection is made...

Right Click on one of the selected..that's one 

Choose Add Group Channel to Selected Chanels ...two 

Choose Stereo or Mono...three 

Name it and press OK...four clicks...you could argue it's maybe 3 if it defaults to stereo and you don't need to select it.

.....VS CBB

Insert Buss...one

Make track selection ( we don't count this step in either example )

Click Tracks from the header menu...two 

image.png.0e7391ee7398c7eb261dd583ec0f8072.png

Click Selected Track Outputs..three

image.png.cd27bf4e4c3b061d0223a8164a4bf81c.png

Select buss from dropdown and click OK ..four...so it's maybe 1 click more at most. If you have a template with busses already set up ( like I have ) then it's only 3 steps.

Seems to me that the steps are pretty similar in both DAWs, they are just in a different order so I'm not sure it warrants a whole new breed of track types being introduced.

If you feel the above is too many steps then something that doesn't involve any major changes to the DAW but would endhance the workflow in this scenario would simply be to add a new entry to the right click menu in the track area.

" Add Selected Tracks To New Buss " then it would simplify the process without adding more complexity.

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@Mark MoreThan-Shaw 

Are you trying to dissuade me? I mean by one click the last action, after selecting several tracks, and these actions have to be done in Cakewalk too. But in Cakewalk, after sending the selected tracks to the bus, you still need to perform several actions to select and route the outputs from these tracks, and in Cubase this has already been done when you click "OK" after assigning to a group track.

But I'm not only talking about the number of clicks, but also about the advantages of an audio (group) track over a bus in terms of routing and location, or do you not understand this? I will repeat once again: after ALL (!!!) 2 or 3 preliminary actions in Cakewalk, already AFTER adding to the bus, you still need to do a few more steps to route the outputs from the selected tracks, and in Cubase this is ALREADY implemented at the moment of pressing "OK".

Edited by IgoRr

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41 minutes ago, IgoRr said:

Are you trying to dissuade me?

Not at all  - I'm just putting  forward a reasoned counter argument as someone who uses Cakewalk a lot more than most.

41 minutes ago, IgoRr said:

 But in Cakewalk, after sending the selected tracks to the bus, you still need to perform several actions to select and route the outputs 

Any bus created is automatically routed to the Master bus by default.....where else do you want it routed ?  I see no extra steps here ?

41 minutes ago, IgoRr said:

But I'm not only talking about the number of clicks, but also about the advantages of an audio (group) track over a bus in terms of routing and location, or do you not understand this? 

 As mentioned I've never used Cubase.  I've tried S1 - Reaper  - Bitwig - DP - Logic - PT - Garageband - Mixcraft -  Samplitude and was  long time Music X user, so no I don't know the advantages of a Group Track as offered in Cubase..the guy in the video called it a bus ...so I presume it's very similar. If it isn't you haven't exapined how or why it's different and what the percieved advantages are. New track types are rarely introduced into mature DAWs and there's good reason for it.

41 minutes ago, IgoRr said:

you still need to do a few more steps to route the outputs from the selected tracks, and in Cubase this is ALREADY implemented at the moment of pressing "OK".

 I don't think there are any more steps..maybe one step at most, which could be elimintated by adding a right click option to create new bus from selected tracks. Faster still would be using a project template with everything bussed  the way you want it. So ulitmately you have a lot less steps over the course of multiple projects.

The layout of channels and busses follows the paradigm of harware mixer topology, so it makes sense from that perspective. 

Edited by Mark MoreThan-Shaw

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@Mark MoreThan-Shaw   

Apparently, due to the mechanical translator, you do not understand what I am saying.

I have already repeated several times that the bus is really similar (!!!) to a track, but this is not the same thing, and gave a specific limitation of the impossibility of sending the output from the bus to the aux track, and besides, I will repeat once again: group the track would be much more convenient to be in the location of tracks, and not buses, because you still have to open another window with buses.

In the aggregate of actions, the group track would be much more convenient and much faster in creating and routing, you simply cannot understand this, because you have not tried Cubase, and you cannot compare in this video.

And yes, I consider Cakewalk to be one of the best DAWs of all time, but if you add a few practical features to it, it can become the very best! That is why I am trying to offer practical tools.

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11 minutes ago, IgoRr said:

 because you still have to open another window with buses.

 You dont need to open another window. They are right there on the same screen if you want them to be. 

image.thumb.png.ba819dd45623908596afd79c18cd01e6.png

image.thumb.png.bf361733f105f41389c1da1474aac555.png

Edited by Mark MoreThan-Shaw

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Use aux tracks instead of busses and Cakewalk will do exactly the same thing. You can totally ignore the bus pane if you want to, and do all your submixing and fx sends with aux tracks. 

 

aux tracks 2.png

Aux Tracks.PNG

Edited by Light Grenade

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@Mark MoreThan-Shaw   

And what did you want to prove with this screen? You have ALL (!!!) tracks closed, and all (!!!) buses closed, but how to work in the editing process when all tracks are open and the entire visible space is occupied by 5-6 tracks, even a little open? And with the tires it is exactly the same - if you open 2-3 tires a little, the whole screen will already be full. And literally every action to scale tracks or open / close the bus section already leads to a slowdown, which I have been talking about all this time.

Well, okay, you did not understand my main idea at all, and focused on comparing the location of the tracks and tires.

Edited by IgoRr

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@Light Grenade

As for the aux tracks on your screenshots - try to send the OUTPUT from any BUS to the INPUT of the created AUX track, you won't succeed, I've already tried it many times. That's why I'm talking about the limitations of working with tires compared to tracks.

Edited by IgoRr

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4 minutes ago, IgoRr said:

@Light Grenade

As for the aux tracks on your screenshots - try to send the OUTPUT from any bus to the INPUT of the created AUX track, you won't succeed, I've already tried it many times. That's why I'm talking about the limitations of working with tires compared to tracks.

I have just checked this, and you can send the output of any bus to the input of any aux track. Furthermore, you can send the output of any aux track to the input of another aux track. 

I have all my kicks sending to a kick aux, and the kick aux then sending to a drum bus aux. In some cases I have chains of 3 or 4 aux tracks. It definitely works. 

image_2021-12-09_162922.png

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22 hours ago, IgoRr said:

Hi!
I wanted to propose an option: create a "Group track" similar to other DAWs, eg. - Cubase. Currently you can create groups only through "Point Patch - AUX track" or creating new BUS, it is no problem, but it would be much more convenient and faster to have a direct option to specifically create a Group TRACK with all the requirements and routing available in audio track.

Thanks in advance!

Example:

To just Highlight the tracks to be grouped and with a flick of a right click, from anywhere in the window you select GROUP THESE TRACKS? 

Like the option for inserting an AUX or BUS Track, but in this case - a "GROUP  TRACKS?" 

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@Light Grenade

Only you forget that to get INPUT from the BUS to the AUX track, you have to assign the OUT from the bus to this AUX track, and then what is the use of the created chain? I need an option as with ordinary audio tracks - when the output from the track goes to the master (for example), but you can also add sending to the AUX track, or do you not understand why this is needed?

In addition, all the same, buses and tracks are in different sections in the interface, I already answered this to another interlocutor, but you do not understand this either. I need to work comfortably and quickly, and I learned how to work with both hands at the same time, and I can say for sure that if you add group tracks, you can work even faster.

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@Will_Kaydo

GROUP THESE TRACKS lets you easily control volume, pan, and more. at the same time, but does not apply to routing, don't you know? Moreover, in Cakewalk, you can easily do all this even without creating groups of tracks, highlighting the necessary tracks and holding down the CTRL key. This is not at all about that.

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9 minutes ago, IgoRr said:

You have ALL (!!!) tracks closed, and all (!!!) buses closed, but how to work in the editing process when all tracks are open and the entire visible space is occupied by 5-6 tracks, even a little open?

Closed ? Do you mean the Pro-Channel ?  I never have it open because I don't really use it very much.  All I use is the HP & LP filter from the EQ.  I normally do that in the Inspector on the track view because I do it when I add the instrument. I mix as I write as it's quicker and I do most of the mixing in the track view.

Cakewalk never had a Pro-Channel when I started using it more seriously, so I have my own preferred plugins for everything.

But you can open and close all Pro-Channels simultaneously using the quick groups.

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23 hours ago, IgoRr said:

Hi!
I wanted to propose an option: create a "Group track" similar to other DAWs, eg. - Cubase.

What you've said here, is what i've asked. 😕 Just trying to understand what you mean. No need to be rude!

I know all that small things you've just mentioned.

Edited by Will_Kaydo

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