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Starship Krupa

"Upgraded" to Windows 10, Cakewalk performance has suffered greatly

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WRONG. You can only turn off Notifications. Windows update ALWAYS runs in the background. Windows 10 Pro allows you to "defer" major version releases. "Defer" i.e. to "put off",

 Windows Update which will and does download updates in the background as unobtrusively as it can.

If "Power" scheme option is  left to "Balanced", Windows equally "Shares" computer resources with "Applications".

If you select "High Performance" mode Windows give "priority", but certainly not ALL resources to the application. And this is about the only choice you have to give your DAW priority over Windows

 And NEVER ONCE will you ever be  interrupted or intruded upon and forced to update while  you are working.

 Choosing "Metered Connection" is only putting like putting a Band-Aid on a mortal wound, you still have to updates Windows, but at least it helps train Windows users to specifically pick a time when you aren't working on your computer so Windows can update to patch and fix holes.

 I've found the best time to do this is around the beginning of "Patch Tuesday" and Wednesday morning works for me. Simply let the computer run, OVER NIGHT or any time you are NOT using it, and reboot in the morning or when you want to start using it again.

Do that and you'll never have to worry about Windows 10 maintaining itself ever again..

Edited by Steev

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On ‎1‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 5:08 PM, mdiemer said:

Great conversation, I love this stuff.  Musicians being musicians. and computer experts (if there is there such a thing anymore). I hope the mods aren't tempted to intervene. This kind of stuff pumps life into a forum like this. And it's quite tame compared to other places. Let the show go on!

I agree, except I would agree more if it was busted up into "Multiple" conversations, as in separate threads before it became so off course from the original convertation it morphed into a political conversation based on who has the most friends or bigger dick..

 Jeeze, that's exactly why I don't have a Twitter account. 😣

BTW, did anyone even find a solution to @Starship Krupa GUI latency problem with CbB? I almost forgot that was what we were talking about...🤔

Edited by Steev

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26 minutes ago, Steev said:

I agree, except I would agree more if it was busted up into "Multiple" conversations, as in separate threads before it became so off course from the original convertation it morphed into a political conversation based on who has the most friends or bigger dick..

 Jeeze, that's exactly why I don't have a Twitter account. 😣

BTW, did anyone even find a solution to @Starship Krupa GUI latency problem with CbB? I almost forgot that was what we were talking about...🤔

Steev, you should have your own subforum on here! You da MAN!!! Nobody's gonna stop that Microsoft telemetry!!

The weenie wagging in this thread has been ferocious and hilarious. I've lost track of which audio interfaces are supposed to be the best and which way we're supposed to connect them and everything, but it's awesome.

I'm gonna plug my Hocus Pocus by Focus Rite in to my PCIe USB3 Thunderbolt and Lighting very very frightning Galileo PC Manic Depressive fiber optic Window Pro Insider Telemetric Eccentric Octopreamp and then go into the mountains and meditate for a year while my computer stabilizes itself, and then after that my latency is gonna be so low that I won't be able to software monitor because the damn cans will be playing what I'm about to play before I even play it! I'll have NEGATIVE LATENCY!!!!

It confirms my belief that I made the right decision when I bought a pair of Presonus interfaces that were already obsolete when I got them from a guy on Craig's List a couple of years ago. He dropped one of them when he was pulling them out of his storage container, so I got him to knock $20 off the price. It worked when I got it home though. They connect via Firewire 400. I use the built-in preamps. When I was running Windows 7 I could get them to go down to 2ms without going "brrrrrt." Mostly they stayed at 4ms.

My system has settled down since I first pulled an older nVidia GPU that I suspect of having drivers that were too old for Windows 10, and second, turning off Defender's realtime scanning. I want to find an inexpensive replacement for the nVidia, because now the graphics look like poo. Unfortunately, graphics cards are all about 3-D performance and pay no mind to 2-D performance, which is what I am most interested in. I figure the humblest $30 card should be fine for my aging Optiplex, but I don't know what to get.

As for Cakewalk I've been studying that Play lag thing in greater depth with the help of Resource Monitor. It may have something to do with my settings when I'm tracking projects with many takes like my friend Geoff was doing when he was here over the holidays.

I don't want to go into great detail just yet, but this one project of his wound up with 12 tracks. However, each of those 12 tracks had as many as 10 takes that were still sitting there with their lanes muted, clips muted, whatever, in case he changed his mind about comping. When we hit the spacebar to start the transport, Cakewalk (I could see this via Resource Monitor) started streaming audio files that were only in muted lanes and clips. I'm not sure it's supposed to do that. Either that or I'm not sure that Geoff was managing his unused takes correctly. I'm still experimenting with different settings and observing the effect on performance. I will report my findings to the forum when they are more fully found.

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@Starship Krupa Ah MANNN..... Now ya made me laugh coffee out of my nostril holes, but that's OK  because all missed my computer keyboard.

 

So umm, did you try "Freezing" all the audio tracks with all those multiple takes and see if that fixes the problem????

OMG could it be that simple? 😂

Yep, the possibility exists...……….

Edited by Steev

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35 minutes ago, Steev said:

@Starship Krupa Ah MANNN..... Now ya made me laugh coffee out of my nostril holes, but that's OK  because all missed my computer keyboard.

 

So umm, did you try "Freezing" all the audio tracks with all those multiple takes and see if that fixes the problem????

OMG could it be that simple? 😂

Yep, the possibility exists...……….

I haven't yet, but I did hit the button that turns off all the effects. What I am doing is systematically deleting those lanes and watching what happens with the response and with the Resource Monitor action.

As I say, still working on it. Thanks for the idea on freezing, I'll have to go back to an early version of the project and give that a try. It would be interesting to see what happens. If the problem really is that it's dragging around too many unused takes, if freezing affects it.

Geoff is a take-a-holic, that's for sure. I have sat him down at the kit and gone back into my shop to work on amps and he's bashed away, I go back in and there are 25 takes of drums piled up, and he wants to keep them all "for comping." That's 100 lanes! Good thing I only use 4 mics! But people like that are great for testing the limits. I'm forever asking him "can I delete these??" It was a real hoot with Mixcraft, which doesn't have collapsible lanes.

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6 hours ago, Steev said:

WRONG. You can only turn off Notifications. Windows update ALWAYS runs in the background. Windows 10 Pro allows you to "defer" major version releases. "Defer" i.e. to "put off",

Dude, with all respect, you are just 100% wrong about this.  I have been using Windows 10 Pro for 2.5 years, and Windows never updates until I ask it to check for updates.

There is a policy setting in "Group Policy Editor" that lets you completely 100% disable automatic updating, as well as the notifications.   I have never in 2.5 years had a Windows update that ran without me first clicking on "check for updates". Of course, I always take a full Macrium Reflect image before I push that button.

Group Policy Editor > Local Computer Policy > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > All Settings > Configure Automatic Updates

1692478440_Windowsupdategrouppolicy.PNG.866a68dec29d24cbe1907c9186395a39.PNG

The text highlighted in blue in the image above explains how the policy works if it is set to "disabled".   I am quoting it here for clarity because it seems that embedded screen captures on this forum have a max width of 400 pixels. Too small to read.

Quote

If the status for this policy is set to Disabled, any updates that are available on Windows Update must be downloaded and installed manually. To do this, search for Windows Update using Start.

Windows update.PNG

Edited by abacab
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9 minutes ago, abacab said:

Dude, with all respect, you are just 100% wrong about this.  I have been using Windows 10 Pro for 2.5 years, and Windows never updates until I ask it to check for updates.

There is a policy setting in "Group Policy Editor" that lets you completely 100% disable automatic updating, as well as the notifications.   I have never in 2.5 years had a Windows update that ran without me first clicking on "check for updates". Of course, I always take a full Macrium Reflect image before I push that button.

Group Policy Editor > Local Computer Policy > Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > All Settings > Configure Automatic Updates

1692478440_Windowsupdategrouppolicy.PNG.866a68dec29d24cbe1907c9186395a39.PNG

The text highlighted in blue in the image above explains how the policy works if it is set to "disabled".   I am quoting it here for clarity because it seems that embedded screen captures on this forum have a max width of 400 pixels. Too small to read.

 

 

 

If you're running Win10 Pro, you can absolutely disable all automatic updates including notifications.

You can do so via the Group Policy Editor... or by adding two Registry Entries.

Once implemented, you have to manually check, download/install all Win10 updates.

We've done this scores of times. 

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11 minutes ago, Jim Roseberry said:

 

If you're running Win10 Pro, you can absolutely disable all automatic updates including notifications.

You can do so via the Group Policy Editor... or by adding two Registry Entries.

Once implemented, you have to manually check, download/install all Win10 updates.

We've done this scores of times. 

Just curious but can you pick which updates to download?  I can't click which ones it's like all or nothing.

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20 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Just curious but can you pick which updates to download?  I can't click which ones it's like all or nothing.

You can't pick and choose from the Windows update screen anymore, but you can hide the ones you wish to avoid before checking. Once you check, you will open up the chute for anything that is not hidden from Windows to come rolling downhill, LOL!

Use the little MS utility "wushowhide" to hide unwanted updates.  I have saved a shortcut icon on my desktop for it.

EZ Tutorial for use here: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8280-hide-show-windows-updates-windows-10-a.html

Edited by abacab
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2 minutes ago, abacab said:

You can't pick and choose from the Windows update screen anymore, but you can hide the ones you wish to avoid before checking. Once you check, you will open up the chute for anything to come rolling downhill, LOL!

Use the little MS utility "wushowhide" to hide unwanted updates.  I have saved a shortcut icon on my desktop for it.

EZ Tutorial for use here: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8280-hide-show-windows-updates-windows-10-a.html

 So often that's the failed new release of Windows.

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I find the "wushowhide" utility very useful for allowing the monthly quality & security update to pass, but keeping the latest major feature update hidden until I am ready to upgrade. By hiding the feature  upgrade, I can keep it hidden for as long as I want.

MS will always quietly push out the next major feature updates when they consider them ready, so it is always good to run this utility before checking for any updates, so as not to get blindsided with a major update.

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6 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 So often that's the failed new release of Windows.

Yup, I generally hide the new releases for 6 months or more, until MS has published a few bug fix revisions.  That way I am not just another unsuspecting beta tester.

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9 minutes ago, abacab said:

Yup, I generally hide the new releases for 6 months or more, until MS has published a few bug fix revisions.  That way I am not just another unsuspecting beta tester.

  Meaning as they revise the bugs.  Most updates mess up my networking and the only fix is reverting to previous Windows.   The only reason why I see that these problems exist is that the OS is free and they cut the budget by using incompetent developers.  If there is one constant I see in the software world outside of DAW development is poor programming, especially the gaming industry.   Now Apple may be coming to the reality that their stuff is overpriced, that could put another dent in the PC industry.   Even Apple DAW users suffer from the evolving OS.  

Edited by kitekrazy

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6 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

 Apple DAW users suffer from the evolving OS.  

 

They suffer from a lot more than that! :  )

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9 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

  Meaning as they revise the bugs.  Most updates mess up my networking and the only fix is reverting to previous Windows.   The only reason why I see that these problems exist is that the OS is free and they cut the budget by using incompetent developers.  If there is one constant I see in the software world outside of DAW development is poor programming, especially the gaming industry.   Now Apple may be coming to the reality that their stuff is overpriced, that could put another dent in the PC industry.   Even Apple DAW users suffer from the evolving OS.  

That is why I always take a full Macrium Reflect image before any OS update/upgrade.  I don't trust MS anymore. But with that image in hand I can roll back to where I was before in just 35 minutes(1).  So if I don't like the update, or something has broken, no problemo! :D

(1) using an external USB3 drive restoring to an internal SSD SATA drive; image file size 132GB.

Edited by abacab

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Always make sure to have an up-to-date backup image file of the OS (prior to applying any major updates).

If you're under tight deadline or working on a major project, wait for a period of downtime to apply updates/etc.

Most times, there won't be an issue... but there's no reason to take chances.

Edited by Jim Roseberry
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To add some positivity to the negativity surrounding Windows update the first thing i do every morning when turning the computer on is hit the update button. I've done this since moving to 10 from 8.1, about 9 months after they released it. The only issue i've experienced is a BSOD from an outdated graphics drivers, the updating of which fixed the issue. 

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AH so I'm guessing that these are concessions admitting that I wasn't 100% wrong about saying that " YOU DO NOT HAVE A CHOICE AND ARE GOING TO HAVE TO UPDATE WINDOWS 10 WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT".

 Your only choices are whether you want to choose to do it "manually" or "automatically", Windows is STILL going to place your updates in a "Temp" file on your hard drive or SSD and it will stay there until you choose to install it. LoL.

 And yes, I have Windows Update set to tell me there are updates waiting for me to install, and it doesn't mention they are already sitting in a Temp File and always asks me if I'm ready to install them.

 Never ONCE has Windows Update stolen my identity, pass on a subliminal message to try to program me into killing my parents or go rogue and shoot up a school yard.

 It rarely gets in my way, so rare I can't remember the last time it did because I always leave my computers running "While I'm Sleeping" for Microsoft's famous "Patch Tuesday" cycles which they have been running for years now.

, And when I wake up, I reboot my computers, whether the tell me to or not, and go have breakfast.

 Sometimes on occasion an update will fail, but that will never stop my computer working properly so it's really no concern to me. By the time I wake up and I'm done with breakfast my entire studio network is up and running and ready for business.

 And while all Ya'all who like to pore over small print contract agreements and fret over your cunning abilities to stopping Windows from FIXING and updating ALL BY ITSELF, know this, that's telemetry in action, and...…………………....

STEEV is too busy running Delirium Studio, from office tasks to producing and making MUSIC to give a FAQ about fretting about having complete control over BS like this. And I don't chase after Unicorns either.

 I would also like to say right off the top that that I AM NOT a COMPUTER GENIOUS. 

 I'm just a guy who can solve all my computer problems by recognizing the difference between "Problems" and  "Conditions". And if I'm lucky enough to realize the differences quickly enough, I can find the time for my hobby, which is to actually work and jam and keep my chops and create my own music projects! :o)))))))))))

 YES!!!  And maybe, if I can figure out how to do it right (enough), I'll even have time for some real fun like post, share, and collaborate with like minded music artists on Bandlab.com.  YEAAA!!

 And I'm very serious about finding the time to have fun, and more times then not it can be as illusive as that Unicorn all Ya'Yawl computer genius control freaks be chasing and thinking you are going to catch by out smarting Microsoft and swapping out audio interfaces every year.. 🤣

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16 hours ago, abacab said:

You can't pick and choose from the Windows update screen anymore, but you can hide the ones you wish to avoid before checking. Once you check, you will open up the chute for anything that is not hidden from Windows to come rolling downhill, LOL!

Use the little MS utility "wushowhide" to hide unwanted updates.  I have saved a shortcut icon on my desktop for it.

EZ Tutorial for use here: https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/8280-hide-show-windows-updates-windows-10-a.html

BTW this will not stop updating a newer version of W10.

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To further clarify...

If you fully disable all automatic updates (including notifications), Win10 will not automatically download updates to a temp folder.

Nothing is executed without the user starting the process.

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