chrismohr Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I have a complex microtonal computer program system a geek friend built for me off of Sonar 2.2, which could then be used by me to compose in 53-eq. It is so customized, no other program or version can make it work. My computer died, and my tech friend also passed away last year. I have torn my house apart and can't find the original 2.2 program, and it is so old, BandLab doesn't have access to a copy of it either. Does anyone have the old disc for Sonar 2.2? I was a Cakewalk customer, doing updates from the late 1980s to 2017. Would love your help any way you can! This is the book I just published using that customized program: http://53music.us Thank you, Chris Mohr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) Sorry, I made the jump straight to Sonar 3 from Sonar 1XL. There's one on eBay at the moment - it's the Japanese version though. Maybe someone at Cakewalk can confirm whether it has the option to install in English or not. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cakewalk-SONAR-2-0-Japanese-DAW-Sequencer-Cakewalk-2-0-DAW/273824412366?hash=item3fc134f2ce:g:h3MAAOSw19dcjaSO Edited May 3, 2019 by msmcleod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razor7music Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) Hey @chrismohr You know, I just might have the DVD's to Sonar 2.2. (I'm a bit of a pack rat when it comes to software). Let me check when I get home. I see that my purchase history on Cakewalk.com has SONAR X2 Producer. Would that work in case I don't have 2.2? BTW--is there anything I need to be concerned about breaking my EULA if I make a copy? Edited May 3, 2019 by razor7music 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 39 minutes ago, razor7music said: Hey @chrismohr You know, I just might have the DVD's to Sonar 2.2. (I'm a bit of a pack rat when it comes to software). Let me check when I get home. I see that my purchase history on Cakewalk.com has SONAR X2 Producer. Would that work in case I don't have 2.2? BTW--is there anything I need to be concerned about breaking my EULA if I make a copy? X2 is VERY different from Sonar 2.2, Sonar 2.2 came on CD not DVD, and it needs a Serial Number as well as a CD Key to install. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razor7music Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, msmcleod said: X2 is VERY different from Sonar 2.2, Sonar 2.2 came on CD not DVD, and it needs a Serial Number as well as a CD Key to install. Oh, wait. You're right. The 'X' started at what would have been 10. So X2 would have been 12 not 2. My bad. Funny thing is, I might have Sonar 2.2 CD's. I'll check when I get home. --Still, any EULA issues?-- Edited May 3, 2019 by razor7music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartabartfast Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I would think the main issue with the EULA would primarily have to do with how the copy is activated. In those days it was a printed activation code or serial number or some such that came with the packaging. If the OP still has access to the code he got with his original licensed copy, he should be able to activate it from any copy of the installation disc for the identical version and it would still be under his own original license. If he has to use your activation code, then technically you may be considered to be transferring your license to him, which as far as I can recall was always forbidden with Cakewalk products. If the OP can prove he has a valid license to the software, then a reasonable licensor might consider that someone providing the installation media to him did not violate the spirit of the license. The creation of archival copies of installation media is often forbidden by boilerplate licensing contracts, and is addressed in copyright law (17 U.S. Code § 117). People often think that the law permits them to distribute copies of the software they own to others (which is different than transferring the license), but in fact the law by itself only permits a backup copy to be made for the use of the original owner, and requires that any copies be destroyed or transferred with the original if the software is legally transferred. So just making the copy with the intent to transfer it to someone else might run afoul of copyright law in addition to the EULA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Another one available 2nd hand: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/801547765-USE/cakewalk_10cwsr20010c_sonar_2_2_software.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Argo Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I still have the CD, (and I made the ISO backup), however I don't think it's legal to share it (even the backup installation). If I'm not mistaken, it was the first time Cakewalk support VST by native. The goodies in the bundle are awesome, I keep using some of them til these days. The Blue Jay Drums kit.. Aaah those days of soundfonts... 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBH Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I recall there was a critical patch in Version 2 as well . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razor7music Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) Yeah. I've got the Sonar 2.2 XL CD. Photo Edited May 4, 2019 by razor7music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 7 hours ago, James Argo said: I still have the CD, (and I made the ISO backup), however I don't think it's legal to share it (even the backup installation). If I'm not mistaken, it was the first time Cakewalk support VST by native. The goodies in the bundle are awesome, I keep using some of them til these days. The Blue Jay Drums kit.. Aaah those days of soundfonts... 😀 Not so much native but there was the separate program called the VST adapter. I still love that old 2.2 GUI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 10 hours ago, James Argo said: I still have the CD, (and I made the ISO backup), however I don't think it's legal to share it (even the backup installation). For the benefit of these inquiries that come up from time to time here, and people who wonder about the consequences of possibly misusing their installation media for old versions of Sonar, I'd like to point some things out. None of it, as you will see if you (not likely) read it is legal advice, and I'm not a lawyer. It's mostly stuff that everyone knows but doesn't stop to consider. If someone has greater knowledge of IP, contract, and civil law and anything I say isn't true, please let me know. (James, this isn't directed at you specifically, more anyone who's pondering what they might do in this situation) When it comes to software, typically what the license agreement covers is the use of the ones and zeroes on the media, not the media itself, except for using it in ways that encourage illegal copying. In other words, you can't mount the disk as a network share and put it on the Internet for people to download, you can't burn copies for people to use to make unlicensed installations, etc. The OP (presumably) purchased a license to use the program. Software EULA's even back then typically didn't come with any prohibitions regarding what could be done with the physical media the program came on, merely the contents of it. Usually, there was language explicitly permitting these contents to be backed up (backing up of media became a consumer right granted by a court decision). Unless Sonar had unusual language in its licensing agreement, there should not have been any prohibition against using the installation media to install a copy of the software for the purpose of activating it with another legal license. If such were the case, then companies who purchased multiple copies would have been presumably bound by it to maintain all their original installation media and implement tracking to make sure that each originally-supplied CD-ROM was used to install the program on one single licensed workstation at a time. When I was still working my IT day job 20 years ago I knew of no software that didn't allow for sharing a copy of the installation media among multiple computers as long as the target computer was licensed to use the contents. Activation may have depended on information encoded into the media, but again, 20 years ago I knew of no company, especially not in consumer software, that was still doing this. This means that you can use your installation media any way you wish, as colorful shiny mobiles, drink coasters, to install multiple legally-licensed copies in your studio complex, whatever, just never for installing unlicensed or improperly licensed copies of its contents. Next, even if it could somehow be shown to be against the terms of the license agreement to use the media (or a copy of its contents) for the purpose of installing a legally licensed copy on a 3rd parties computer, that wouldn't make it "illegal" in the same way that shoplifting or stealing a car is illegal. By which I mean that if some law enforcement agency somehow learned about someone doing it ("stealing SONAR? I think you want to talk to the FCC or Coast Guard about that"), they would not take steps to prevent it or punish it. The injured party (presumably the now-defunct Cakewalk, Inc.) would have to lawyer up and take them to court to obtain whatever damages they thought they were entitled to. In a case of the action being against the EULA, that might be the list price of a single seat license plus whatever attorney's fees. Any decent defense attorney would make mincemeat out of the plaintiffs on the basis that no harm whatsoever was done, therefore, no damages. No court is going to make someone pay damages because they helped someone out whose hard drive and the company that made their installation media died. The current owners of the Cakewalk and Sonar brands and most of the intellectual property on the disc give away the main part of it for free. For the bundled software, the situation would be the same as described above (except probably with even fewer restrictions): they don't care as long as the installation is legal, and if they did, they would have to find out about your misdeed, hunt you down, and take you to a court that would promptly throw the whole thing out. If all of the oddball things somehow happened, someone was taken to court by ZombieCakewalk Inc. and lost, they'd be told to pay what the court decided and that's it. No criminal record, no cops hunting them down. And when I say "be told to pay," that's all the court does. Tells the losing party they are obligated to pay. It falls back to the winning party to actually try to collect. (BandLab could maybe theoretically take someone to court over a broken Sonar license, but given the current licensing scheme for Cakewalk, that seems....unlikely) That's what I have to say about possible legal consequences. As far as moral questions? The company that wrote the agreement no longer exists. People who bought their licenses expecting not to have to worry about losing their media because Cakewalk, Inc. had been around for 20 years already and didn't seem to be going anywhere are who I'd consider to have taken a beating. The EULA, if it did have language preventing legal installations to 3rd-party computers, and it probably didn't, was written under the assumption that situations like this would never occur, that someone like the OP would be able to phone up and get a replacement disk for a nominal fee. That, of course, is no longer true. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwal³ Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 unfortunately, v2 was the only sonar i never bought! (was still too busy discovering v1 XL...) good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starship Krupa Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 @chrismohr 53 tones? Interesting. Condolences on the loss of your friend. Being of the geek persuasion myself I'm very curious what about your system "breaks" if you try to use it with a later version of Sonar or CbB. I assume that it's a combined hardware and software system. Are there plug-ins or external programs that are having a hard time coexisting with Sonar/CbB? Hardware? Cakewalk's legendary scripting? If you stick around and ask and answer a few questions, maybe the forum hive mind could help get it so that your system is not tied to just this one dot-release of a defunct program. It seems a shame if you could no longer do your specialized composing work using this system that you and your friend probably put a lot of effort into setting up. One thing: you say that your "computer" died. By that do you mean that the system disk and the drive (if different) where your installation of Sonar X2.2 reside were rendered unreadable? If not, you may be able to improve your situation by removing the drive(s) and installing them in a working system, at least just long enough to make backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William W. Saunders, Jr. Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I have the same sort of questions as Krupa. What in your old system setup for Sonar 2.2 was so unique that the backwards compatibility of later versions wont handle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razor7music Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 I guess the OP didn't expect too much success since they haven't posted back since all of these excellent replies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckebaby Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I've run into similar walls trying resurrect old projects. Sometimes its better to cut your losses then put money/resources into a dinosaur. This is also another great reason to back up all your Midi files in a separate folder. A lot of great suggestions on this thread. Hope you can make it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmcleod Posted May 5, 2019 Share Posted May 5, 2019 I've resurrected projects from as far back as Pro Audio 7 & 9 & Sonar 1XL by first loading it into Sonar X3 & saving it again. For the odd problem project, I've had to resort to X1 or Sonar 8.5, but X3 seems to work for most. However, the OP hasn't really given much details regarding customisation. If it's some binary hack, maybe even Sonar 2.2 XL might not work, and Sonar 2.2 standard is his only choice. In saying that, I can't remember if the XL version was actually a different program, or just had extra content. If it's a studioware panel, then anything from Sonar 3 to Sonar 8.5 should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismohr Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 5/3/2019 at 11:39 AM, msmcleod said: Sorry, I made the jump straight to Sonar 3 from Sonar 1XL. There's one on eBay at the moment - it's the Japanese version though. Maybe someone at Cakewalk can confirm whether it has the option to install in English or not. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cakewalk-SONAR-2-0-Japanese-DAW-Sequencer-Cakewalk-2-0-DAW/273824412366?hash=item3fc134f2ce:g:h3MAAOSw19dcjaSO Hmm, maybe not Japanese. Will keep looking! Thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismohr Posted May 5, 2019 Author Share Posted May 5, 2019 On 5/3/2019 at 2:08 PM, razor7music said: Hey @chrismohr You know, I just might have the DVD's to Sonar 2.2. (I'm a bit of a pack rat when it comes to software). Let me check when I get home. I see that my purchase history on Cakewalk.com has SONAR X2 Producer. Would that work in case I don't have 2.2? BTW--is there anything I need to be concerned about breaking my EULA if I make a copy? Sonar 2.2 is the only possible one I can use. I doubt there will be a legal problem but will check with my BandLab helper. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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