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Morten Saether

2021.09 Feedback

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Really nice addition to this month's update!

Re: New Export Dialog  - The only gripe I have is that the font and overall look isn't as sharp/consistent with the rest of Cakewalk... it looks like a draft. Also, the dialog box could've been more compact.

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5 hours ago, Toy said:

After posting on E.A.137, I verified it again.
Everything from 2021.06 to E.A.134 was working fine.
However, from E.A.137, it was not possible to export normally except for "buffer size: playback" and "real time bounce".

Ver 2021.09 cannot output normally, I would like to use E.A.134, which was the most stable, for the time being.

I think you may be confusing it with an issue that was fixed in the EA. There was a bug where in ASIO mode it was not respecting the bounce buffer size and defaulting to the playback buffer size. In the final release it will use the bounce buffer size unless it is set to "follow playback buffer".

If you are using a high bounce buffer size some synths do not handle it properly so this could be what you are seeing. If so set bounce buffer to "follow playback buffer"

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4 hours ago, Skyline_UK said:

I like to bounce my finished mixes down to a new track, which I solo and use for mastering, etc.   This bouncing down process now takes about twice as long.  Why is that, and can I alter any parameters or something to get back to previous efficiency?

@Skyline_UK
There should be no decrease in bounce speed. The only new step added is to flush effects tails. Please read the release notes there is a way to disable that if necessary.
In fact if you are bouncing the entire project it should be faster because we no longer duplicate the project in memory in that scenario.
Also check your audio buffer size. If its set low bounces will be slower unless you use the new bounce buffer size to set it to a  higher value. 

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Its impossible to understand looking at a screenshot. You will have to send the project file if this is a change in behavior and describe the steps you are taking. Most likely there is an audio routing issue in your project.

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New export features are all great. Really well-realised.

 

I have one smallish niggle though. Why doesn't hitting the enter key (when not in an input box) equal clicking "Export"?

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1 hour ago, Noel Borthwick said:

I think you may be confusing it with an issue that was fixed in the EA. There was a bug where in ASIO mode it was not respecting the bounce buffer size and defaulting to the playback buffer size. In the final release it will use the bounce buffer size unless it is set to "follow playback buffer".

If you are using a high bounce buffer size some synths do not handle it properly so this could be what you are seeing. If so set bounce buffer to "follow playback buffer"

Well, I didn't read the forum in detail because there was no problem in operation until EA134.
I'm confused, so I'll check it.

-Up to E.A.134, all "BOUNCE BUFFER SIZE" settings are invalid in ASIO. Actually, "PlayBack Size" was set.
pb.jpg.0008ba09464986243b12781f90581e21.jpg
-As a result of the setting being enabled in E.A.137, there are no options other than "PlayBack Size" in my plug-in.

Is this the right situation?

Edited by Toy

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Good afternoon!
I often use the Track Template insert.
Is it possible to save only the selected pair of tracks ( Audio + Midi) in the Track Template when working with any project, excluding the remaining tracks of the project. It would be very convenient not to create this pair of tracks in a new project, but after finding any preset of the instrument immediately from the current project, save these two tracks in the Track Template without leaving the project and without hitting other tracks of the project.
Sorry for the bad English, I write through a translator from Russian. I hope I managed to convey what I would like.

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1 hour ago, Toy said:

Well, I didn't read the forum in detail because there was no problem in operation until EA134.
I'm confused, so I'll check it.

-Up to E.A.134, all "BOUNCE BUFFER SIZE" settings are invalid in ASIO. Actually, "PlayBack Size" was set.
pb.jpg.0008ba09464986243b12781f90581e21.jpg
-As a result of the setting being enabled in E.A.137, there are no options other than "PlayBack Size" in my plug-in.

Is this the right situation?

>>Up to E.A.134, all "BOUNCE BUFFER SIZE" settings are invalid in ASIO. 

Yes this was a bug that was fixed

>>-As a result of the setting being enabled in E.A.137, there are no options other than "PlayBack Size" in my plug-in.
I'm not sure what you mean. In the latest release you can either use playback size or any other buffer size. If you leave it at playback size it uses the driver latency setting otherwise its whatever value you specify. As described in the release notes depending on plugins used, use conservative buffer sizes such as up to 50 msec. The only benefit to larger sizes is to speed up export time. 

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53 minutes ago, Александр Кулаев said:

Good afternoon!
I often use the Track Template insert.
Is it possible to save only the selected pair of tracks ( Audio + Midi) in the Track Template when working with any project, excluding the remaining tracks of the project. It would be very convenient not to create this pair of tracks in a new project, but after finding any preset of the instrument immediately from the current project, save these two tracks in the Track Template without leaving the project and without hitting other tracks of the project.
Sorry for the bad English, I write through a translator from Russian. I hope I managed to convey what I would like.

Please keep this thread related to the 2021,09 release specific features. For other general inquiries create new threads.

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9 hours ago, msmcleod said:

Spaces in your filename perhaps? 

You could try using quotes for the %I and %O, command line parameters e.g:

lame -V4 --vbr-new -m j "%I" "%O"
 

I tried the command line with quotes and it still didn't work. What do you mean by Spaces in your filename. The output mp3 file created does always have spaces and that's never been a problem. For an experiment I tried a simple output mp3 file name with no spaces and got the same error message. 

Keep in mind I've been using the same mp3 External Encoder presets for about 15 years with perfect results until this new 2021.09 version.

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6 hours ago, Skyline_UK said:

I like to bounce my finished mixes down to a new track, which I solo and use for mastering, etc.   This bouncing down process now takes about twice as long.  Why is that, and can I alter any parameters or something to get back to previous efficiency?

I do this as well, and tested an old project in all three of: the last release of Platinum 17.10, CbB EA build 137, and the final release build 141. All three took the same 47-49 seconds to complete.

So your issue may be project-specific. I don't really notice that it makes a big difference in most cases, but what is your Bounce Buffer size? I have mine set at 20ms -  carried over from when it was only accessible via the parameter in AUD.INI.

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Cosmetic issue in the marker view:
In the marker view, click ”Start Export" marker I set and then click [Shift] + "End Export" marker to select an export range. (The "End Export" marker is at the end point of the song data) And then open the Audio Export dialog box and click "Add Task to Queue", the "End Export" marker selection in the marker view is deselected.
However, the range selection in the track view is unchanged and remains selected to the end point of the song.

908688700_UnselectedMarker.jpg.73f47771813ad9e5f9100fc416956299.jpg

So this is just a cosmetic problem in the marker view and seems does not affect the actual export range but It's confusing users, I guess. (At least I was confused.)

P.S. I prefer using markers to arrangers, sorry. 😆

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A very sweet update!

  1. Thank you so much for implementing file import to a single track with CTRL+SHIFT drag'n'drop!
  2. And all export features are certainly welcome. Haven't really tried much of it yet, but creating timestamped versions alone is worth it!

Some further related improvements that I would highly welcome:

  1. Remember the checkboxes for the Sources in the export preset. I typically export using Buses as a source category and have to deselect all buses first and then select the Master bus. So for me, saving the sources selection in the export preset is something I still really miss. This also currently prevents from using the Quick Export menu in the Control Bar.
    image.thumb.png.334f2249c6fec50c39595c17d533011b.png
  2. Since %PROJECTFOLDER%\Audio Export is the default location for audio export, I think it'd be an easy and useful feature to add "Reveal Project Folder in File Explorer" item to the Project Menu. This would be a quick way to all your project exports after the export completed toast notification is dismissed.
Edited by Helene Kolpakova
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@Helene Kolpakova 
Re 1 the sources are per project while export presets are global. So this isn't really possible without having a concept of per project presets which seems a bit overkill. I'm not sure I understand your workflow and why you need it to remember that state though. We could possibly consider remembering the selected sources state for the duration of the editing session but I'm not sure how useful that would be.

Re 2 its already available. Go to the media browser tab and choose the "Project Audio Export Folder" preset. That should take you there automatically.
 

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2 hours ago, Noel Borthwick said:

>>Up to E.A.134, all "BOUNCE BUFFER SIZE" settings are invalid in ASIO. 

Yes this was a bug that was fixed

>>-As a result of the setting being enabled in E.A.137, there are no options other than "PlayBack Size" in my plug-in.
I'm not sure what you mean. In the latest release you can either use playback size or any other buffer size. If you leave it at playback size it uses the driver latency setting otherwise its whatever value you specify. As described in the release notes depending on plugins used, use conservative buffer sizes such as up to 50 msec. The only benefit to larger sizes is to speed up export time. 


BUF10-50.jpg.55d41a8aaa93d056b9086efb226e050d.jpg

Bounce Buffer Size 10 MS -50 MS export result.
It was clear that there was such a gap.
I haven't tried a single digit.

You can see that it is faster or slower when the settings are other than playback.
If the value is higher than this, the deviation width will increase.
* BUF.10 is not normal and some tracks are in fast timing.

Although it is a deviation when setting this buffer, it seems difficult to adjust because the result seems to change slightly each time.

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@Toy there is no difference between setting bounce buffer size or manually or changing the audio latency to a higher number and redoing the bounce. Behind the scenes it has the same effect except its not changing the driver latency.
If you are seeing differences its due to the plugins in your project and out of our control. You can repeat this test by changing the playback buffer size and redoing the bounce each time with the default "PlayBack Size" option selected.

i.e. Do this test:
Export with bounce buffer size set to 20
Export with playback buffer size set to 20 and bounce set to Follow playback  

Compare the two wave files. They should be identical assuming you set the buffer size the same

Another thing to try:
Bypass all your plugins and do the test again. If the audio aligns then the issue is caused by one of the plugins. You can use a process of elimination to find the problem.

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16 minutes ago, Toy said:

You can see that it is faster or slower when the settings are other than playback.
If the value is higher than this, the deviation width will increase.

This looks like what happens when rendering MIDI through a 32-bit VSTi using Bitbridge at higher buffer settings. An empty buffer of audio is prepended to the rendered wav. It's not noticeable at lower playback buffer sizes, but gets to be a problem when using high offline buffer sizes. This is a longstanding problem with Bitbridge. The 3rd party JBridge does not have this issue.

Edited by David Baay

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2 hours ago, Milton Sica said:

If you change it to the folder you want at the time of export, that folder will remain as the project's.

This does not seem to be the case.

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3 hours ago, Helene Kolpakova said:

I typically export using Buses as a source category and have to deselect all buses first and then select the Master bus.

You can quickly deselect all buses by holding down CTRL+SHIFT and clicking any bus, then simply click the Master bus.

Another solution is to solo the Master bus. You can also save the export settings as a task. The track/bus selection state is saved with each task.

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2 hours ago, David Baay said:

This looks like what happens when rendering MIDI through a 32-bit VSTi using Bitbridge at higher buffer settings. An empty buffer of audio is prepended to the rendered wav. It's not noticeable at lower playback buffer sizes, but gets to be a problem when using high offline buffer sizes. This is a longstanding problem with Bitbridge. The 3rd party JBridge does not have this issue.

Possibly assuming he is using 32 bit plugins. I did a test rendering a large project with over a hundred tracks and a hundred plugin instances. I bounced the whole project to a new track with a buffer size of 10 msec. Then I did the same test at 350 msec.
Not only did the two renders align perfectly, they null cancelled when I phase inverted. So if there is a problem is isn't in the actual bounce code.

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