Clicks/Pops in audio export - question

[Colin Nicholls]

I'm getting random click/pop artifacts in my WAV audio exported from Cakewalk by Bandlab.

It doesn't happen very often that I can tell, but I have some quiet sections where, almost inevitably, I hear a tick or pop in the exported WAV where there is none in the source project. If I re-export, the defect goes away, or appears in a different location. Honestly, I can only detect it if it happens in a quiet region, it might be happening more often.

Question: Does Cakewalk use the audio interface to perform audio export? Will changing the ASIO settings affect audio export?

[Will.]

52 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

Question: Does Cakewalk use the audio interface to perform audio export? Will changing the ASIO settings affect audio export?

It does not. The only job of an audio interface is to let you get audio signals into the computer and out to your speakers or headphones. Whatever happens in mixing is entirely in the DAW.

Perhaps a long tail from a reverb?  I've uploaded a video on a bug where the groove clip feature does not cut of the notes by rounding the clip out - check that too. Oh-boy! I'm trying to think of possible causes - what about clips that has been bounced to a track | Or |freeze track fade out?  Could be something thay is tailing into the silent part that gets cut of? 

Headache. 

[Colin Nicholls]

2 minutes ago, Will_Kaydo said:

Perhaps a long tail from a reverb?  I've uploaded a video on a bug where the groove clip feature does not cut of the notes by rounding the clip out - check that too. Oh-boy! I'm trying to think of possible causes - what about clips that has been bounced to a track | Or |freeze track fade out?  Could be something thay is tailing into the silent part that gets cut of? 

Headache. 

Thanks, Will. You'd think those types of things would be consistently found in the same location in the exported audio, though, wouldn't you? And I can't hear them when I play the project in Cakewalk. They show up in the export. Yes, headache!

[Will.]

22 minutes ago, Colin Nicholls said:

Thanks, Will. You'd think those types of things would be consistently found in the same location in the exported audio, though, wouldn't you? And I can't hear them when I play the project in Cakewalk. They show up in the export. Yes, headache!

What I normally do is - I load SPAN into the reverb buss and a gain plugin crack that up all the way to listen to how long the tail is after I put in my levels on the reverb. 

I hear what you say - but even with the KRKs at a steady calibrated level - some tails can't be heard without crancking the Reverb buss. 

Heres something to try: Render every track as stems and play it back in Windows. When you hear one locate the same track in CbB, with both effects bypassed on and off. 

[Bristol_Jonesey]

What's your buffer size?

[Colin Nicholls]

11 minutes ago, Bristol_Jonesey said:

What's your buffer size?

I bumped it up to 1024 during my most recent test; still detected glitches.

Currently I'm testing with a different audio interface to compare.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Colin Nicholls

[John Vere]

Just curious What are the 2 interfaces your testing?

[Colin Nicholls]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

What are the 2 interfaces your testing?

Listed in my sig. After I disabled the ECHO Layla3G in the Device Manager, I switched on the Focusrite USB and re-tested the export. My first thought was that this solved the issue, but then I noticed a glitch in one of the track exports, right at the end. 

Background: I have five projects, each being one movement in a suite. I export these to 44.2/24 WAV, and use a sixth project to combine them into a single continuous composition, applying level balancing and a final polish, multiband compression to -14 LUFS. This is exported at 44.2/16. 

I also export each track separately (with the same processing) to give me 5 additional mastered WAV files for each movement.

So, that's 11 export operations. I have listened to the end results several times over checking for glitches, and quite fatigued at this point. 

However: Having the Focusrite instead of the ECHO did seem to be much less prone to glitching. As I mentioned, I did get one glitch right at the end (so frustrating!) but eventually I managed to get a full set of glitch-free exports, and that will be going up on BandCamp later this week. So, job done. 

With that project out of the way, I'll be listening more carefully in future projects to see if I can find a pattern. 

[John Vere]

As said an audio interface has nothing to do with the export. You could use your on board audio and get exactly the same quality file. 
 

Have you checked your system with Latency Monitor?  Do you have background apps running that could interrupt you processing?  

[Xoo]

Are you pulling samples in (eg. drum VSTi)?  If so, is there any way to tell the VSTi to run in "bounce" mode or similar?  Does it also glitch if you export in realtime?

[SVSX]

Some years ago, i discovered a issue in combination with UAD Plugins, where my rendered tracks had crackles too. I used to render in fast mode. When i switched to realtime rendering, my issues where gone.  Later i found out, that it has to do with the checkmark "Sonar compatibility mode" wich i had enabled. Now everything is fine.  Maybe your problem is related to this?

Edited August 10, 2021 by SVSX

[Colin Nicholls]

2 hours ago, John Vere said:

As said an audio interface has nothing to do with the export. You could use your on board audio and get exactly the same quality file. 
 

Have you checked your system with Latency Monitor?  Do you have background apps running that could interrupt you processing?  

Not disagreeing, but have you tried exporting audio without an audio interface?

Good idea about the latency and background tasks. Time for an audit.

[John Vere]

Yes I work a lot on my second computer which uses on board audio. I often export to make proof CD to play in the car.
 

 I used to be a none believer in on board audio but since WASAPI mode came along I get very good performance on at least this particular computer. I have 4 Interfaces but I found I don’t need one for this set up. I never record in that room so no need for one. it confuses other family members if I have complicated systems hooked up in the office. 
 

But crackles are usually due to CPU and buffer overloads. To many plug ins and VST instruments can do that easily. That’s why many people freeze up as much as they can as you can have a zillion audio tracks as long as there’s no active processing 

[Colin Nicholls]

1 hour ago, John Vere said:

Yes I work a lot on my second computer which uses on board audio

Not what I meant. I mean, with Cakewalk indicating that there is no audio interface available to it.

[John Vere]

Not sure I understand what you mean?  You turn off your interface and choose WASAPI mode.  I guess some people totally disable the on board audio, I used to but that was back in the dark ages 😎

Im not sure Cakewalk would even run in that case. 

[Colin Nicholls]

2 minutes ago, John Vere said:

Im not sure Cakewalk would even run in that case. 

It runs. It complains there are no audio devices. But you can open a project and even run an export. It looks like it is working but the exported file will be 4kb and empty.

So, you know, I figure exporting DOES use the audio interface and therefore changing it might result in, um, different results.

[Will.]

6 hours ago, Colin Nicholls said:

Not disagreeing, but have you tried exporting audio without an audio interface?

Plenty of times! Same result. An interface has absolutely NOTHING to do with your export - that's the work of your DAW's render[ing] encoder. 

[John Vere]

Where the confusion comes from is Cakewalks audio engine needs to find an audio driver or nothing happens. It can’t run. it’s an audio program after all. 
 

It’s the engine and processing that renders the export data not the actual driver, but the engine does need the driver to run. 
 

@Noel Borthwick  could hopefully shed some light on this and correct me if I’m wrong . 

My understanding is the audio engine runs exactly the same in all driver modes. The only difference I’m aware of is the timing offset. Only ASIO reports Round Trip Latency accurately and therefore adjusts the timing offset correctly. 
 

At this point in time cakewalk seems optimized for ASIO and WASAPI modes. 

[Rick Lang]

On 8/9/2021 at 7:29 PM, Colin Nicholls said:

I'm getting random click/pop artifacts in my WAV audio exported from Cakewalk by Bandlab.

It doesn't happen very often that I can tell, but I have some quiet sections where, almost inevitably, I hear a tick or pop in the exported WAV where there is none in the source project. If I re-export, the defect goes away, or appears in a different location. Honestly, I can only detect it if it happens in a quiet region, it might be happening more often.

Question: Does Cakewalk use the audio interface to perform audio export? Will changing the ASIO settings affect audio export?

I have the exact same issue as you Colin, and have had for quite some time. I also saw the same thing happening Terry in this thread from early 2021.

As stated, completely dumbfounded why this is happening during export, listening back to the WAV (44/24). I have a fairly well built i7 computer with 32 GB RAM, all SSD equipped, RME UCX interface with the latest drivers, no internet, AV or any other processes disturbing things. Now trying to export a finished, mixed and mastered  progrock-tune only containing roughly 75 tracks, and the computer/RAM or HD isn't sweating. Chirps still random on the export.

I will probably go REAPER from now on I'm afraid. After 20 years.

[Colin Nicholls]

56 minutes ago, Rick Lang said:

I have the exact same issue as you Colin, and have had for quite some time. I also saw the same thing happening Terry in this thread from early 2021.

As stated, completely dumbfounded why this is happening during export, listening back to the WAV (44/24). I have a fairly well built i7 computer with 32 GB RAM, all SSD equipped, RME UCX interface with the latest drivers, no internet, AV or any other processes disturbing things. Now trying to export a finished, mixed and mastered  progrock-tune only containing roughly 75 tracks, and the computer/RAM or HD isn't sweating. Chirps still random on the export.

I will probably go REAPER from now on I'm afraid. After 20 years.

Hi Rick. I wish I could say the problem went away, but I have no data. I haven't worked on a major project since the one described above. (A full-time job will do that to you, sigh)

I totally understand your frustration. No one should feel the need to apologize for using different DAWs, if they are able. I myself have Studio One although I've never attempted the complexity of projects that can achieve with Sonar. (I just don't need the hassle of becoming an expert in S1). If you do switch to Reaper for your next project, please do check back here and let us know how you fared. So often we see posts here about people switching but never any closure.